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Bashir (Sudan): A military base on the Red Sea, SU-35, SU-30 and S-300

Since a while we haven’t seen such arrogant and ignorant posts....

This can show every one how the MB government of Sudane make their people feel about Egypt.....he is talking about Halayeb triangle which is In the north of 22 line (which is the Egyptian territories..... during the ruling king Farouk ( King of Egypt and Sudan)...he let Halayeb Triangle rulled administratively from Khartoum because of the bedwens and their animals enters that area (not to make it difficult to them to move through boarders ).

And things go that way until Sudanese terrorism supporting MB government involved in assasination trial of the Egyptain presedent.

Also you are taking about this Egyptain territory of Halayeb and you divided your country and let Ethiopia occupying your eastern territories and killing your farmers.
https://www.dabangasudan.org/en/all-news/article/ethiopian-gunmen-occupy-eastern-sudanese-farms

Sudanese civil war was harmful to Egypt....as we need stable, strong and independent neighbors .....
Not about 2 to 3 millions refugees....still about 1 million in Egypt now.

I feel petty for you my fellow Sudanese brothers and sisters....you have some day a special place in the hearts and minds of Egyptians....but most of you follow the MB government of you.....

Finally....the Egyptian people are shocked now from what they are seeing and hearing from Sudanese MB government and those racist , offensive and ignorant Sudanese voices which headed here or there....and the Egyptian people haven’t said there word yet.

Dont be surprised I told you before significant portion of Northern Sudanese people hate Egypt and wish to wipe it from the face of the earth if it was in their hands.

To be specific Sudanese Arabs are the ones who hate Egypt and they form a minority in Northern Sudan but rule it by force . These Sudanese Arabs mostly come from Khartoum , Aljazeera and Sudanese states bordering Egypt .

The well mannered Sudanese you meet are usually from Ethnic African tribes living in Western , East and southern provinces in North Sudan . People in South Sudan also respect Egypt and most of their officials studies in Cairo .

The Sudanese Arabs from northern provinces in North Sudan are tribal , extremist and racist against each other and against their fellow non Arab Sudanese . You can add to this culture over 30 years of MB brainwashing through media and education outlet then you get one of the worst creatures you can ever imagine .

Egyptian government and secret intelligence services understand this fact about Sudanese Arabs and Egypt should always be ready for any action against this country if they decide to back track from 1959 nile deal .

Our river is not a local swimming pool, we can use it how we please. We are not building the dam to harm the upper Nile.

Sorry but this is an international river owned by All countries that it passes through for thousands of years .
I have never seen China cutting river from India and Pakistan or USA cutting Colorado river from Mexico . All these Countries have built dams for Electric power generation without any issues .

The problem is not about that Dam but rather the filling period and water flow that would be allowed after building it .
Acting stupid will not get you any benefit and everyone will lose whether Egypt , Sudan and Ethiopia .
 
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Dont be surprised I told you before significant portion of Northern Sudanese people hate Egypt and wish to wipe it from the face of the earth if it was in their hands.

To be specific Sudanese Arabs are the ones who hate Egypt and they form a minority in Northern Sudan but rule it by force . These Sudanese Arabs mostly come from Khartoum , Aljazeera and Sudanese states bordering Egypt .

The well mannered Sudanese you meet are usually from Ethnic African tribes living in Western , East and southern provinces in North Sudan . People in South Sudan also respect Egypt and most of their officials studies in Cairo .

The Sudanese Arabs from northern provinces in North Sudan are tribal , extremist and racist against each other and against their fellow non Arab Sudanese . You can add to this culture over 30 years of MB brainwashing through media and education outlet then you get one of the worst creatures you can ever imagine .

Egyptian government and secret intelligence services understand this fact about Sudanese Arabs and Egypt should always be ready for any action against this country if they decide to back track from 1959 nile deal .

One thing is to dislike whatever regime that is in power (in this case Omar al-Bashir) but another is to write such blatant nonsense and make a character assassination of the 20 million or so Sudanese Arabs.

Sudanese Arabs are some of the most friendly people out there and are widely known as very hospitable, friendly and warm people in the Arab world. KSA is home to a significant Sudanese Arab community and I can without a doubt in my voice say that they are one of the best behaved and most friendly expat communities in KSA.

You should not brush all of them (no, they are not a minority in Sudan), with the same brush due to leadership. It is not the fault of the average Sudanese Arab that Al-Bashir is in power. He is very much universally disliked by informed Sudanese because his regime has amounted to little in the past 3 (!) decades. Just like we should not blame past dictators in Egypt (Gamal Abdel Nasser etc.) on the Egyptian people or elsewhere in the Arab world.

Fact of the matter is that most leaderships in not only the Arab world but the entire Muslim and developing world are bad by large (if not very bad), with a few exceptions among them.

As for hating Egyptians, that is also nonsense. Southern Egyptians and Northern Sudanese are more or less identical people. It is common for both parties to have relatives on both sides of the border. Not to mention the Nubians on both sides of the border.

Let's not try to get carried away here. Both leaderships of Egypt and Sudan have made mistakes in the past, and although I too agree that Sudan's MB government bears the blunt of the blame, we should not fall down to this level.

Lastly no sane Arab hates other Arab people or countries. Today relations between KSA and Qatar, Bahrain and Qatar, UAE and Qatar are at an all-time low but which sane person is going to say that Qataris hate Saudi Arabians, Bahrainis, Emiratis and vice versa? Who would dare to say such a nonsense thing without being ridiculed?

Likewise people in Gaza (average person) does not hate Egypt either just because they are ruled by Hamas. Nor vice versa for that matter. We should not allow a minority of loudmouths to destroy relations between brotherly people. We are all Arabs and we have enough of outside enemies as it is today. Do we really need to become each others enemies as well? I am just asking as it seems to be the agenda of some.

