Bangladesh wants to buy Russia’s Yak-130 & SU-27 !

[jahidus2005]

what india has to do with some purchase?
pathetic way to seek attention.

man calm down bcz they see as bangladesh is under indian territory and pakistan see us as a closest allies

 

[mb444]

Loads of countries operate Russian fighters do that may have swayed BAF.

I thought there were still some question marks surrounding Chinese engines..... But I think it would be good for BAF to explore the J10 if it is ready...

 

[Zabaniyah]

Again you are whining like a woman or probably a Hijra. What is there about your paying salary. Do you think PDF posters are the govt of Bangladesh? This is a defence forum and it is an open forum. We must support our military decision on purchasing matters. We should not open our legs for Indians to do things. This has become your personal character. But, do not ask others to follow your swine example. Bloody troller!!! you do not know anything about even economics, which you claim is your subject. But, here you talk as if you are the sole authority to shame our defence forces. Bloody traitor swine!!!

Okay old man, you done with your cheap insults and satisfied now?

The J-10B is being sold to Pakistan.

Loads of countries operate Russian fighters do that may have swayed BAF.

I thought there were still some question marks surrounding Chinese engines..... But I think it would be good for BAF to explore the J10 if it is ready...

Here's an interesting piece offering more insight into the matter:

China’s Warplane Industry Expands


Source: Aviation Week & Space Technology

November 05, 2012

Bill Sweetman - Washington


A half-dozen years ago, China's aircraft industry had not delivered a single competitive, operational fighter of its own design. Today, two are in service—the low-cost JF-17 and the J-10, the latter apparently comparable to most current in-production fighters—and China is still delivering bargain-basement fighters evolved from the classic Mikoyan MiG-21. The country's industry has developed an indigenous version of the Su-27 (the Russians might call it something less creditable) and is in the process of doing the same with the carrier-based member of the family, the Su-33.

Moreover, the Chengdu and Shenyang design teams have produced prototypes of two next-generation combat aircraft incorporating stealth technology, in the form of the canard-delta J-20 and the Lockheed Martin-influenced design identified as the J-31. An expanding range of air-launched missiles has been developed for the new fighters, together with new-generation sensors including active, electronically scanned array (AESA) radars and infrared search-and-track (IRST) systems.

China's flagship international fighter program is the JF-17 Thunder, developed and produced by Chengdu in cooperation with Pakistan, which has used it as a vehicle to create and grow its government-operated industry. It evolved from a series of Chinese studies of radically modified MiG-21s but was an entirely new aircraft by the time the design was unveiled at the Paris air show in 1999. In the same year, Pakistan signed the initial co-development agreement with China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corp.(Catic).

“At the start of the project, Pakistan had no industrial or technological base,” Pakistan air force then-chief of staff Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman said at a conference last year. However, he noted that Pakistan has participated in all stages of the design and helped develop the requirement for the fighter. The design was defined in 2001 and first flight took place in 2003, six prototypes were followed by a batch of eight Chinese-built aircraft for evaluation. Production in Pakistan started in 2005 and the first locally built aircraft rolled out in November 2009. According to Suleman, the type's performance “exceeded expectations,” leading to a decision to perform tests and introduce it into service in parallel.

Pakistan's goal is to replace its “vintage” fleet, comprising more than 250 Mirages and older Chinese F-7 and A-5III fighters, with JF-17s. The first batch of 42 aircraft, the last of them delivered earlier this year, replaced the A-5IIIs (a 1970s-era Chinese development of the MiG-19), equipping three squadrons. Overall, Suleman says, the JF-17 should allow the air force to replace its older fleet (not necessarily one-for-one, given the much greater capability of the new aircraft) at “one-third to one-fourth” the acquisition cost of any other modern fighter, with a similar savings in operating cost.

