Bangladesh comes window-shopping for ships to Kolkata

[gslv mk3]

Guys just admit india is better than us in shipbuilding.But in a couple of years bangladesh will overtake india

Keep dreaming,honey...

 

[SRP]

Thats not the point. Buy from whoever you want, build whatever you can. I dont care about a chest thumping original article from Indian media.

If @asad71 has stuck to saying Indian media is poor quality, poor work ethics, poor professionalism.....sure I can get behind that. (but if he compares saying Bangladesh media is better, then that's another story)

But instead he decides to make this bold claim that Indian shipbuilding industry is poor quality, that no one in the their right mind would buy from India etc...that even Indian ships avoid India overhaul facilities etc etc.....like he is some seafaring merchant marine person that also has extensively talked to other ship captains about Indian shipyards.

Nope he is just some retired defence guy with some pet peeve against Indians personally and never loses a moment to slip in a BS comment like he has and run away without supporting it.

Thats why I am asking him if India has made six 30,000 DWT class ships for Denmark (starting back in 2004)....how he is able to hold water to his statement when he is chesthumping about some 5000 DWT ship sold to the same country by Bangladesh in the last few years.

It makes quite the stark comparison actually.

Well he was in Pakistani Army and did fought against India in 1971 war. So, i hope you got it.

We dont need any admission of who is better....keep striving keep improving by all means....and have a dream and vision sure. But saying things like "Indian shipbuilding is poor and bad quality" is not conducive to improving Bangladesh situation as we will simply show you the stark facts by way of what we build compared to what you build.

As for overtaking India...even if India does not make one single investment in shipbuilding for 10 - 15 years, Bangladesh is still going to just about come to the same scale as India at the end of that time frame (with full expansion mode going on).

Just look at what one shipyard in India (Pipavav) is adding in terms of capacity in dry dock for example. With huge growth expected in Indian shipbuilding (and industry in general) over the coming years....overtaking India in 2 years begs the question....in what exactly? Sheer DWT output? Net income? Gross revenue? Exports? or something else entirely?

If you mean across the board....thats like saying India is going to overtake South Korea in shipbuilding in 2 years time.

Can dream big....but in the end you need to back it up with some numbers. No numbers coming out of Bangladesh today can convince any bystander that the 2 year time frame is feasbile for bridging of India - Bangladesh shipbuilding chasm in shipbuilding or any heavy indsustry really. You are free to post numbers if you have them, I will simply post Indian numbers and then its going to be quite clear your predictions is quite laughable.....at least add a qualifier to what you mean and give us some evidence why you believe that.

Otherwise it is just another unbacked statement to assuage Bangladeshi pride like @asad71 but at least nowhere near as bad.

 

[Nilgiri]

Well he was in Pakistani Army and did fought against India in 1971 war. So, i hope you got it.

Really? That doesn't make complete sense though....he must have changed sides at some point right to be allowed to remain a Bangladeshi afterwards? Otherwise he would have been part of the 90,000 POWs or worse yet identified as a razakar.....and you know what the Bengalis did to many of those...

But interesting nonetheless he has connection to Pakistan...I guess it all makes sense now. Poor guy must still be confused about his loyalties lol.

 

[Nabil365]

Keep dreaming,honey...

We are not dreaming,we are doing

 

[damiendehorn]

Thats not the point. Buy from whoever you want, build whatever you can. I dont care about a chest thumping original article from Indian media.

If @asad71 has stuck to saying Indian media is poor quality, poor work ethics, poor professionalism.....sure I can get behind that. (but if he compares saying Bangladesh media is better, then that's another story)

But instead he decides to make this bold claim that Indian shipbuilding industry is poor quality, that no one in the their right mind would buy from India etc...that even Indian ships avoid India overhaul facilities etc etc.....like he is some seafaring merchant marine person that also has extensively talked to other ship captains about Indian shipyards.

Nope he is just some retired defence guy with some pet peeve against Indians personally and never loses a moment to slip in a BS comment like he has and run away without supporting it.

Thats why I am asking him if India has made six 30,000 DWT class ships for Denmark (starting back in 2004)....how he is able to hold water to his statement when he is chesthumping about some 5000 DWT ship sold to the same country by Bangladesh in the last few years.

It makes quite the stark comparison actually.

Are you discussing the main point of this thread or are you just attacking @asad71? If your aim is to do the latter then I cant help.

Back to the original threads points: You are right in saying that India is building larger vessels in terms of tonnage and also a larger number of vessels as compared to Bangladesh. But to fully understand situation you need to look at the context....india is several times larger then Bangladesh, it also got the bulk of the industrial areas (kolkata, mumbai etc)...where as Bangladesh had zero, literally zero even before 1947 partition.

All the factories and industrial complexes were in West Bengal, East Pakistan was left with very little except the port of Chittagong.....From 1947 to 1971 then the West Pakistan ruled administration siphoned as much of the wealth they could get from East Pakistan, to invest in their West Pakistan.

The 1971 war left us devastated with out any major industries to speak of, it took us a generation to rebuild. Now things are far different, we are focusing on a number of areas for growth, in the late 80s we targeted RMGs, and were now one of the largest producers.

We have now set our sights on a number of sectors, the $250bn leather and footwear, BOP and ICT sector, white goods/electronics and light engineering sector and finally the shipbuilding sector.

We are still at the early stages of shipbuilding we learn't a lot from the Koreans (thank you STX), and in the next 5-10 years we expect to achieve similar to what we did when we targeted RMGs.

 

[Nilgiri]

Are you discussing the main point of this thread or are you just attacking @asad71? If your aim is to do the latter then I cant help.