@Ghandour55

Welcome to the forum brother. One thing is to have disagreements that those in power have contributed to, another thing is to remember the essentials which is that we are all in the same boat as Arabs and thus brothers and sisters that should wish the best for each other and cooperate rather than the opposite, even more so as neighbors. KSA borders both Egypt and Sudan (only the small Red Sea separates us) and we have religious, linguistic, ancestral, Islamic, pre-Islamic and tribal/clan/family ties to both countries. We wish the best for both peoples and countries as well. I hope that KSA can serve as a mediator between Egypt and Sudan seeing the historical ties between KSA and Egypt and the normalization of ties between KSA and Sudan.

Also don't take attacks against your country or leadership personally. I too struggle at this at times despite being here this long. When the criticism comes from your own Arab brethren, mostly that criticism is not out of hatred. Of course for some it is but they are overall a small minority and mostly ignorant and uniformed people who do not see the bigger picture. That's the realization that I have come to.
 
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One thing is to dislike whatever regime that is in power (in this case Omar al-Bashir) but another is to write such blatant nonsense and make a character assassination of the 20 million or so Sudanese Arabs.

Sudanese Arabs are some of the most friendly people out there and are widely known as very hospitable, friendly and warm people in the Arab world. KSA is home to a significant Sudanese Arab community and I can without a doubt in my voice say that they are one of the best behaved and most friendly expat communities in KSA.

You should not brush all of them (no, they are not a minority in Sudan), with the same brush due to leadership. It is not the fault of the average Sudanese Arab that Al-Bashir is in power. He is very much universally disliked by informed Sudanese because his regime has amounted to little in the past 3 (!) decades. Just like we should not blame past dictators in Egypt (Gamal Abdel Nasser etc.) on the Egyptian people or elsewhere in the Arab world.

Fact of the matter is that most leaderships in not only the Arab world but the entire Muslim and developing world are bad by large (if not very bad), with a few exceptions among them.

As for hating Egyptians, that is also nonsense. Southern Egyptians and Northern Sudanese are more or less identical people. It is common for both parties to have relatives on both sides of the border. Not to mention the Nubians on both sides of the border.

Let's not try to get carried away here. Both leaderships of Egypt and Sudan have made mistakes in the past, and although I too agree that Sudan's MB government bears the blunt of the blame, we should not fall down to this level.

Lastly no sane Arab hates other Arab people or countries. Today relations between KSA and Qatar, Bahrain and Qatar, UAE and Qatar are at an all-time low but which sane person is going to say that Qataris hate Saudi Arabians, Bahrainis, Emiratis and vice versa? Who would dare to say such a nonsense thing without being ridiculed?

Likewise people in Gaza (average person) does not hate Egypt either just because they are ruled by Hamas. Nor vice versa for that matter. We should not allow a minority of loudmouths to destroy relations between brotherly people. We are all Arabs and we have enough of outside enemies as it is today. Do we really need to become each others enemies as well? I am just asking as it seems to be the agenda of some.

@Ghandour55

Welcome to the forum brother. One thing is to have disagreements that those in power have contributed to, another thing is to remember the essentials which is that we are all in the same boat as Arabs and thus brothers and sisters that should wish the best for each other and cooperate rather than the opposite, even more so as neighbors. KSA borders both Egypt and Sudan (only the small Red Sea separates us) and we have religious, linguistic, ancestral, Islamic, pre-Islamic and tribal/clan/family ties to both countries. We wish the best for both peoples and countries as well. I hope that KSA can serve as a mediator between Egypt and Sudan seeing the historical ties between KSA and Egypt and the normalization of ties between KSA and Sudan.

Also don't take attacks against your country or leadership personally. I too struggle at this at times despite being here this long. When the criticism comes from your own Arab brethren, mostly that criticism is not out of hatred. Of course for some it is but they are overall a small minority and mostly ignorant and uniformed people who do not see the bigger picture. That's the realization that I have come to.

My friend I Visited Sudan 6 times before and I have alot of Northern Sudanese friends from Darfur , East Sudan and Nubians from Northern region they all complain about the racism they face at the hand of the racist people in Khartoum , Aljazeera ,river nile and Sennar states .

Racism is a big issue in Sudan and its the main reason behind south sudan succeeding and why more states in Northern Sudan are seeking independence .

I did not accuse 30 Million Sudanese , the ones I am referring to are a minority that is barely 5 million similar to the alawite minority in Syria .

Read more about the Janjaweed crimes in Darfur and how many innocent Sudanese civilians were killed by these criminals .
 
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My friend I Visited Sudan 6 times before and I have alot of Northern Sudanese friends from Darfur , East Sudan and Nubians from Northern region they all complain about the racism they face at the hand of the racist people in Khartoum , Aljazeera ,river nile and Sennar states .

Racism is a big issue in Sudan and its the main reason behind south sudan succeeding and why more states in Northern Sudan are seeking independence .

I did not accuse 30 Million Sudanese , the ones I am referring to are a minority that is barely 5 million similar to the alawite minority in Syria .

Read more about the Janjaweed crimes in Darfur and how many innocent Sudanese civilians were killed by these criminals .

Brother, racism is a problem in Sudan indeed but it is a problem in Egypt as well and most if not all Arab and MENA countries. Of course there are worse countries out there than others but we need to accept this being an issue not only in Sudan. Luckily this is less common among the youth nowadays.

I am by no means a supporter of the Sudanese regime. At all. However I do believe that it was good that KSA and Sudan normalized their relations again because I rather prefer a fellow Arab nation and neighbor (not an irrelevant country if measured by population, size, resources, potential, history etc.) to be under the "Arab umbrella" rather than manipulated by the Iranian Mullah's.

As for the ethnic and tribal rivalries in Sudan, sadly all parties have committed crimes. Janjaweed are a terrorist group by all accounts however anti-government militias in Darfur and in South Sudanese are not innocent lambs either and we can all see what they have accomplished since their independence in 2011. It's a 100 times bigger mess than Sudan and I am glad that Sudan no longer has to take care of that failed area (South Sudan) and that burden. 100's of different African ethnic groups are killing each other in South Sudan while we speak. It is rarely mentioned in the news. This is why more and more illegal South Sudanese refugees enter Yemen (even despite a war there!) and KSA. Not to say Egypt and Northern Sudan. Some even end up in Israel.