The JF-17 has been displayed at the Dubai and Farnborough air shows, and Pakistan's industry has talked to avionics suppliers worldwide about providing systems for the aircraft. According to the Russian media, the original contract for the fighter's RD-93 engine covered 100 powerplants with an option for 500 more, and an uprated 20,500-lb.-thrust version, the RD-93MA, is under development. Meanwhile, one JF-17 is reported to be flying in China with the Guizhou WS-13 engine.

Still under negotiation is the sale to Pakistan of the larger Chengdu J-10B, a modernized version of the canard-delta J-10. Although Pakistani interest in the J-10 has been reported since 2006, no firm deal has been announced. The most recent reports suggest that China has offered a squadron of J-10Bs. The new version differs from the original in featuring an AESA radar, IRST, a diverterless inlet and underwing fairings that point to an improved electronic-warfare suite.

Unlike the JF-17, neither the J-10 nor the J-10B has been demonstrated outside China. The J-10B's existence is known only via Internet leaks, but its existence makes the J-10 look like a sunset program. Also, the production of the J-10 still depends on Russian engine supplies.

China has ordered a total of 399 AL-31FN engines from Russia, according to Stockholm International Peace Research Institute data; its most recent order, for 123 engines, was placed last year. Of those, 276 had been delivered by 2011. Most of these power 220-plus J-10s, but others have been used in the Shenyang J-11B and J-15—the “bootleg” versions, respectively, of the Su-27 and Su-33. The indigenous WS-10A Taihang engine is under development and reported to be under test on J-10B and J-11B prototypes, but the 2011 order, covering four years of J-10 production at the rates seen so far, suggests that full production quantities of the WS-10A are not expected until 2015.

Technologically, the J-10B may be a stepping-stone to the J-20 and J-31. The status of China's stealth program has not become much clearer since the surprise appearance of the heavyweight J-20 at the end of 2010. However, the unveiling of the smaller—roughly Joint Strike Fighter-sized—J-31 points to the two designs being complementary, rather than alternatives. Despite their different shapes and sizes, the J-20 and J-31 are similar in that they appear to have advanced beyond the stage of being pure technology demonstrators. Both are larger than the J-10, pointing to a future three-level force mix.

In the next few years, the pace of Chinese fighter development may be set by the resources available and the sheer number of programs. In 2005, China had three major fighter projects underway: the JF-17, J-10 and J-11B. Today, it has the J-10B and J-15, and both Chengdu and Shenyang have challenging stealth programs.

An older fighter that apparently remains in production is the Chengdu J-7, developed from the MiG-21, but with changes including a double-delta, slatted wing and new canopy. In 2011, the Bangladeshi air force announced that it would be taking delivery this year of a squadron of 15 F-7BGI fighters, equipped with a three-screen glass cockpit, head-up display and hands-on-throttle-and-stick controls. These will begin to replace the mixed force of older F-7s, A-5IIIs and MiG-29s.

As concluded by the site's think tank chairman - fatman:

this article confirms;

1. 3 sqn's of JFT are ready.
2. chinese engines are still 2-3 years away from mass production.
3. J-10B is the way forward as J-10's been referred to as a 'sunset program'.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/3218-j-10-fc-20-mrca-399.html

It appears that the two key factors limiting PAF's quick adoption of the J-10B is 1) money and 2) the lack of Chinese-made engines.

The J-10B and the systems within it are by no means "cheap". And it is still a relatively new aircraft.

Using Russian engines on a Chinese plane is too risky. And it harms the product's feasibility on the international arms market in the long term.

I also believe that the concluding part about the Chinese being 2-3 years away from mass-producing engines is a little too optimistic. It may take longer.

Now, as far as Bangladesh is concerned - it is unlikely that that J-10B would be offered to us for a long time. If BAF wants a quick solution, Russian jets are the best for now.

Not saying the J-10 is bad, but it is just not optimal given the current limitations from the manufacturer, and perhaps issues within the senior political leadership as many suspect.

By the way, the last part about BAF using the BGI along with the A-5 is incorrect. The BGI would replace the A-5s.

 

[Avisheik]

The J-10B is being sold to Pakistan.

