Banned Kashmiri militant outfits re-emerging in Pakistan

[Neo]

Somebody already pointed out the main reason India and Pakistan are intersted in Kashmir...its water. Whoever controlls Kashmir controlls the Indus Valley thus Pakistan. More than 200 million people depend on water originating from this region.

 

[UnitedPak]

The same reason why Pakistan is in Sindh!

Are you saying that Pakistan has stationed a ridiculous number of Punjabi, Pathan and Balouch troops in Sindh who are oppressing Sindhis and putting them in mass graves?

Kashmir is a Disputed Terrirory.
It belongs to Nobody but the Kashmiris.
Pakistan has secondary rights over Kashmir because the rest of Pakistanis rely on water which flows directly through Kashmir.
Kashmiris are Muslims who want to join Pakistan. If you dont believe that then allow the UN to hold a vote there and we can ask them.

 

[Malang]

Are you saying that Pakistan has stationed a ridiculous number of Punjabi, Pathan and Balouch troops in Sindh who are oppressing Sindhis and putting them in mass graves?

For eg. MQM supported by Musharraf are killing Karachites etc.

but leaving childishness aside, as per legal documents Indian govt has all the right over Kashmir at the moment.

and as I have said mass graves prove people died whether they were innocent or not or who killed them is pending inquiry. I hope you don't refer to Jihadi recruitment drives for definite answers.

Kashmir is a Disputed Terrirory. It belongs to Nobody but the Kashmiris.

as per legal docs IMO till an accord is not reached it belongs to the respective countries...

Pakistan has secondary rights over Kashmir because the rest of Pakistanis rely on water which flows directly through Kashmir.

What a weird logic? India has secondary rights over China because Indus and Brahmaputra too flow from them then...
Pakistan has right(exercisable) over its territory under its control and same goes for India.

Kashmiris are Muslims who want to join Pakistan. If you dont believe that then allow the UN to hold a vote there and we can ask them.

Kashmiris are Shia, Sunni and Sufi and so are many Indians.. Kashmiris are also Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist etc.

If they want to join Pakistan then why do they vote in elections?

Please read UN resolutions in fact Pakistan and China have to give up their Kashmir's .. and India can station in undivided Kashmir a billion troops and delay elections for millenniums..

PS: IMO
You have contradicted yourself
1. Kashmir belongs to Kashmiris
2. Pakistan has secondary rights over Kashmir
3. Kashmiris want to join Pakistan. Didn't Kashmiris want independence from both?

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

1. Why do you think Indian troops were posted in Kashmir in early 90s while they were completely absent before that?
2. What about Ikhwan, the brigade of surendered militants who are involved in counter-insurgency?
3. What about those people who vote in election?
4. What about the killings of non-Sunni Kashmiris at the hands of Jihadis?
5. Do you know how many innocents are killed and injured by Jihadi attacks?
6. Do you know how many surrendered militants fight alongside Indians against Jihadis? and do you know how many surrendered militants and their family members are killed by Jihadis?
7. Are pro-Pakistani kashmiris innocents and Pro-Indian Kashmiris non muslims? are those killed by Jihadis non-innocents? are those terrorists killed by Counter-insurgents innocents?
8. Do you believe media to be unbiased when it comes to Kashmir?

Even if Kashmiris were disillusioned with India for neglecting them thanks to the so-called freedom struggle they have become IMO fed up with Pakistan too.

1. what about india's psychological warfare against the kashmiri people?
2. what about the women who were raped by indian soldiers?
3. what about women instructed to carry knives to guard their chastisy?
4. what about the unaccounted dissappearances of thousands of kashmiri's?
5. what about the children who were murdered by indian soldiers?
6. what about the elections being rigged and unusual prolonged rule of the indian-favoured politicians?
7. what about the ikhwanu muslimeen attacking police regiments?
8. do you think kashmiris on this board and those who speak against indian rule are brainwashed?

UnitedPak you are blissfully unaware of the demographics of Kashmir. Kashmiri Pundits are miniscule when compared to other Hindu(non-muslim) groups (Read today's news article where the nonmigrant Kashmiri Pundits have criticized the PM) . In fact the population of Kashmiris is little above the Dogras yet the seats are alloted in such a way the Dogras get less representation than they ought to get.

But how can you not sympathise with Kashmiris? they are being killed by freedom fighters/terrorists a freedom struggle which they have largely rejected and which is being fought in their stead by many foreigners? It is surprising to see donation boxes in Pakistani Muslim owned establishments asking for donation for Kashmir's freedom struggle/Jihad.