One of my all-time favorite NBA players (did not watch him live but watched a few documentaries about him) is Manute Bol. A South Sudanese basketball player and the second tallest NBA player in history. He died in a relatively young age due to illness a few years ago.



That aside, South Sudanese people are indeed very friendly. In fact you can say the same thing about most Africans, this includes Ethiopians.

Fact of the matter is that in a perfect world, Egypt and Sudan would not have any hostilities or disputes as both peoples by large do not wish this nor is it in the interests of either party.

Rather they should both join hands agains Ethiopia's project if it proves to be harmful for the Nile as a whole and thus both countries.

BTW I enjoy reading many of your posts about Egypt and Arab events so please continue brother although I would appreciate it if you gave your opinion about GCC matters as well as once before seeing the current mess with the Qatari regime.

Take care.
 
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Sorry but this is an international river owned by All countries that it passes through for thousands of years .
I have never seen China cutting river from India and Pakistan or USA cutting Colorado river from Mexico . All these Countries have built dams for Electric power generation without any issues .

Who said we are cutting the river? And who said it's for anything but electrical power generation?
 
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To Mahatir... Please Note that because I am a new member, I cannot yet post links until I reach 29 posts

''Lies , Egypt was given 9%% of water niles by Britain in 1929 agreement , Egypt then gave up parts of its share to Sudan based on 1959 agreement where Egypt received 75% and Sudan 25% at that time Egypt population was 22 million while Sudan barely 9 million in addition to that fact Egypt does not have other rivers or rainy seasons like Sudan .''

Salam brother am back,

LMFAO who cares in this, the 21st century what Britain gave Egypt?? On that time, 90% of Africa was still colonized and ruled by European powers. African countries had no ''say'' in what took place within those negotiations. Now it is the time that countries like Ethiopia take back what is geographically ''theirs''. Its a joke to give Egypt 86% of the water yet the country where the Nile originates from has to negotiate a deal to use its waters.


''Egyptian leadership were stupid to give 2/3 of Sudan and Egypt land mass to Sudan even though at that time in 1958 Egypt had 3 times more people than Sudan .''

LMAO another joke, bruv, who the heck told you that Egypt owned Sudan? XD Before colonization, the Sudanese mahadist forces occupied most of modern day Sudan after defeating the ottomans in 1885. Egypt on the other hand barely had any control of its own land being constantly colonized by foreign powers since the days of the pharaohs. There was 1 british adinistration for 2 states. That does not mean that Sudan was ''ever'' an integral part of Egypt. It was never our choice.

Check Mahadist state borders,


''Lies again Halayeb is an integral part of Egypt and it is located north of 22 line which is the official borders between Egypt and Sudan .''

According to the 1899 Agreement between Egypt and Britain. In 1902, Halaiib falls under Sudanese ownership even after indepence in 1902. So check your records.

''The Beja tribes have been seeking independence from Sudan by forming their Eastern Sudan State as a result of discrimination by central government in Khartoum.''


I don't know whats funnier. The fact that you use a ''wikipedia'' source to back up your claim, or that you don't actually know what is actually written on your link XD. It clearly states the the Beja front has been complaining of Egyptian ''occupation'' of the Halaiib triangle. but leaving that aside for now, The eastern front never offically ''asked'' for independence. They simply demanded a fairer share of oil revenues alongside more political representation. both of what they have received. So I suggest you close that door because them groups are amongst the most powerful within the Sudanese government today.

''You did not mention why Egypt Officially took over Halayeb in 1995 ? Do you remember what your government did back then when they attempted to Assassinate the Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak in Ethiopia ?''



Until this day, there is no ''proof'' that Sudan has officially attempted the assasination of Husni Mubarak. There is a distinction between ''accused'' and ''guilty''. I don't remember how many times Mubarak and Bashir shared a coffee at some palace. Either way, that does not mean Egypt can just take what is not hers and expect to be backed up in some fantasy negotiations.


''Ethiopian Government even decided to cut their diplomatic ties with Sudanese Government as a result of their support for terrorism and attempt to assassinate Egyptian president in Adis Ababa in 1995 .''

Like stated above, There is no proof of This until this day that Sudan attempted the murder of a foreign person. Countries cut diplomatic relations and restore them very easily. That is something very common and see everyday in the middle east. just like that fantasy accusation that Qatar supports terrorism globally. End of the day, Ethiopia has worked hard, even though it has little, to convince theworld in ending Sudans isolation. You guys didn't, shame....


''There are also Sudanese channels on Youtube that makes fun of Egyptian and even insulting their women calling them whores . Many Sudanese on Youtube call for a genocide against Egypt and even transferring the nile to Israel like this Sudanese from Sudan Army below.''

And you of course, like a little kid believe everything that is said and start crying like a baby lmao dude chill. Can someone, with a good level of IQ possibly believe that the ''NILE'' can be diverted to Israel without passing Egyptian territory? If that was even possible I wouldn't have mind doing that myself lmao. God, I don't wanna imagine how things would have been if this river was flowing from North to South like most other rives in the world. Seems like god gave us a safe geographic position for the future. I personally, like most Sudanese, do not want genocide of egyptians. like I said, egyptians are victims of bad governance like us. but the imaginary 1959 agreement is dead.

''Arab countries continously insult each other whether Morroco Vs Algeria or Kuwait Vs Iraq , this is not a valid reason to hate a country . Egypt never waged war on Sudan and if that happened Sudan would have been partitioned into 5 countries today . You know that the central government in Sudan holds the country through military power and suppressing others by brute force . People in Darfur , Beja region , Blue Nile and South Kurdofan are all seeking independence or Autonomy from Sudan either through Armed insurgencies or Political activism.''

