Bangladesh Navy

[Bilal9]

Absolutely rubbish idea. Even suicidal if we consider C-28A as frigate. It's surprising that people still want warship armed with FM-90 SAM. There are lot better options (2000+ tons-3000 tons) available from British, Dutch, French, Italian, Korean, Turkish and even from Chinese shipbuilders. AFAIK the Tiger class frigate concept by CSOC is also based on the hull of C-28A and has 16 VLS. BN urgently needs larger frigate with more and stronger air defense capability. 8/16 cells are only ideal for heavy corvette/light frigate which BN needs in it's corvette fleet.

I ask that you don't use that Muhith-favorite word - 'Rubbish'.

Brings back bad memories.

However point well taken. The idea I put forth was about displacement and mission endurance, not armament (such as VLS). Not challenging you - but if you could enlighten us on how a 4000 ton frigate (compared to this 3000 ton one) would be a better idea for our Navy.

 

[Bilal9]

These designs were finalists for Bangladesh Navy's new generation frigate program:

• Belharra class (France)

The design was and still is rather avant-garde when we have no experience building frigates. Being French and from DCNS, the ToT will be difficult (and expensive) because of maturity differential between our industrial sectors. Our private sector may need to get involved as they have more experience with engine/technology integration.

• Gepard 3.9 class (Russia)

Very light at 2500 tons, but is proven now as seen in cruise missile attacks on IS targets in Syria. Design a bit dated and not 'stealthy'.

The Russians do have a nice recent 4500 ton design called the Admiral Gorshkov class, which is better than the Gepard class designs. But getting ToT for that one might be a stretch. Here's an illustration.

• Incheon class (Modified) - South Korea

Design and setup is dated now - no VLS system up front. Still 3000 tons. Not a favorite but could be attractive price-wise (not as attractive though as China CSOC offerings). Not a fan.

Daegu class displacing 3600 tons is a successor to this design with VLS. More expensive that Chinese but not as expensive as DCNS or S'pore offerings. Equipped with DRS Hybrid Electric Drive system, coupled with Rolls-Royce MT-30 gas turbine engine for CODLAG integrated full-electric propulsion. This is a brand new avant garde propulsion system, translated as expensive and reliant on foreign spares. Not a great option unless propulsion is changed to CODAG or so legacy option. Heavily based on US sensors and armament, which means trouble.

• Sovereign class - Singapore

Modern design at 3000 tons. I like it although small. Could be enlarged (scaled up). Singapore's own navy has the most modern ships - even more modern than US Navy by far. Resembles the US LCS class stealth design, nice layout. ST engg. is a world class institution but their experience in building modern warships is limited to assembling their own 'Formidable class' frigates. ToT may be much easier to get, as easy as China. More modern than other designs here (except Belharra). But will not be as economical as China option.

• Tiger class (China)

On paper not a bad design, hull is based on C28A and has VLS. In many respects. ideal for us. This is an evolution of the F-22P Zulfiqar class, but with a newer, stealthier (i.e. lower radar cross-section) hull coupled with a 16-cell vertical-launch system (VLS) for surface-to-air missiles (SAM). Tiger-class has a displacement of 2,780 tons and can be equipped with dual quad-cell (2×4) AShM launchers, two triple (2×3) anti-submarine warfare (ASW) torpedo-launchers, a 76-mm main gun, a 30-mm gun and 24-cell point-defence missile system (PDMS). The Tiger-class can reach a top speed of 27 knots and a ferry range of 4,000 nm at 15 knots.

I am okay with the tiger class design, but I like the large 4000 ton frigate design better (see below), also released by CSOC at Lima 2017.

CSOC’s 4,000-ton multi-mission frigate design retains the AShW and ASW capabilities of its sibling designs, coupling them with a 32-cell VLS system for SAMs. It is considered a variant of the Type 054, but with a “renewed superstructure” (IHS Jane’s). It will feature a phased-array radar with a complementary over-the-horizon (OTH) radar for long-range passive surveillance of aerial and surface targets.

 

[Bilal9]

Oh one more 4000 ton contender, the Venator design from BMT in Great Britain. This has also been sold to Omani Navy as the Khareef class Heavy OPV (2600 tons). Again - like the Korean option, armament and sensors are Western Origin.