Again, you will only hear what you want to hear. Kashmiri's being killed by fighters and pandits being displaced.

They are giving more shocks to you and killing more Pakistani people.. Power to the Mujahideen anyone?
Of course who is not afraid of the Pious arab Mujahideen who fight for Islam in Allah's Jihad.
Keeping sarcasm aside, this is just fanaticism which will affect Pakistan more than India...

Like I said earlier letting these groups run unchecked without a purpose will hurt pakistan. that's why getting back at india is really starting to look attractive. after all, it is a tit-for-tat game between pakistan and india as one member suggested.

I hope not too many Kashmiris are martyred in defending their motherland against foreigners fighting for their twisted agendas by quoting such high ideals as enshrined by the Prophet and the Quran.

whatever, pretty tall claims for one who supports forceful occupation of kashmir.

Bugti and Mehsud are freedom fighters too? Truth always triumphs.

i don't think you got the memo here, to some people terrorists are freedom fighters. you using any argument relating to my views and pakistan, won't change this fact.

to some balochi's, bughti is a freedom fighter. to some other people, he's a terrorist. oh yeah, and mehsud isn't much of a freedom fighter as he is a terrorist.

How do you know? Every Kashmiri knows the brutalities the sick terrorists are committing in Kashmir...

how do you know kashmiri's are sick of action against indian troops? Why are kashmiri's protesting indian disruption of pakistani channels? Why do the kashmiri's protest indian soldiers constructing mosques?

I think the amount of people who vote in elections is proof of that even under the threat of being shot they vote.. Even in 47 65 71 and 99 Kashmiris helped GoI fight Pakistan why was that? there were four golden opportunities.

You took the words right out of my mouth, "of that even under the threat of being shot they vote".

Mass graves?? How do you know those mass graves are not built by terrorists? or had corpses of terrorists?
Existence of mass graves means people were killed and if those people are not located that means those were probably foreigners..
PS: There are verifiable records of terrorists abducting large number of Kashmiri women...
Indian soldiers who did what they did were punished for what they did...

no, indian soldiers deny most of the accusations against women. again, even if these ludicrous records are true about kashmiri women being abducted by terrorists, that doesn't make it "okay" for indian soldiers to rape women as they please.

Plebiscite cannot be held in the entire Kashmir region as per UN resolutions. if you have read them you will be aware..

plebiscite wasn't held under the excuse of india holding rigged elections.

How do you know those being thrown in the mass graves were not terrorists or better foreign terrorists?

good one, i bet it's biased reporting or a conspiracy theory, right?

don't waste our time with pathetic line after line replies, it get's lame after a while. no argument is going to go in your favour of kashmiri's supporting indian rule. that's just about the worst pathetic crap I've heard from a hindutva fanatic running amuck with a picture of Rumi.

we have a quite a large representation of kashmiri's participating on this board, i've yet to see anyone who doesn't favour violence against indian occupation.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

The same reason why Pakistan is in Sindh!

running out of ideas?

 

[Xeric]

The same reason why Pakistan is in Sindh!

wow did i read this right...???
pak "IN" sindh......
wht do u mean by pak in sindh....its our province dude....
tell me why r u in UP or MP or anywhere else...

 

[Xeric]

The same reason why Pakistan is in Sindh!

PS: J&K is a province of India and as per legal documents India(GoI, Military, J&K govt etc ) and Indians(Kashmiris, Ladakhis, Dogras) have all the right to be in J&K.

wow LEGAL document....dude go back n read the partition plan again....

why the Mahraja was so pissed off...??

why didnt india signed the Stand Still Agreement....???? when pak signed it..

wht did india asked the Mahraja to sign the accesstion first only then india will send in forces...

why did india send force inside even before the letter of accesstion was signed...?

why did the then C-in-C Gen Grecy refused to counter attack when ordered by Qaid-e-Azam....??? why did he say in case of war all the britsh officers would be withdrawn...???

why Hyderabad was given to u inspite of muslim majority.....??? just the establish a land link to kashmir my dear....

have a guud look at the map n try to find tht place where pakistani, indian and kashmiri border meets...it was this small piece of land tht gave india an excuse to mount on the kashmiris....

this water Bu**Sh** is just the aftermath....

why did india ran to UN after the 1948 war...

wht abt the plea tht india had tht it will hold a plebiste as soon things r over..wheres the promise....

dude...the UN resolution was BASED on this tht it was india's request tht it would hold refrandum ASP...

NOW PLEASE DNT TELL ME THT I AM LIEING N U DNT KNW THIS.....If tht would b the case then we also have to doubt ur historian's credibilty....