Another fail,
what other arab countries treat each other like is the last of my worries. I care about Egyot which we happened to share our 2nd longest border with. LMAO is that supposed to be a threat, you are seriously overestimating egypts influence and power. Egypt ''cannot'' partition Sudan in 5 countries. I don't know what your media has been feeding you, but that is utterly unrealistic. Look at Sinai today and then dream about partitioning other countries. Again, I urge you to update your political knowledge because ''NON'' of these regions you mentioned is officially asking for independence from Sudan. and please don't get us some funny wikipedia link again lol. The rebel groups, who happen to be power hungry only want to get rid of Bashir just like rebels in Libya, Syria , yemen etc try to get rid of their central government. only difference is that those in Sudan are finished financially, diplomatically , and militarily.


''I did not even mention the tribal problem in North Sudan and the minority group from Khartoum , Jazira and northern states that dominates the political life at the expense of other ethnic groups in North Sudan from West , East and Southern states .''

Tribal problems exist in many third world countries including asian countries. Sudan is currently ran by a government that represents all political groups and a parliament that represents all regions for the first time as of 2015.

The racist Sudanese from Khartoum and other Northern States use a derogatory racist slur against Egypt calling them " El Halaba " .

oh wow and you seriously expect me to take your word and that Egyptians are ''not'' racist and very kind people? XD wasn't it your official who at an african meeting called sub saharans slaves? if thats your government ''official'' being racist at an international conference, then I cannot imagine what it must be like walking in Egypt as a black person.

Egypt was one of the most affected countries as a result of the sanctions on Sudan . These sanctions caused Egypt to handle between 2-3 million Sudanese refugees in a country that already faces hardships managing over 80 million citizens . The Sudanese citizens in Sudan regularly visit Egypt for Medical treatment and Education due to lake of such facilities in Sudan .

''hmmm that figure is interesting because as far as I know, there were around 500,000 Sudanese refugees (including south sudanese) scattered around the world, yet you here saying 3 million in Egypt alone? (jokes) show some links, not a wikipedia source. Civil war affected the development of Sudan, which egypt played a role in. I see how previous pro-egypt governments in Khartoum made Sudan so reliant on Egypt in the 60s-80s, that needs to change ASAP.''

''Sudan has placed under sanctions as a result of the Sudanese government support for Terrorism against other countries and Sudan was behind terrorist attacks against USA Embassy in Nairobi and other african places that lead to the death of over 200 civilians .''


Very interesting, specially due to the fact that ''NON'' of those bombers was actually Sudanese lmao. I am yet to see Sudan paying any attention to those cases because I can't remember checking Sudan pleading guilty and paying for something it has no control over.

''Sudan hosted various terrorist organizations including terrorist Islamic Jihad group that targeted and killed over 1000 Egyptian civilians and badly hit the Egyptian Economy by destroying Tourism .''

Yet you got Sisi thanking Bashir by giving him nice looking medals medals ;/


''Sudan also hosted and supported the biggest Terrorist of All time Osama Biladen who financed Terrorism all over the muslim world especially Egypt .



Video Below shows Criminal Terrorist Osama Biladen with Albashir in Sudan .''


Another fail, When Osama bin laden was in Sudan, he was recognised as an anti saud businessman exiled from Saudi Arabia, not a terrorist fleeing from prosecution. He lived in Sudan in the mid 90's before 9/11. Sudan, at some point offered to even hand him over to the CIA. the same organisation which created and supported him with weaponry. In the end, he left himself to Afghanistan and started his terrorist bombings until his death in Pakistan.

''No one said Egypt owns the nile , there is an agreement signed in 1959 between Egyptian and Sudanese government that divides water from Blue and White nile . The problem is not about Building the Dam its rather to do with filling period and the rate of nile flow that would be allowed during dry seasons .''

An agreement which gives Egypt 86% of the water? water that does not even originate from Egypt? its an imaginary agreement signed at a time when Egypt was considered a major power and the rest of Africa was under colonisation. Surely as the rest of Africa develops, this agreement will become less and less relevant. Sudan needs to sign the Entebbe pact which would redistribute the Nile waters accordingly because to be honest, we needs a lot more then 18.5 billion cb of water.


''The Egyptian president and other government officials have said several times Ethiopia has the right to build the dam , negotiations are about Dam filling period and already the agreement signed between Ethiopia , Sudan and Egypt gives Ethiopia the right to build the Dam .''

Thats nice to hear, lets hope things get settled then.

''If you think you prosperity would come at the expense of 100 million people then that means you are digging your own grave with your own hands .''

How exactly would it be at the expense of 100 million people when those people don't actually own the waters.... like I said you are overestimating your power and surely, we are not digging our own graves. sooner or later this 1959 agreement will be changed as the upper land countries get more powerful and self reliant overtime. So its better for Egypt to stop acting like a hard man and redistribute the waters accordingly and fairly. Again, Thank god the water actually flows from South to North and not the opposite.

''Sudan does not have the water resources to become the bread basket of the Arab world , Sudan total yearly renewable water resources is between 40 billion to 50 billion cubic meters from rain , rivers and ground water.''

False again ( where do you get your stats from)? , Sudan gets 400 billion cb of rainful per annum alone. Without taking into account the underground water basins, rivers and potential future increase of Nile waters. but since your egyptian, I understand your worries of losing waters in case Sudan does become a breadbasket. don't worry, we aren't that cold hearted.

''Sudan is a tropical country which does not make it suitable for growing strategic crops like Wheat , an acre in Sudan only gives one ton of wheat while in Egypt its around 3-3.5 tons .''

Sudan has much of its agriculture done using all machinery and not modern mechanized techniques. Something easily changed in the future. Furthermore, Sudan has a diversity in climates from upper North to South.



''South Sudan was rich in Water but they are a separate country now and you cannot add it as part of Sudan . Sudan does have over 100 million acres of fertile land but lacks water resources to grow it . You need atleast 500 billion cubic meters of water on yearly bases to grow on this amount of land under the condition Sudan uses high tech irrigation systems . An acre of land requires between 4000 to 6000 meter cubes of water to grow in the 3 seasons each year ( crop rotation ) , this value could go down if you utilize greenhouses but sudan lacks Expertise and funds to invest in something like that .''

South Sudan has not been taken into consideration in ''any'' of my recent figures. Since you set your entire figure of water in Sudan at 40 billion (which is a fraction of yearly rainful alone), makes the rest of your argument pretty much irrelevent.