While it is not certain whether China will sell to BD, it does not seem like the attempt has been made. Awami league seems to have made the decision that all BD 4th generation jets will come from Russia.

J-10B is a upgrade to the J-10A with the more powerful WS-10A/B engine, AESA radar etc. It is therefore a newer version of the J-10A which has been in service for nearly 10 years now and not a totally new aircraft.

If the Chinese did not think that the J-10 was a good fighter then they would not have already produced around 250 of the J-10A version and now getting ready to produce hundreds of the J-10B version.

I do not think that the Russian fighters are bad, just that the J-10B/SU-30 would make for a far better mix than the Mig-29/Su-30.

Pakistan is a very close ally of china. We are not.

The decision to buy the aircraft could be carried out due to the $850 million dollar deal. This deal was made possible due to the gazprom deal and furthermore it is tied to the nuclear power plant. AL or BNP, this deal is here to stay.

The J 10 is a new aircraft. It was being developed for around 24 years. However, it only became operational recently(2006). Before that they were still going through operational evaluation.


J 10s are coming in and F7s and fantans are going out.


All in all, J 10 is a good fighter looking from its specs. However it is a brand new platform and yet to prove itself in battle. Migs and sukhois on the other hand is combat experienced planes. Given our limited budget, we will not go for J10 now. But perhaps we will go for it in the future

 

[Avisheik]

Loads of countries operate Russian fighters do that may have swayed BAF.

I thought there were still some question marks surrounding Chinese engines..... But I think it would be good for BAF to explore the J10 if it is ready...

We have only a few 4th gen suppliers in the world

1) America
2) Russia
3) Europe
4) China

We cant buy fighter jets from America, for the obvious reasons.

As for Russia, they will sell their jets for reasonable price( prices that we can actually afford)

European planes are too darn expensive. Furthermore planes like the gripen have american parts.

China sells cheap as reasonably priced jets. But the platforms are quiet new.

So yeah russia is a clear winner here for fighter jets, for now. As china's jet platforms mature, we might go for china's planes

 

[livingdead]

^^^ what is the obvous reason for not buy from USA?

 

[mb444]

Hinduguy,

Pricey, wont offer all the available options but more importantly weapons purchase comes with political conditions. It's not a straight sale, strategically BD would not want to be too tied to any country thereby minimising our strategic independence.

 

[Zabaniyah]

^^^ what is the obvous reason for not buy from USA?

I don't know.

What is the obvious reason India did not buy F-16s and F-18s?

As you already know, advanced American weapons come with plenty of political strings.

We did ask for F-16s before during the Ershad-era.
http://www.f-16.net/news_article188.html

The matter was discussed here:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/113695-u-s-refused-sell-f-16s-bangladesh.html

Right now, unconfirmed sources state that the Americans were willing to offer us the Block 40 variant.

Also, it is unlikely that they'd offer us the AMRAAM BVR missile. It is hard to get that, and takes time and money. Not optimal for a cash-strapped air force like BAF.

Additionally, much of our current infrastructure, systems, radars and avionics are compatible with Russian and Chinese war planes.

Adding Western jets would require a complete revamp. American planes require more infrastructure than Russian ones.

Again, not optimal for a cash-strapped air force like BAF.

And of-course, they are more expensive than Russian ones.

Way too much politics behind them.

I'm saying this even though I personally prefer American weapons :/

 

[Hammer-fist]

1. The USA is generally unreliable and can turn against you as the Pakistanis - who are being bombed to pieces - know.

2. Price as mentioned above.

3. US planes and craft carry codes which the US knows and can apparently block.

4. US planes are network-centric yet again allowing the US the opportunity to apparently nullify exports.

To be honest I do not ever think there will be an India-BD war, a very unrealistic scenario (many reasons, India has no desire to annex us - though they do interefere in our politics and bully us - and Bangladeshis generally are calm and quiet people as most of the PDF Indians who actually work/mix with Bangladeshis can attest to. We have no delusions of grandeur or desire for territory, no regions we call our "Jugular vein" or Zaid Hamid types on TV calling for the conquest of the red fort). However a BD-Burma war is not totally impossible.

