Battles, Airstrikes in Pakistan Kill 250

[EagleEyes]

This is not a thread for discussing India for god sakes. No matter how much you discuss, it doesn't matter. They will not stop killing people. Get it right. The occupation will continue, murder, and rape will continue. Lets STOP discussing this where it is not meant to be discussed.

Thanks!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

With respect to the reports regarding excessive civilian casualties from the bombing, there are some contradicting statements coming out - on one hand we are told that 90 percent of the residents of the area had left, and then they were all shopping in a Bazaar for Iftaar?

The other is the veracity of the claims themselves, considering statements like these:

"Also on Monday midnight, the hujra (male guesthouse) of tribesman Asadullah in Esori village was struck by a missile. Villagers said the missile was fired from CIA-operated pilotless spy plane but there was no evidence to back the claim."

No doubt there have been civilian casualties, and that is extremely unfortunate, but I doubt the claims being made by these "sources" are completely true - according to whom the government has hardly killed a single militant, only innocent villagers, while suffering exponentially more casualties itself. The MO is not new, the Taliban have been doing this these past years in Afghanistan as well, exaggerating civilian and NATO casualties, while outright rejecting their own.

 

[Flintlock]

Agnostic, the sources are usually AP and Reuters, who base their reports on eyewitness accounts and on-the-ground reporting I presume.

I doubt that they are working for Taliban.
If you are arguing that the eyewitnsses themselves are concocting information, then I don't think anything concrete can be concluded from that, since there is no way to verify it. We have to trust the press.....we don't have a choice.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

This is not a thread for discussing India for god sakes. No matter how much you discuss, it doesn't matter. They will not stop killing people. Get it right. The occupation will continue, murder, and rape will continue. Lets STOP discussing this where it is not meant to be discussed.

Thanks!

That is a opinion that need not be true, if you don't mind my saying so.

I can but would prefer not to indulge in this display of perceived atrocities since the same could be trotted out for Pakistan, and that too, world wide. It will lead to nothing substantial towards the discussion.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Agnostic, the sources are usually AP and Reuters, who base their reports on eyewitness accounts and on-the-ground reporting I presume.

I doubt that they are working for Taliban.
If you are arguing that the eyewitnsses themselves are concocting information, then I don't think anything concrete can be concluded from that, since there is no way to verify it. We have to trust the press.....we don't have a choice.

I never suggested that the AP and Reuters were "working for the Taliban", this sort of fits in with your inference that I was suggesting that Pakistan "inform" the CIA and US of Indian activities in FATA.

The press is doing their job as best they can, without having access to the area, a policy I believe the PA should reconsider to make the situation more transparent. Right now we have conflicting claims and really no way to tell which is true, other than by picking out inconsistencies, and improbabilities in the reports.

 

[Spring Onion]

Agnostic, the sources are usually AP and Reuters, who base their reports on eyewitness accounts and on-the-ground reporting I presume..

Dear i know how AP and Reuters work there in Tribal areas so lets not rely on them.
Actually there is no access to them in the fighting area. So you can imagine who are their eye witnesses

We have to trust the press.....we don't have a choice.

in that case trust the genuion ones not the foreign who have no access to that area.

 

[Bull]

Which was the last ontopic post here???

Anyways,
The action taken by Pakistan to deal with these relegious(islam) extremists is right, however the way they have selected i dont agree with. With such a wild action that has caused such amount of collateral damage you can bet that ranks of the extremists would have swelled and not dwindled.

I have read a couple of reports that clearly stated that the unity aong tribes isnt that strong, mutual suspicion and mistrust do exist, why doesnt Pakistan try to take advantage of it?

 

[Bull]

So sir i rather Support a Sane way to handle the situation by

1. Go All out against Al-Qaeda
2. Do not drag Pashtuns and elements that are not responsible for the mess.
3. Hold talks with Pashtuns who are the real party to the conflict.

You mean Pashtuns would be ready for talks after such a high handed approach by Islamabad? Even more ferocious air attacks by USAF hasnt done anything to control extremists in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I seriously doubt the intention of Islamabad in going with such an approach as Mushraff himself has in earlier cases took exception to air attacks as a way of dealing with extremists.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Jana,

I like you and so no comments from me.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Jana,

So you are a NS and Mullah supporter!

Your Pashtun anger is showing!

I don't hold it against you. I would be equally wild if my home and hearth and my daily life is dictated by the accuracy of air strikes!

Which pashtun are you talking about?