''As I mentioned before your country does not have the resources to become a bread basket , the only way to increase your yearly total renewable water resources would be by building expensive wells to use Sudan's under ground water but this requires expensive investments and foreign investors would prefer to invest in countries rich in Water like Argentina , Ukraine and India whom have way more water resources than Sudan .''

and like I proved to you before, your figurs are wrong and don't represent whats actualy there. you say the entire figure of water is at 40 billion yet rainfal alone in the country is estimated at 400 billion. without taking into account underground water (backbone of Sudans water sources) and rivers. Its funny cuz investors view Sudan as a future bread basket and are actually investing billions into the coutries agriculture industry. Investment is not a joke where you just invest wherever in the world you want to. location, labour , enivornment and productivity all play a role. That is why gulf countries focus mainly on Sudan viewing it as a moral goal of securing food production ''within'' the arab world in which Sudan has 45% of its arable land.


''According to Fao sudan total renewable water capacity is 37.8 billion per year .''


Ranfail +400 billion
Groundwater 900 billion


please Note: Because I am a new member, I cannot post links yet. but you got google.

''Sudan failure is because of the backward government currently running it , the MB/Islamists failed in every country they ruled , when you get rid of them then Sudan will have a chance to reach its potential .''

Sudan has a backward government that created some problems. Egypt has backward governments which affected its future too. But that doesn't mean Egypt can continue the way it is going right now .... or Egypt can get rid of its failed government and actually sit on the table with other countries and redistribute those waters fairly, what are you afraid of if its fair? its better to negotiate a safe settlement now because power dynamics can change within a few years, you never know. maybe one day Egypt would be the weaker state in the region not getting a drip of water thanks to its past practices. seeing the way ethiopia is growing anf Sudan is opening up to the world. power dynamics change, but the water will always flow from the south to the north.

''The mining industry in Sudan especially Gold is dominated by Janjaweed/Rapid Deployment Forces and other loyalist militias. Nothing reaches the central government budget and these groups are left by Albashir to mine illegally in return for their loyalty .''

Another joke, Janjaweed operates in Darfur and Rapid deployment forces are a faction of Sudans NISS. whereas mining is done in eastern Sudan and its northern states employing a million citizens as of 2015. check your facts before saying nonsense.

''Since a while we haven’t seen such arrogant and ignorant posts....''

Seems like you haven't faced the truth recently....

This can show every one how the MB government of Sudane make their people feel about Egypt.....he is talking about Halayeb triangle which is In the north of 22 line (which is the Egyptian territories..... during the ruling king Farouk ( King of Egypt and Sudan)...he let Halayeb Triangle rulled administratively from Khartoum because of the bedwens and their animals enters that area (not to make it difficult to them to move through boarders ).

false, first of all farouk was never King of the Sudan. It was a ceremonial name only that had no effect on the ground. It were the British that transferred Halaiib to Sudan and had remained so until Egyptian occuation in 1995.

''And things go that way until Sudanese terrorism supporting MB government involved in assasination trial of the Egyptain presedent.''

Something never proved, only accusations.... and mubarak himself met bashir multiple times. And to be honest, most Sudanese don't really care about MB in egypt.


''Also you are taking about this Egyptain territory of Halayeb and you divided your country and let Ethiopia occupying your eastern territories and killing your farmers.''
https://www.dabangasudan.org/en/all-news/article/ethiopian-gunmen-occupy-eastern-sudanese-farms

South Sudan was an american project where its ''people'' voted for Independence. Today, the whole world sees what a failure South Sudan is with arguably the largest crisis on the african continent today.
LMAO radio Dabange is a Sudanese opposition in exile website using lots of propaganda to bring bashir down. Ethiopia, officially does not occupy Sudanese territory. The disputed territories are recognised by the Ethiopia government as Sudanese territory. there are no foreign soldiers in that area. only ethiopian farmers that penetrate Sudanese territory due to poorly demarcated borders. something that can be changed within a short period. both those scenarios are way different to the scenario where Egypt actually occupies Sudanese terriroty.


''Sudanese civil war was harmful to Egypt....as we need stable, strong and independent neighbors .....
Not about 2 to 3 millions refugees....still about 1 million in Egypt now.''

Funny cuz Sudanese refugees across the whole world including south sudanese were about 500,000. but I guess its a habit for egyptians to inflate figures to their favour. Sudanese in the gulf barely reach a million so I highly doubt that even 700,000 Sudanese citizens and not ''refugees'' live in Egypt.

''I feel petty for you my fellow Sudanese brothers and sisters....you have some day a special place in the hearts and minds of Egyptians....but most of you follow the MB government of you.....''

but my egyptian brothers, you guys follow your Israeli supported stingy government that occupies our land and tries to take all the water away from us :(

''Finally....the Egyptian people are shocked now from what they are seeing and hearing from Sudanese MB government and those racist , offensive and ignorant Sudanese voices which headed here or there....and the Egyptian people haven’t said there word yet.''

MB is not a term used in Sudan. We are familiar with Islamists likeTurabi that have now lost a lot of influence, but those MB terms are not famous in Sudan whatever they mean. and please, Egyptian poeple are everyday on youtube condemning Sudans decisions so maybe you should try to fix that? :)
 

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Again, to Mahatir...

''My friend I Visited Sudan 6 times before and I have alot of Northern Sudanese friends from Darfur , East Sudan and Nubians from Northern region they all complain about the racism they face at the hand of the racist people in Khartoum , Aljazeera ,river nile and Sennar states .''

LMAO you here talking as if Egypt is gods heaven on earth, bruv take a seat.... Egypt is known to Africans as a very racist country. I don't know what type of Sudanese you been talking to, but they most likely those that support Khalil Ibrahim or Minawi.

''Racism is a big issue in Sudan and its the main reason behind south sudan succeeding and why more states in Northern Sudan are seeking independence .''