In that case it would be two sets of Russian fighter planes against each other.

We would easily win anyway as the Burmese army are pathetic and getting their ***** spanked by a few ragtag Kachin rebels in the north who have killed over 1,000 Burmese soldiers, the Mickey mouse Burmese army even use boy soldiers i.e. slave soldiers.

 

[Avisheik]

1. The USA is generally unreliable and can turn against you as the Pakistanis - who are being bombed to pieces - know.

2. Price as mentioned above.

3. US planes and craft carry codes which the US knows and can apparently block.

4. US planes are network-centric yet again allowing the US the opportunity to apparently nullify exports.

To be honest I do not ever think there will be an India-BD war, a very unrealistic scenario (many reasons, India has no desire to annex us - though they do interefere in our politics and bully us - and Bangladeshis generally are calm and quiet people as most of the PDF Indians who actually work/mix with Bangladeshis can attest to. We have no delusions of grandeur or desire for territory, no regions we call our "Jugular vein" or Zaid Hamid types on TV calling for the conquest of the red fort). However a BD-Burma war is not totally impossible.

In that case it would be two sets of Russian fighter planes against each other.

We would easily win anyway as the Burmese army are pathetic and getting their ***** spanked by a few ragtag Kachin rebels in the north who have killed over 1,000 Burmese soldiers, the Mickey mouse Burmese army even use boy soldiers i.e. slave soldiers.

Not really. Burmese air force has an edge over us. And this edge is a huge advantage for them.

Furthermore, rebels use guerrilla warfare and can easily blend into the crowd and they know their geography very well. The same cannot be said for a professional army from another country.

Anyway the possibility of war between bangladesh and burma is very low. We already solved our territorial disputes and the only thorn in our relation is the rohingya issue.

 

[Hammer-fist]

1. Yes the possibility of war between Burma and Bangladesh is very low.

2. The Burmese apparently do have a stronger air force but in total war is not just about fighter planes as air defence systems come in to play as does ground warfare. We have the advantage as on the BD-Burma border we have higher altitude and the defender always has the advantage.

Also we disarmed the Rohingyas over 10 years ago post 9-11 under the BNP regime of that time. All we need to do is to provide the arms that we would use for our paramilitaries such as the Ansars and others to Rohingyas to wage war against the junta.

3. Yes the Kachins are engaged in guerilla warfare but the Burmese army in general are weak and poorly trained even in the case of a conventional frontal war between two regular armies.

4. The only major issue between us is the Rohingya issue and if the Burmese junta revert to their pre-1982 policies of citizenship for Burmese of Rohingya ethnicity there is no problem.

If the Burmese junta ever made the grave mistake of starting war with us they would face humiliation that they would never forget just as the Pakistanis today are still burning over 1971, or the Indians over partition (a partition spearheaded by Bengalis). Burma would collapse and a new multi-ethnic Switzerland style confederacy would come in to being as a result of the Bangladeshi defeat of Burma.

 

[alaungphaya]

What is the state of your SAM network? Do you have many anti-aircraft batteries?

 

[Zabaniyah]

What is the state of your SAM network? Do you have many anti-aircraft batteries?

Yes, the FM-90 (point defense) and in the process of acquiring LY-60.

I understand Myanmar has a pretty well grounded SAM network.

 

[Hammer-fist]

Everyone please ignore the troll. We Bangladeshis have better things to do than go down to the level of chatting to exponents of war crimes, collective punishment, mass ethnic cleansing from failed states with boy soldiers.

Burmese boy soldier in the super-duper powerful Burmese "army".

 

[alaungphaya]

Yes, the FM-90 (point defense) and in the process of acquiring LY-60.

I understand Myanmar has a pretty well grounded SAM network.

Yep. The gov placed a heavy emphasis on multi-range SAMs in the past decade. They've set up quite a dense network but not many in the West AFAIK.