U yes india moulded everything...
n now u have the guts to tell us tht y r we "in" sindh....wow ...i m impressed...

dnt give lame logics....
otherwise it is the easiet thing make up some excuse n logic n then to write over here....

has u been living there peacefully u never had required .6 million army for non-combatant ppls...
and yes as far as freedom fighters r concerend....y do they kill india soldiers..???why dont the kill any Pakis...
they have issues with u therefore they r behind ur a**...otherwise they r not our "mama k puttar.."

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Yeah, actually it was and still is.

Not even close to launching a full fledged guerilla war. In case you have time do read about major struggles, freedom moments and civil war. The kind of insurgency seen in Kashmir is what one would call low level conficts. The insurgency has always been limited to skirmishes, lobbying grenades at market places and assasinations , nothing much more. Do read about LTTE,Hezbollah, Chechen movement where they have been strong enough to engage entire army in division level , even then all the above mentioned three have failed to achieve their objectives till now , now what makes you think low level insurgency in Kashmir will achieve the same.

Sorry, but kashmir is one of the major issues among jihadists. If it wasn't, I don't think we'd hear the Imam of the Kaaba mentioning Kashmir in his prayers every ramadan.

When was the last time the imamas and mullahs not issue Fatwa against anyone , someone in Hyderabad issued fatwa against Sania mirza , so what?

Kashmir was never a major issue among islamic jihadi movements. First shite movements dont engage in non shite issues, second even before wot and when the insurgency was at its peak , it failed to attract the precence of foreign fighters and support seen in other major insurgencies.

It doesn't really matter whether you have good relations with muslim countries, what matters is if you have good relations with the world's muslim population.

It does matter a lot. Most of these islamic nations dont recognise Israel due to domestic pressure since their population demands so but in India' case no nation has been under domestic pressure to suspend relations with us. This shows that we might not be tree hugging brothers of muslim population but it sure does show that Kashmir is not such a popular issue among international muslim poupulation.

Have you closely read your rebuttal?

Yup read it twice , so what?

You can't even spell correctly and now you claim intellectual superiority?

That said by you .. err
Now what are you blabbering, trying to skirt around issues when you cant debate eh

wishful thinking from a bharati fanatic

Bharat fanatic .. hmm I did not know that ....

these militants had nothing to do when we tried to make peace with india. i'm sure if the govt. gave them a job to do in kashmir, they'd be willing to rise up to the occasion.

Nope you have simply shot yourselves in your legs trying to ferment Jihad. Nearly a thousand citizens of your country died during terrorist attacks in a single year. They have attempted to assasinate Muharaff and have succeeded in assasinating Bhutto . Most of them are have their hands full in ethnic seperatism . They are constantly hunted down in WOT . Pakistan haas realised that it is not in their interest to to pursue te policy of millitancy and has come doem to talk. so prove me other wise.

You have your own indigenous jihadi outfits to worry about and i'm not talking about kashmir

Hmm interesting, who would they be?

this isn't my problem, I'm certain the kashmiris have had enough putting up with your akhand bharat ideology.

Akhanda bharat my foot , who gives rats arse to Akhanda bharath.

Just thought I might mention this again for everyone to see.

It would be better if you can put up with me debating rather then skirting around and taking it to a personel level.

I think we're dealing with a child here, I wonder if the mods have checked up with his parents considering he's under 18

Never mind .. not worth replying

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Yeah make sure you tell kashmiris that, .

Sure . listen ya all those of ya living in Indian Kashmir . I own Indian Kashmir as much as you ... now what?

instead of trying to portray yourself as the saviour of the kashmiri people in bollywood

I dont care about them in the first place , why should I portray myself as their saviour.
PS: I prefer Tamil, telugu and malyalam movies to bollywood(truck loads of junk) the same bollywood whose movies you guys watch like crazy through black market.

It's funny someone called me a "war-monger",

Too bad ... sorry for you.

while this akhand bharat fanatic runs around claiming the indian sub-continent for himself and "Jai Hind".

Dont know about that Akhanda bhatath Fanatic , but yeah India belongs to Indians just like Balochistan belongs to Pakistan and just like Jaffana belongs to SL.

PS: I dont say Jai hind... its kind of funny when you say that.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Malang:

Please read UN resolutions in fact Pakistan and China have to give up their Kashmir's .. and India can station in undivided Kashmir a billion troops and delay elections for millenniums..