First of all, sorry to burst your tiny bubble, but there are no states in Sudan asking for independence. maybe you should stop listening to egyptian radio everyday and face reality. South Sudan broke off just how Pakistan broke away, USSR fell down , Eritrea etc.... but look where South Sudan is now, they are 10 times worse off. all their lifes being fed lies that as soon as they brake from the north, they would create the switzerland of africa.... well too bad cuz they now worse than congo and somalia

I did not accuse 30 Million Sudanese , the ones I am referring to are a minority that is barely 5 million similar to the alawite minority in Syria .

Nice story......

''Read more about the Janjaweed crimes in Darfur and how many innocent Sudanese civilians were killed by these criminals .''

LMAO reminds me of the same propaganda spread about the north during the civil war with the south. and we all can see where the south ended up. either way this got nothing to the with the waters or halaiib, both which can be solved in the next decade or so :)

One thing is to dislike whatever regime that is in power (in this case Omar al-Bashir) but another is to write such blatant nonsense and make a character assassination of the 20 million or so Sudanese Arabs.

Sudanese Arabs are some of the most friendly people out there and are widely known as very hospitable, friendly and warm people in the Arab world. KSA is home to a significant Sudanese Arab community and I can without a doubt in my voice say that they are one of the best behaved and most friendly expat communities in KSA.

You should not brush all of them (no, they are not a minority in Sudan), with the same brush due to leadership. It is not the fault of the average Sudanese Arab that Al-Bashir is in power. He is very much universally disliked by informed Sudanese because his regime has amounted to little in the past 3 (!) decades. Just like we should not blame past dictators in Egypt (Gamal Abdel Nasser etc.) on the Egyptian people or elsewhere in the Arab world.

Fact of the matter is that most leaderships in not only the Arab world but the entire Muslim and developing world are bad by large (if not very bad), with a few exceptions among them.

As for hating Egyptians, that is also nonsense. Southern Egyptians and Northern Sudanese are more or less identical people. It is common for both parties to have relatives on both sides of the border. Not to mention the Nubians on both sides of the border.

Let's not try to get carried away here. Both leaderships of Egypt and Sudan have made mistakes in the past, and although I too agree that Sudan's MB government bears the blunt of the blame, we should not fall down to this level.

Lastly no sane Arab hates other Arab people or countries. Today relations between KSA and Qatar, Bahrain and Qatar, UAE and Qatar are at an all-time low but which sane person is going to say that Qataris hate Saudi Arabians, Bahrainis, Emiratis and vice versa? Who would dare to say such a nonsense thing without being ridiculed?

Likewise people in Gaza (average person) does not hate Egypt either just because they are ruled by Hamas. Nor vice versa for that matter. We should not allow a minority of loudmouths to destroy relations between brotherly people. We are all Arabs and we have enough of outside enemies as it is today. Do we really need to become each others enemies as well? I am just asking as it seems to be the agenda of some.

@Ghandour55

Welcome to the forum brother. One thing is to have disagreements that those in power have contributed to, another thing is to remember the essentials which is that we are all in the same boat as Arabs and thus brothers and sisters that should wish the best for each other and cooperate rather than the opposite, even more so as neighbors. KSA borders both Egypt and Sudan (only the small Red Sea separates us) and we have religious, linguistic, ancestral, Islamic, pre-Islamic and tribal/clan/family ties to both countries. We wish the best for both peoples and countries as well. I hope that KSA can serve as a mediator between Egypt and Sudan seeing the historical ties between KSA and Egypt and the normalization of ties between KSA and Sudan.

Also don't take attacks against your country or leadership personally. I too struggle at this at times despite being here this long. When the criticism comes from your own Arab brethren, mostly that criticism is not out of hatred. Of course for some it is but they are overall a small minority and mostly ignorant and uniformed people who do not see the bigger picture. That's the realization that I have come to.

Wa alaikum alsalam Akhi,

thanks for the very warm welcome. I also thank you for trying to calm this conversation a bit down and creating bridges between our 3 countries. I really appreciate that. I literally agree with 95% of what you said. Sudan and Egypt have a lot in common. both historically and today. The people are also very close to each other. There is so many families that I know where 1 parent is Sudanese while the other is Egyptian. I have stated since my very first post that I have nothing against Egyptian people in general. My only problem is with their leadership. likewise, they also have issues with our leadership. also understandable

But coming into this forum , you can see Egyptians threathening to wipe out 20 million Sudanese. Threathening to attack a country which only recently came out of its international isolation (thanks to Saudi Arabia and its GCC allies). I recognise that Bashir is not the best of leaders, many Sudanese know that. However, it is painful to see Egypt backstabbing Sudan ''politcally'' under any circumstances, while it was in a middle of a civil war.

I hope that wound is healed soon so we can go back to the way we were before. The days when naser and nimeiry were together. Even late Egyptian president anwar Sadat was halve North Sudanese. Sudan has perfect relations with Saudi Arabia, I too want to see our relation with Egypt to be to that level, where we can actually trust eachother and not backstab each other. We are both ruled by dictatorships, but I still believe that all our issues can be resolved through effective dialougue.

and lol yes, I will try to not take those attacks personal. Thank you akhi :)
 
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How exactly would it be at the expense of 100 million people when those people don't actually own the waters.... like I said you are overestimating your power and surely, we are not digging our own graves. sooner or later this 1959 agreement will be changed as the upper land countries get more powerful and self reliant overtime. So its better for Egypt to stop acting like a hard man and redistribute the waters accordingly and fairly. Again, Thank god the water actually flows from South to North and not the opposite.


Your amaze me when it comes to Water nile , only 8 billion cubic water reaches Egypt and Sudan from lake Victoria due to swamps in South Sudan. Nile Basin countries have been withdrawing water from lake Victoria at an unprecedent rate to the point where now they are thinking about reducing withdrawal volume to protect the marine life in Lake Victoria .

85% of the Nile waters comes from lake Taka in Ethiopia and this is an international river which means its owned by all countries that it passes through whether Sudan , Egypt and Ethiopia . When you say Egyptians have no right in nile waters thats a very dangerous statement . Egypt is not acting like a hard man but rather extremists like yourself who come up with such dangerous statements , thankfully your not a politician otherwise Sudan would have been lead into a destructive war with Egypt .