This is the Venator Frigate version

Here is the page at the vendor,
https://www.bmt.org/industries/defence-and-security/surface-systems/bmt-venator-110-frigate/

Before anyone jumps in here starting to criticize about the missile placement vs. the VLS, this documentation is from 2013 as designed then. I am sure they can make provisions for VLS changes as supplied by VLS vendors.

Venator-110 general-purpose light frigate is one of the three design variants of the Venator-110 platform developed by BMT Defence Services to fulfil a wide range of mission needs of naval and coastguard forces.

With its advanced weapon configurations, the Venator-110 light frigate performs maritime security, naval boarding, combat, close consort defence, and support missions to other naval units.

The warship was unveiled at the DSEI 2013 international defence and security exhibition held in London, UK, in September 2013. It was recently demonstrated to international customers at the Pacific 2017 maritime exhibition and conference held in Australia.

The frigate is being offered to the British Royal Navy’s Type 31e general-purpose frigate programme.

Venator-110 light frigate design and features
The Venator-110 general-purpose light frigate’s hull is designed to operate globally at different speeds in varying sea states and environmental conditions. The vessel has an overall length of 117m, draught of 4.3m, beam of 18m, and displacement of 4,000t.

It can accommodate up to 106 personnel, including 85 crew members, ten helicopter operation and maintenance workers, and 11 optional marine boarding teams. It can also hold 18 interim operations personnel.

The ship also carries four large rigid-hulled inflatable boats (RHIBs) to support a wide range of capabilities at sea.

A flight deck and hangar is provided at the stern for the operation of a medium-sized helicopter such as the NH90, SH-60 Seahawk, AW101 Merlin, AW159 Wildcat, and other future aviation platforms.

Weaponry onboard Venator-110 frigate
The multi-mission frigate’s modular design allows for the integration of various weapons and decoys based on mission requirements. The weapon options include 30mm or 40mm cannons, close-in weapon systems (CIWS), soft-kill decoys, lightweight surface-to-surface and surface-to-air missiles, as well as a medium-caliber gun system.

The medium-caliber naval cannon mount located in the bow provides the frigate with anti-surface and anti-aircraft capabilities.

“The vessel offers a maximum speed of 25kt and is capable of travelling a distance of 6,000nm at 15kt.”
The vessel comes with different vertical-launch silo (VLS) options, including two or three units of three-cell Lockheed Martin ExLS VLS or a combination of two units of three-cell Extensible Launching System (ExLS) VLS and a single eight-cell Lockheed Martin Mk41 Strike Length VLS. Each cell houses up to four MBDA Sea Ceptor missiles.

Navigation bridge
An integrated navigation and bridge system (INBS) developed by Raytheon Anschütz is installed in the middle of the ship to manage and control the vessel’s operations.

Featuring an IMO-certified navigation system, the INBS integrates with the ship’s combat management system (CMS) and integrated platform management system (IPMS).

An additional mission bay is provided adjacent to the RHIBs to further increase mission flexibility.

Sensors on-board Venator-110 frigate
The Venator-110 general-purpose light frigate incorporates different types of sensors to target, engage, and destroy a range of maritime and air targets.

The sensors include variable-depth towed-array sonar, hull-mounted sonar, multi-role surveillance radars, laser-warning system, radar and electro-optical fire control director, and active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars. It also includes an infrared search and track (IRST) system, electronic support measures (ESM), communications intelligence (COMINT), and electronic intelligence (ELINT) systems.

Venator-110 warship propulsion and performance
The frigate is equipped with a combined diesel and diesel (CODAD) propulsion system consisting of four diesel engines, two independent shaft lines, and controllable pitch propellers.

The vessel offers a maximum speed of 25kt and is capable of travelling a distance of 6,000nm at 15kt.

Venator-110 variants
Two other variants of the Venator-110 platform are the Venator-110 patrol frigate and Venator-110 patrol ship.

The Venator-110 patrol frigate is intended for use by the naval forces to perform tasks such as maritime security, regional enforcement, as well as intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) in a low-threat environment.