The ones in Afghanistan, the ones in the Tribal areas, the ones in Balochistan, the ones in Karachi, the ones in Punjab or the ones in the NWFP?

This is not a war against the "pashtun" as much as India would like it to be considered that way, it is a war against extremist groups who have killed vastly more "pashtun" themselves, than the unfortunate number in the past few days.

But you seem quite intent on dragging "all the pashtun" into this conflict.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You mean Pashtuns would be ready for talks after such a high handed approach by Islamabad? Even more ferocious air attacks by USAF hasnt done anything to control extremists in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I seriously doubt the intention of Islamabad in going with such an approach as Mushraff himself has in earlier cases took exception to air attacks as a way of dealing with extremists.

For gods sake, even Wikipedia offers better and more accurate language than you and Salim. The pashtun are all over Pakistan, and the fighting is going on with a small number of residents of the Tribal belt, not even all, so it is completely inaccurate to refer to the militants as "pashtun".

With respect to the bombings, and the potential for a cessation in dialog, that has already happened. The FC and PA has been pussyfooting around the militants, reacting only when attacked (primarily the FC), negotiations with the militants have been carried out, and the only thing that has happened is that they have gotten bolder.

This isn't a simple "give me roads, schools and hospitals" demand - what is being fought for is the imposition of an ideology whose cruelty, if imposed, would render minuscule, the damage resulting from this war.

The Taliban have articulated their demands -a withdrawal of "foreign forces and their puppets" and " an imposition of an Islamic constitution" which they just released. Reading the salient points of that document leaves no doubt that it is a demand that must never be accepted.

 

[Munir]

If they murder soldiers by a such cruel way. If they are worser then a virus. If they are not intrested in Pakistan. If they use ideology to confront Pakistan and the world... What else is left then eradication of such people?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Which pashtun are you talking about?

The ones in Afghanistan, the ones in the Tribal areas, the ones in Balochistan, the ones in Karachi, the ones in Punjab or the ones in the NWFP?

This is not a war against the "pashtun" as much as India would like it to be considered that way, it is a war against extremist groups who have killed vastly more "pashtun" themselves, than the unfortunate number in the past few days.

But you seem quite intent on dragging "all the pashtun" into this conflict.

It is a tete a tete with Jana.

You won't understand!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

For gods sake, even Wikipedia offers better and more accurate language than you and Salim. The pashtun are all over Pakistan, and the fighting is going on with a small number of residents of the Tribal belt, not even all, so it is completely inaccurate to refer to the militants as "pashtun".

With respect to the bombings, and the potential for a cessation in dialog, that has already happened. The FC and PA has been pussyfooting around the militants, reacting only when attacked (primarily the FC), negotiations with the militants have been carried out, and the only thing that has happened is that they have gotten bolder.

This isn't a simple "give me roads, schools and hospitals" demand - what is being fought for is the imposition of an ideology whose cruelty, if imposed, would render minuscule, the damage resulting from this war.

The Taliban have articulated their demands -a withdrawal of "foreign forces and their puppets" and " an imposition of an Islamic constitution" which they just released. Reading the salient points of that document leaves no doubt that it is a demand that must never be accepted.

Accept it and be done with this thread, if that is what you want!

With respect to the bombings, and the potential for a cessation in dialog, that has already happened. The FC and PA has been pussyfooting around the militants, reacting only when attacked (primarily the FC), negotiations with the militants have been carried out, and the only thing that has happened is that they have gotten bolder.

Have you a better solution?

Let's discuss that.

It is easy to damn those who have to implement, like the govt and the army!

Sitting in air conditioned comfort is far different from being in the dust and grime of reality!

 

[Awesome]

Which was the last ontopic post here???

Anyways,
The action taken by Pakistan to deal with these relegious(islam) extremists is right, however the way they have selected i dont agree with. With such a wild action that has caused such amount of collateral damage you can bet that ranks of the extremists would have swelled and not dwindled.

I have read a couple of reports that clearly stated that the unity aong tribes isnt that strong, mutual suspicion and mistrust do exist, why doesnt Pakistan try to take advantage of it?

I don't support that view.

I agree with the airstrikes. Pakistan has on numerous occasions offered amnesty to members of these tribes who want to switch sides. Every man, woman and child in some of these tribes is armed to the teeth. They should be fighting with us when we come in through land forces instead they have been found providing sanctuary to these militants.

We have lost the war in FATA and now we are just fighting for the land. There's no magic wand out there that would convert this militant culture overnight. The tribals still wishing to side with us, can do so. Just walk over and shoot anyone that tries to stop you.