Breaking the 1959 water nile agreement would also mean Egypt has the right to break the border agreement with Sudan . Your government understands this and if it breaks this agreement and reduce Egypt water supply significantly then it would lead to an ugly war and both countries will lose especially Sudan since weakening of Sudanese army would lead to the fall of Sudan when other separatists groups utilize such war as a chance to succeed .

Another point that makes me laugh when you said Sudan gets 400 billion cubic meters of Water per year
Sudan Total renewable water resources per year is only between 40 to 60 billion .

Investors will rely on either Nile or ground water when they farm in Sudan , you know well Sudan only gets seasonal rainfall between July to October and its unsustainable for proper farming . If Sudan was like Britain where it rains through out the year that would be another case .


List below from UN for total renewable resources available for each country .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_renewable_water_resources#cite_note-2

The report Below from Fao estimates Sudan total yearly resources at 30 billion .
http://www.fao.org/fileadmin/user_upload/agwa/docs/NIP_Sudan_Final.pdf

The figure I got was from Fao site and I did say Egypt , Sudan and Libya are rich in ground water but this requires investments and technology that Sudan currently does not posses and even if it does its not Sustainable due to corruption in Sudan , your Water resources would be used up in 50-60 years if mega projects are carried out especially when foreign investors grow water hungry crops like Rice , Barseem and Corn .

If Uganda withdraws more Water from Lake Victoria and builds hydro dams then both Egypt and Sudan would benefit as it means more flows through the white Nile .

Egypt problem is not with other Nile countries as its not affected by them in any shape , the problem is mainly with Ethiopia and it will be solved between both countries politicians .

By the way I am not Egyptian and I dont watch Egyptian media as its of low quality and lack subjective arguments Just like other Arab media outlets .

Let me give you an advice you should fear someone who has nothing to lose than someone who has something to lose . As long as Egypt gets its share or most of it then Egypt would have no reason to wage war but once Egypt loses most of each share then it will have nothing to lose , this is when Sudan will face a bleak future .

This has nothing to do with Egypt being strong or Sudan weak , this is the nature of life , people will fight for their own survival , either you respect agreements made before or face terrible consequences .
 
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Wa alaikum alsalam Akhi,

thanks for the very warm welcome. I also thank you for trying to calm this conversation a bit down and creating bridges between our 3 countries. I really appreciate that. I literally agree with 95% of what you said. Sudan and Egypt have a lot in common. both historically and today. The people are also very close to each other. There is so many families that I know where 1 parent is Sudanese while the other is Egyptian. I have stated since my very first post that I have nothing against Egyptian people in general. My only problem is with their leadership. likewise, they also have issues with our leadership. also understandable

But coming into this forum , you can see Egyptians threathening to wipe out 20 million Sudanese. Threathening to attack a country which only recently came out of its international isolation (thanks to Saudi Arabia and its GCC allies). I recognise that Bashir is not the best of leaders, many Sudanese know that. However, it is painful to see Egypt backstabbing Sudan ''politcally'' under any circumstances, while it was in a middle of a civil war.

I hope that wound is healed soon so we can go back to the way we were before. The days when naser and nimeiry were together. Even late Egyptian president anwar Sadat was halve North Sudanese. Sudan has perfect relations with Saudi Arabia, I too want to see our relation with Egypt to be to that level, where we can actually trust eachother and not backstab each other. We are both ruled by dictatorships, but I still believe that all our issues can be resolved through effective dialougue.

and lol yes, I will try to not take those attacks personal. Thank you akhi :)

@Ghandour55

My pleasure brother.

Regardless of grievances on both sides of the border, I firmly believe that Egypt and Sudan will not engage in any direct conflicts and the existing disagreements on a few areas, will eventually be solved as it neither suits Egypt nor Sudan (two brotherly and neighboring states) to have any hostile ties. Rather the opposite obviously.

As you said, I too hope, that KSA could serve as a mediator. I can't think of a better mediator at least.

That aside, it is good to see a Sudanese brother here and please don't shy away from posting news from Sudan, military as well as non-military. Some of us have covered Sudan in the past but unfortunately due to our small numbers (Arab users) we barely cover anything.

BTW are you familiar with the major Arab defense forums? Many Sudanese brothers take part in them. Give it a look and we might "meet" there.
 
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Hey guys, what do you think of this base on the Red Sea..will it be an airbase, a naval base or something else!? All we know is that Sudan said it wanted a joined base with Russia.. but they did not mention the nature of the base..
 
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@Ghandour55
Please stop this nonsense.

You can search about refugees from Sudane n Egypt during and after civil war in Sudan...
Number varies from 1 to 5 millions from what is now two countries known as North and South Sudan...
We now at least have 2million Sudanese migrants lives between us (most welcomed).....but brain washed people like your self are more dangerous than bombs.
 
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''Your amaze me when it comes to Water nile , only 8 billion cubic water reaches Egypt and Sudan from lake Victoria due to swamps in South Sudan. Nile Basin countries have been withdrawing water from lake Victoria at an unprecedent rate to the point where now they are thinking about reducing withdrawal volume to protect the marine life in Lake Victoria .''

Egypts problem....

''85% of the Nile waters comes from lake Taka in Ethiopia and this is an international river which means its owned by all countries that it passes through whether Sudan , Egypt and Ethiopia . When you say Egyptians have no right in nile waters thats a very dangerous statement . Egypt is not acting like a hard man but rather extremists like yourself who come up with such dangerous statements , thankfully your not a politician otherwise Sudan would have been lead into a destructive war with Egypt .''

hhhhhh this is hilarious, am the extremist now? very funny dude.... oh wow destructive war don't worry, nothing will happen now. but Egypt is losing influence by the day. It can easily get to a point within the next 2 decades That Egypt is the weaker state. It wouldn't have the capacity to go to war with 2 nations with a combined population of over 170 million. Seeing the way Sudan is opening up and Ethiopia is developing with double digit growth, Egypt better resolve this diplomatically


''Breaking the 1959 water nile agreement would also mean Egypt has the right to break the border agreement with Sudan . Your government understands this and if it breaks this agreement and reduce Egypt water supply significantly then it would lead to an ugly war and both countries will lose especially Sudan since weakening of Sudanese army would lead to the fall of Sudan when other separatists groups utilize such war as a chance to succeed .''