Not sure if we are referring to the same resolution, but there is a comprehensive thread on the issue here: www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/7904-kashmir-resolutions-explanations.html

Roadrunners explanation on that thread of the part relating to the withdrawal of forces:

When the Commission shall have notified the Government of India that the tribesmen and Pakistani nationals referred to in Part II, A, 2 hereof have withdrawn, thereby terminating the situation which was represented by the Government of India to the Security Council as having occasioned the presence of Indian forces in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, and further, that the Pakistani forces are being withdrawn from the State of Jammu and Kashmir, the Government of India agrees to begin to withdraw the bulk of its forces from that State in stages to be agreed upon with the Commission.- CHECK - "are being withdrawn", when Pakistani troops ARE BEING withdrawn, then India must agree to reduce its troops. [/COLOR]

But did it? Answer is next.

Onto 1952, and Pakistani troops were being withdrawn, now UNCIP asks India to reduce its troops as per resolution 47 above.

UN resolution 98 of 23RD December 1952
Urges the Governments of India and Pakistan to enter into immediate negotiations under the auspices of the United Nations Representative for India and Pakistan in order to reach agreement on the specific number of forces to remain on each side of the cease-fire line at the end of the period of demilitarization, this number to be between 3,000 and 6,000 armed forces remaining on the Pakistan side of the cease-fire line and between 12,000 and 18,000 armed forces remaining on the India side of the cease-fire line, as suggested by the United Nations Representative in his proposals of 16 July 1952, such specific numbers to be arrived at bearing in mind the principles or criteria contained in paragraph 7 of the United Nations Representative's proposal of 4 September 1952

But oh no, did it agree to reduce its troops? Here are those words again
UNCIP representative: "in the end I became convinced that India’s agreement would never be obtained to demilitarization in any form or to provisions governing the period of plebiscite of such character, as would in my opinion, permit the plebiscite being conducted in conditions sufficiently guarding against intimidation and other forms of influence and abuse by which freedom and fairness of the plebiscite might be imperiled."
UNCIP chief representative

 

[Malang]

1. what about india's psychological warfare against the kashmiri people?
2. what about the women who were raped by indian soldiers?
3. what about women instructed to carry knives to guard their chastisy?
4. what about the unaccounted dissappearances of thousands of kashmiri's?
5. what about the children who were murdered by indian soldiers?
6. what about the elections being rigged and unusual prolonged rule of the indian-favoured politicians?
7. what about the ikhwanu muslimeen attacking police regiments?
8. do you think kashmiris on this board and those who speak against indian rule are brainwashed?

are you going to answer my questions?

Again, you will only hear what you want to hear. Kashmiri's being killed by fighters and pandits being displaced.

same goes for you...

Like I said earlier letting these groups run unchecked without a purpose will hurt pakistan. that's why getting back at india is really starting to look attractive. after all, it is a tit-for-tat game between pakistan and india as one member suggested.

Don't worry they will hurt you more in the long run, this is the law of terrorism.

whatever, pretty tall claims for one who supports forceful occupation of kashmir.

forceful? I think the 100,000 soldiers are there to protect Kashmir and Kashmiris, it is a border state after all.

i don't think you got the memo here, to some people terrorists are freedom fighters. you using any argument relating to my views and pakistan, won't change this fact.

In the end truth triumphs. Gandhi was called a terrorist too..

to some balochi's, bughti is a freedom fighter. to some other people, he's a terrorist. oh yeah, and mehsud isn't much of a freedom fighter as he is a terrorist.

Nope Mehsud is a freedom fighter to some..

how do you know kashmiri's are sick of action against indian troops? Why are kashmiri's protesting indian disruption of pakistani channels? Why do the kashmiri's protest indian soldiers constructing mosques?

Again, you will only hear what you want to hear.

You took the words right out of my mouth, "of that even under the threat of being shot they vote".

yes being shot by the terrorists that is why there is massive troop deployments along the booths to protect the Kashmiri voters.
You just shot yourself in the foot.

no, indian soldiers deny most of the accusations against women. again, even if these ludicrous records are true about kashmiri women being abducted by terrorists, that doesn't make it "okay" for indian soldiers to rape women as they please.

who is saying it makes okay for them? If they are proved guilty they are court martialled.

plebiscite wasn't held under the excuse of india holding rigged elections.

yes and for this India was to be allowed as many troops and as much time as they felt fit.

good one, i bet it's biased reporting or a conspiracy theory, right?

I said the inquiry is on..

don't waste our time with pathetic line after line replies, it get's lame after a while. no argument is going to go in your favour of kashmiri's supporting indian rule. that's just about the worst pathetic crap I've heard from a hindutva fanatic running amuck with a picture of Rumi.