The Venator-110 variant is suited for coastguard applications, including counter-terrorism, humanitarian assistance, disaster relief, evacuation of entitled personnel, and maritime protection.

 

[Nike]

These designs were finalists for Bangladesh Navy's new generation frigate program:

• Belharra class (France)

The design was and still is rather avant-garde when we have no experience building frigates. Being French and from DCNS, the ToT will be difficult (and expensive) because of maturity differential between our industrial sectors. Our private sector may need to get involved as they have more experience with engine/technology integration.

• Gepard 3.9 class (Russia)

Very light at 2500 tons, but is proven now as seen in cruise missile attacks on IS targets in Syria. Design a bit dated and not 'stealthy'.

The Russians do have a nice recent 4500 ton design called the Admiral Gorshkov class, which is better than the Gepard class designs. But getting ToT for that one might be a stretch. Here's an illustration.

• Incheon class (Modified) - South Korea

Design and setup is dated now - no VLS system up front. Still 3000 tons. Not a favorite but could be attractive price-wise (not as attractive though as China CSOC offerings). Not a fan.

Daegu class displacing 3600 tons is a successor to this design with VLS. More expensive that Chinese but not as expensive as DCNS or S'pore offerings. Equipped with DRS Hybrid Electric Drive system, coupled with Rolls-Royce MT-30 gas turbine engine for CODLAG integrated full-electric propulsion. This is a brand new avant garde propulsion system, translated as expensive and reliant on foreign spares. Not a great option unless propulsion is changed to CODAG or so legacy option. Heavily based on US sensors and armament, which means trouble.

• Sovereign class - Singapore

Modern design at 3000 tons. I like it although small. Could be enlarged (scaled up). Singapore's own navy has the most modern ships - even more modern than US Navy by far. Resembles the US LCS class stealth design, nice layout. ST engg. is a world class institution but their experience in building modern warships is limited to assembling their own 'Formidable class' frigates. ToT may be much easier to get, as easy as China. More modern than other designs here (except Belharra). But will not be as economical as China option.

• Tiger class (China)

On paper not a bad design, hull is based on C28A and has VLS. In many respects. ideal for us. This is an evolution of the F-22P Zulfiqar class, but with a newer, stealthier (i.e. lower radar cross-section) hull coupled with a 16-cell vertical-launch system (VLS) for surface-to-air missiles (SAM). Tiger-class has a displacement of 2,780 tons and can be equipped with dual quad-cell (2×4) AShM launchers, two triple (2×3) anti-submarine warfare (ASW) torpedo-launchers, a 76-mm main gun, a 30-mm gun and 24-cell point-defence missile system (PDMS). The Tiger-class can reach a top speed of 27 knots and a ferry range of 4,000 nm at 15 knots.

I am okay with the tiger class design, but I like the large 4000 ton frigate design better (see below), also released by CSOC at Lima 2017.

CSOC’s 4,000-ton multi-mission frigate design retains the AShW and ASW capabilities of its sibling designs, coupling them with a 32-cell VLS system for SAMs. It is considered a variant of the Type 054, but with a “renewed superstructure” (IHS Jane’s). It will feature a phased-array radar with a complementary over-the-horizon (OTH) radar for long-range passive surveillance of aerial and surface targets.

Bangladesh should stick with Chinese design, as your corvettes, submarines, air defense system, air force units and Naval infrastructure almost all of them came from China. It was easier to integrate Chinese system for the already established units in Bangladesh

 

[Arthur]

Bangladesh should stick with Chinese design, as your corvettes, submarines, air defense system, air force units and Naval infrastructure almost all of them came from China. It was easier to integrate Chinese system for the already established units in Bangladesh

Bangladesh Navy developed it's own network integration solutions. they developed a Data link called BD-22 equivalent to NATO Link 16 with help from a Spanish company while an IFF system was developed with help from China. These systems will be standarised onboard all it's ship's & aircraft.

 

[Michael Corleone]

I ask that you don't use that Muhith-favorite word - 'Rubbish'.

Brings back bad memories.

However point well taken. The idea I put forth was about displacement and mission endurance, not armament (such as VLS). Not challenging you - but if you could enlighten us on how a 4000 ton frigate (compared to this 3000 ton one) would be a better idea for our Navy.