Nile water agreement has nothing to do with the border agreement. Egypt was never part of Sudan. The Sudanese government is playing cards right. wait till the right moment after this inernational isolation is fully broken and the army gets re-equiped. Economy wise there is not a large difference between Egypt and Sudan, GDP is $311 BN vs $118 BN. per capita is nearly the same. Am pretty sure I schooled you earlier that there are no groups within Sudan calling for independence, try something new and stop using wikipedia sources. Sudan can literally sign Entebbe any moment and Egypt can only blame itself

''Another point that makes me laugh when you said Sudan gets 400 billion cubic meters of Water per year
Sudan Total renewable water resources per year is only between 40 to 60 billion .''

Do you even know what renewable water resources mean? find a dictionary and then come back. Sudan rainfal is upto 400 BN and underground water upto 900 BN. without taking into account rivers and potential increase in Nile water shares.

''Investors will rely on either Nile or ground water when they farm in Sudan , you know well Sudan only gets seasonal rainfall between July to October and its unsustainable for proper farming . If Sudan was like Britain where it rains through out the year that would be another case .''

You know very well that Sudan has multiple climates in different regions. Regions like Sennar, Qadarif , Blue Nile, Kordogan and South Darfur get a lot more rainfal than Khartoum, Red sea state , Northern State etc... underground waters and nile waters can play a role, no problem.

''The figure I got was from Fao site and I did say Egypt , Sudan and Libya are rich in ground water but this requires investments and technology that Sudan currently does not posses and even if it does its not Sustainable due to corruption in Sudan , your Water resources would be used up in 50-60 years if mega projects are carried out especially when foreign investors grow water hungry crops like Rice , Barseem and Corn .''

Sudan FDI stock hit $42 BN regardless of economic sanctions in 2016. Its FDI stock could likely reach $86 Billion by 2020, mainly invested in agriculture. sources of these investments are rich arab gulf states. So capital and technology is not an issue in the short term. And lol at water resources used up after 60 years, you do realise that ground water can easily recharge? river waters and rainfal is pretty much unlimited in a sense.

''If Uganda withdraws more Water from Lake Victoria and builds hydro dams then both Egypt and Sudan would benefit as it means more flows through the white Nile .''

cool....

''Egypt problem is not with other Nile countries as its not affected by them in any shape , the problem is mainly with Ethiopia and it will be solved between both countries politicians .''

think we know that....

''By the way I am not Egyptian and I dont watch Egyptian media as its of low quality and lack subjective arguments Just like other Arab media outlets .''

nice story....

''Let me give you an advice you should fear someone who has nothing to lose than someone who has something to lose . As long as Egypt gets its share or most of it then Egypt would have no reason to wage war but once Egypt loses most of each share then it will have nothing to lose , this is when Sudan will face a bleak future .''

Now let me give you an advice without really caring what nationality you are. Power dynaics can change within years, But the Nile water will always flow from South to North with Egypt being the last in the que. It is only a matter of time before the upper countries like Sudan and Ethiopia get more powerful, that is what Egypt had feared all along and is doing eveything it can to stop projects like GERD. Egypt is losing influence everyday and we both know that Egypt wouldn't behave like this were Sudan and Ethiopia more advanced. Sudan will take more water when the time comes and Ethiopia doesn't care what Britain gave Egypt when it wasn't independent.


''This has nothing to do with Egypt being strong or Sudan weak , this is the nature of life , people will fight for their own survival , either you respect agreements made before or face terrible consequences .''

LOL terrible consequences, Egypt if it keeps acting like this, sooner or later it will find itself in a position where it has no influence and is begging for water. specially in the 2040's when Sudan would actually need more water from the nile and Egypt is in no position to wage war against all the upper nile countries. Egypt better cooperate effectively before it is too late. Respect agreements? what agreements? agreements where upper nile countries were not on the table? lmao what a joke....

@Ghandour55
Please stop this nonsense.

You can search about refugees from Sudane n Egypt during and after civil war in Sudan...
Number varies from 1 to 5 millions from what is now two countries known as North and South Sudan...
We now at least have 2million Sudanese migrants lives between us (most welcomed).....but brain washed people like your self are more dangerous than bombs.


Get me a source which actually states that there were 5 million Sudanese ''refugees'' in Egypt and a link where they are 2 million Sudanese in your country right now. whether the link is in english or arabic I don't care, just post one lmao and if not, then please just shut up and keep moving....

and lol at the bombs comment, thats nice to hear. am pretty sure the brainwashed once are those egyptians that listen to their media everyday and believe they actully own the river lmao

@Ghandour55

My pleasure brother.

Regardless of grievances on both sides of the border, I firmly believe that Egypt and Sudan will not engage in any direct conflicts and the existing disagreements on a few areas, will eventually be solved as it neither suits Egypt nor Sudan (two brotherly and neighboring states) to have any hostile ties. Rather the opposite obviously.

As you said, I too hope, that KSA could serve as a mediator. I can't think of a better mediator at least.

That aside, it is good to see a Sudanese brother here and please don't shy away from posting news from Sudan, military as well as non-military. Some of us have covered Sudan in the past but unfortunately due to our small numbers (Arab users) we barely cover anything.

BTW are you familiar with the major Arab defense forums? Many Sudanese brothers take part in them. Give it a look and we might "meet" there.

As long as Egypt sits on the table and actually distributes the Nile water again fairly amongst all the other upper Nile states which were not independent in 1959, things will never get to war. We all want peace but it has to be fair.

Saudi arabia is a great option of mediation and am sure it would be succesful. its reall nice meeting you and yes, the arab forums for defense are really good too and will hopefully join one soon ASAP :)
 
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