This is the worst pathetic crap I have heard from a follower of the Prophet, you are nothing but a terrorist masquerading as a Muslim.

we have a quite a large representation of kashmiri's participating on this board, i've yet to see anyone who doesn't favour violence against indian occupation.

Azad Kashmiris are Mirpuris or Pahari Punjabis, caste wise, culture wise, ethnically or linguistically they are different from Kashmiris.

 

[Malang]

I was referring to this resolution.

RESOLUTION 47 (1948) ON THE INDIA-PAKISTAN QUESTION SUBMITTED JOINTLY BY THE REPRESENTATIVES OF BELGIUM, CANADA, CHINA, COLUMBIA, THE UNITED KINGDOM AND UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND ADOPTED BY THE SECURITY COUNCIL AT ITS 286TH MEETING HELD ON 21 APRIL 1948. (DOCUMENT NO. S/726 DATED 21 APRIL 1948).

2. The Government of India should:
(a) When it is established to the satisfaction of the Commission set up in accordance with the Council's Resolution 39 (1948) that the tribesmen are withdrawing and that arrangements for the cessation of the fighting have become effective, put into operation in consultation with the Commission a plan for withdrawing their own forces from Jammu and Kashmir and reducing them progressively to the minimum strength required for the support of the civil power in the maintenance of law and order;

this is ambiguous.

I will try and look up others too.

In any case Simla agreement overrides most of the UN resolutions and Pakistan is in the wrong to support terrorism and Pakistan was in the wrong for Kargil debacle.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

are you going to answer my questions?

when are you going to answer mine?

Don't worry they will hurt you more in the long run, this is the law of terrorism.

actually things are looking up now.

forceful? I think the 100,000 soldiers are there to protect Kashmir and Kashmiris, it is a border state after all.

Protect kashmiri's from themselves, you mean?

Nope Mehsud is a freedom fighter to some..

not even to his own tribe, actually. he's more like a monster to his own tribe and the tribes around him.

Again, you will only hear what you want to hear.

Yes, that's right. you will hear what you want to hear, remember that.

yes being shot by the terrorists that is why there is massive troop deployments along the booths to protect the Kashmiri voters.
You just shot yourself in the foot.

No, I shot you in the head. Kashmiri's were forced to vote by Indians against their will in the election. Besides that, there was a low turn out anyway. It's quite similar to Musharraf, a dictator, winning the elections a while ago, unopposed.

Had indians actually held a plebiscite, kashmir would have been a part of pakistan a long time ago. that's why holding an election is ideal for indians, they can terrorize the people into voting for india.

who is saying it makes okay for them? If they are proved guilty they are court martialled.

that's rarely done, hundreds of women are raped at the hands of these soldiers. young girls are now being instructed to carry knives to gaurd their chastisy. You are actually saying it's okay for them, otherwise you would have argued against troops in kashmir.

yes and for this India was to be allowed as many troops and as much time as they felt fit.

exactly as I said above.

This is the worst pathetic crap I have heard from a follower of the Prophet, you are nothing but a terrorist masquerading as a Muslim.

At least I stand up for kashmiri's, so i feel their suffering and pain. One who wakes up and does not care for the affairs of the muslims is not one of us.

You have been posting crap on a couple of threads, dealing from India as one nation since ancient times all the way to kashmiri's screaming to be a part of india even after they've been tortured by indians and killed.

Everyone here knows, you're just a akhand bharat fanatic. You just want land, so that you can usurp that land in the name of hindu supremacy. you want estabilish your dominance from persia all the way to indonesia.

Azad Kashmiris are Mirpuris or Pahari Punjabis, caste wise, culture wise, ethnically or linguistically they are different from Kashmiris.

Soon, you will claim most kashmiri's are pandits and afghani's are indian. that's BS, azad kashmir is full with kashmiri's, mainly from the kashmir valley.

Northern areas is what you're talking about, they're not kashmiri.

 

[dabong1]

Azad Kashmiris are Mirpuris or Pahari Punjabis, caste wise, culture wise, ethnically or linguistically they are different from Kashmiris.

You have not got a clue what you are talking about.
My family came from IOK and moved to mirpur....like a large minority of people in AJK who are all from IOK.

 

[dabong1]

Utter BS, Kashmiri struggle completely depends on Pakistani fighters, finance and support, you have had a habit of sacrificing them for your cause.

Dream on....the kashmiris are fightimg with the help of there fellow pakistani brothers.
You forget the vast amount of money that is being spent on the struggle comes from expat kashmiris as well as the pak govt.