Endurance and better fire control range for longer amounts of time. Type 054B I reckon is planned to have increased displacement to house dedicated power generation for AESA radars that can work 100% of the time of deployment

Bangladesh should stick with Chinese design, as your corvettes, submarines, air defense system, air force units and Naval infrastructure almost all of them came from China. It was easier to integrate Chinese system for the already established units in Bangladesh

The hull is Chinese yes but many of the subsystems are western

 

[Bilal9]

Bangladesh should stick with Chinese design, as your corvettes, submarines, air defense system, air force units and Naval infrastructure almost all of them came from China. It was easier to integrate Chinese system for the already established units in Bangladesh

True, but as our Naval capabilities increase and demand for better systems go up, there is already more of a push to integrate Turkish (therefore,NATO-based) systems.

Just because we had Chinese systems for last three decades in the Navy, does not mean it has to remain that way for ALL systems always.

Chinese products are changing too, and they are no longer as economical as they used to be.

Eventually - hulls and superstructure (including weapons systems integration) for all Naval vessels will be made locally (up to a 1000 ton level they already are, for many years). Eventually, Bangladesh will design her own frigates and larger ships, Navy already has that capability. That is why we are looking for ToT for the six Frigates to be built locally.

 

[Bilal9]

One of the modified export versions of the 'Gwanggaeto the Great' class (Frigate size destroyer) from Korea is the HTMS Bhumibol Adulyadej - of the Royal Thai Navy displacing 3700 tons. The hull/superstructure was modified for a more stealthy profile compared to South Korean Navy specs. It boasts an 8-cell Mk. 41 VLS with the following specs:

• 32 × RIM-162 ESSM Block II in quad-packed max loadout
• 8 × RUM-139C VL ASROC
• Fitted for but not with SM-2MR Standard Missile

This vessel also boasts the following sensor suite, which is pretty comprehensive:

• 1 × Sea Giraffe 4A AESA long range surveillance radar
• 1 × Saab SEA GIRAFFE AMB medium range 3D surveillance radar
• 1 × Wartsila X-band Navigation radar
• 1 × Wartsila S-band Navigation radar
• 1 × Tactical Air Navigation System
• 1 × Surveillance camera
• 2 × Saab CEROS 200 fire control radar
• 1 × Saab EOS 500 Electro Optical Fire Control
• 1 × Atlas ASO DSQS-24 Hull Mounted Sonar
• 1 × Atlas ELEKTRONIK ACTAS Towed Array Sonar
• 15 × Saab 9LV Mk4 Multi-Function Consoles
• 2 × Continuous Wave Illuminators
• 2 × Target Designation Sight: Bridge Pointer
• 2 × Identification Friend or Foe
• 1 × ADS – Broadcast
• Stealth technology
• Radar Cross Section Reduction
• Infrared Reduction
• Underwater Radiated Noise Reduction
• Degaussing System
• NBC Protection System

In all - it would not be a misnomer to call this one of the most advanced multi-mission frigates in Asia, maybe even in the world today, along with the S'pore Navy Sovereign class.

 

[gom poa]

Worth the pain knowing the sufferings won't go in vain.
Find comfort in knowing that you don't have to sacrifice life so that some business tycoon have it easy,
nor you have to spare blood and sweat to protect some evil dictator.

 

[Nike]

One of the modified export versions of the 'Gwanggaeto the Great' class (Frigate size destroyer) from Korea is the HTMS Bhumibol Adulyadej - of the Royal Thai Navy displacing 3700 tons. The hull/superstructure was modified for a more stealthy profile compared to South Korean Navy specs. It boasts an 8-cell Mk. 41 VLS with the following specs:

• 32 × RIM-162 ESSM Block II in quad-packed max loadout
• 8 × RUM-139C VL ASROC
• Fitted for but not with SM-2MR Standard Missile

This vessel also boasts the following sensor suite, which is pretty comprehensive:

• 1 × Sea Giraffe 4A AESA long range surveillance radar
• 1 × Saab SEA GIRAFFE AMB medium range 3D surveillance radar
• 1 × Wartsila X-band Navigation radar
• 1 × Wartsila S-band Navigation radar
• 1 × Tactical Air Navigation System
• 1 × Surveillance camera
• 2 × Saab CEROS 200 fire control radar
• 1 × Saab EOS 500 Electro Optical Fire Control
• 1 × Atlas ASO DSQS-24 Hull Mounted Sonar
• 1 × Atlas ELEKTRONIK ACTAS Towed Array Sonar
• 15 × Saab 9LV Mk4 Multi-Function Consoles
• 2 × Continuous Wave Illuminators
• 2 × Target Designation Sight: Bridge Pointer
• 2 × Identification Friend or Foe
• 1 × ADS – Broadcast
• Stealth technology
• Radar Cross Section Reduction
• Infrared Reduction
• Underwater Radiated Noise Reduction
• Degaussing System
• NBC Protection System

In all - it would not be a misnomer to call this one of the most advanced multi-mission frigates in Asia, maybe even in the world today, along with the S'pore Navy Sovereign class.

Pity they hold back the order for second frigate caused by covid 19, because their tourism industry got hit very hard.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Worth the pain knowing the sufferings won't go in vain.
Find comfort in knowing that you don't have to sacrifice life so that some business tycoon have it easy,
nor you have to spare blood and sweat to protect some evil dictator.

What’s with the music? To make people fall asleep or to piss them off? Because I would be pissed off

 

[Bilal9]

Pity they hold back the order for second frigate caused by covid 19, because their tourism industry got hit very hard.

Yes Covid affected not only tourism but also expatriate labor remittance payments. Our country's revenue also got affected, though I suspect not as badly as initially thought.

Like I said, if they bought the aircraft carrier back in the day, then where are the support vessels to make a fighting group?

This frigate is quite formidable with almost full US/EU weapons and sensor suite, but then where is the land/marine warfighting and combat networking planning?

Lot of interesting questions and not very many answers I am afraid.

If we have a Thai member, it'd be interesting to ask what led them to order this vessel, instead of other choices.

 

[monitor]

China can supply 4 more retired type53 H3 Frigates to Bangladesh as tgeyvare replacing them with more modern frigates and destroyer. It can be a stop gap before we induct brand new frigate.

 

[Nike]

Yes Covid affected not only tourism but also expatriate labor remittance payments. Our country's revenue also got affected, though I suspect not as badly as initially thought.

Like I said, if they bought the aircraft carrier back in the day, then where are the support vessels to make a fighting group?

This frigate is quite formidable with almost full US/EU weapons and sensor suite, but then where is the land/marine warfighting and combat networking planning?

Lot of interesting questions and not very many answers I am afraid.

If we have a Thai member, it'd be interesting to ask what led them to order this vessel, instead of other choices.

Thailand using solution offered by SAAB, their network C4ISR system is centered around SAAB solution per se with their GRIPPEN, F16 and erieye AEW radar system. If you look at their ground forces most of their air defense assets centered around European system Made and though their acquire Chinese Made and Ukraina Made MBT the battlefield management system they had using Swedish system if i recall from their local forum. This Frigate along with other Frigates they had all being networked with SAAB solution

https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/naresuan-class-guided-missile-frigates/

They had considerable strength of Marines Corps (two division level)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_Marine_Corps

 

[Bilal9]

Thailand using solution offered by SAAB, their network C4ISR system is centered around SAAB solution per se with their GRIPPEN, F16 and erieye AEW radar system. If you look at their ground forces most of their air defense assets centered around European system Made and though their acquire Chinese Made and Ukraina Made MBT the battlefield management system they had using Swedish system if i recall from their local forum. This Frigate along with other Frigates they had all being networked with SAAB solution

https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/naresuan-class-guided-missile-frigates/

They had considerable strength of Marines Corps (two division level)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_Marine_Corps

Many Thanks for the info brother. We need to look at all Asian armed forces practices to benchmark the best of the best.

Bangladesh is not a SAAB or Gripen customer yet but has (or will soon) implement some sort of a C4ISR solution by either Thales, Kelvin Hughes or Leonardo.

@Ronin bhai or @Arthur bhai may know more.