Just asking @asad71 to back up his claims or accept they are just his (rubbish) opinion...which happens anyways by his lack of response. Don't really care much for this thread otherwise, it has strayed off as usual.

Back to the original threads points: You are right in saying that India is building larger vessels in terms of tonnage and also a larger number of vessels as compared to Bangladesh. But to fully understand situation you need to look at the context....india is several times larger then Bangladesh, it also got the bulk of the industrial areas (kolkata, mumbai etc)...where as Bangladesh had zero, literally zero even before 1947 partition.

All the factories and industrial complexes were in West Bengal, East Pakistan was left with very little except the port of Chittagong.....From 1947 to 1971 then the West Pakistan ruled administration siphoned as much of the wealth they could get from East Pakistan, to invest in their West Pakistan.

The 1971 war left us devastated with out any major industries to speak of, it took us a generation to rebuild. Now things are far different, we are focusing on a number of areas for growth, in the late 80s we targeted RMGs, and were now one of the largest producers.

We have now set our sights on a number of sectors, the $250bn leather and footwear, BOP and ICT sector, white goods/electronics and light engineering sector and finally the shipbuilding sector.

We are still at the early stages of shipbuilding we learn't a lot from the Koreans (thank you STX), and in the next 5-10 years we expect to achieve similar to what we did when we targeted RMGs.

I completely agree and wish Bangladesh the best of luck. Bangladesh has actually been/continues to be a very inspirational story for me. I am just not a fan of people (on both sides) who bring in chest-thumping with no hard evidence....just for sake of trying to agitate others.

Having Bangladesh stagnate and remain underdeveloped is a really bad thing for India as well. So both countries need to keep pushing forward and keep growing and developing as fast as possible...and both can learn from each other to help in doing this!

 

[Nabil365]

Are you discussing the main point of this thread or are you just attacking @asad71? If your aim is to do the latter then I cant help.

Back to the original threads points: You are right in saying that India is building larger vessels in terms of tonnage and also a larger number of vessels as compared to Bangladesh. But to fully understand situation you need to look at the context....india is several times larger then Bangladesh, it also got the bulk of the industrial areas (kolkata, mumbai etc)...where as Bangladesh had zero, literally zero even before 1947 partition.

All the factories and industrial complexes were in West Bengal, East Pakistan was left with very little except the port of Chittagong.....From 1947 to 1971 then the West Pakistan ruled administration siphoned as much of the wealth they could get from East Pakistan, to invest in their West Pakistan.

The 1971 war left us devastated with out any major industries to speak of, it took us a generation to rebuild. Now things are far different, we are focusing on a number of areas for growth, in the late 80s we targeted RMGs, and were now one of the largest producers.

We have now set our sights on a number of sectors, the $250bn leather and footwear, BOP and ICT sector, white goods/electronics and light engineering sector and finally the shipbuilding sector.

We are still at the early stages of shipbuilding we learn't a lot from the Koreans (thank you STX), and in the next 5-10 years we expect to achieve similar to what we did when we targeted RMGs.

That's what I am trying to say to the Indian guy but he started becoming arrogant(useless guy)

 

[gslv mk3]

We are not dreaming,we are doing

Yeah,right...We have been doing what you are doing now for decades,So do set realistic goals...

 

[Bilal9]

Just asking @asad71 to back up his claims or accept they are just his (rubbish) opinion...which happens anyways by his lack of response. Don't really care much for this thread otherwise, it has strayed off as usual.

Shipbuilding sector is a thrust sector in Bangladesh - as it is in India. However Indian industry has more profitable sectors where local expertise and investment can probably be put to far better and more profitable use. Building Warships is one such profitable avenue for India as a import-substitution exercise, especially the latest Project 17A-class frigates which cost north of $1 Billion each.

Bangladesh has neither the budget, nor the intent or need to build such complicated boats with complicated systems. We have no need to flex muscles with the Chinese. We are happy building simple ships such as MPC coasters or tugs/workboats, or maybe small frigates for our Navy at our Navy yards. Our needs are basic and practical.

We will however ensure that our people and their children,

1. Have enough low wage jobs with wages to live on,
2. Can eat properly and not starve (even with rough low quality chawal, rate of nutrition exceeding most countries in South Asia)
3. Have a safe, hygienic way of life (with enough toilets, highest in South Asia, Sri Lanka excepted)
4. Have enough girls go to school so they keep a lid on the fertility rate (lowest in South Asia)
5. Are vaccinated and immunized at a high rate against epidemics (especially the children, highest in South Asia)
6. (Farmers) get proper prices for their crops and will never need to commit suicide.

For Bangladesh its a sink or swim situation because we need to put our labor into gainful productive employment - otherwise they will go out and burn tires in the street, which cannot be a good situation for either us or neighboring countries.

One can observe that we have succeeded when we put our mind to it, especially in labor intensive low-tech sectors.

Witness garments where we have exceeded India's low-cost labor-intensive garments sector expertise in only a couple of decades. Today Bangladesh is the second largest garments supplier after China, far exceeding Indian garments exports. Witness ship-breaking where we have comfortably outbid Indian scrap ship buyers. There are other sectors as well.

Garments is a labor value-addition proposition. Ship-breaking is a raw-material value-addition proposition. Both are critically labor-intensive industries.

What about Shipbuilding (the subject of this thread)? Shipbuilding is critically labor-intensive as well. I have already stated at the start of this thread that 30% of shipbuilding cost is labor. India cannot compete with us on labor, our shipbuilding labor is simply 30% of India's. It is lower than even Vietnam. No one can compete.

Sooner or later everyone will have to come here, the Dutch, the Danes, the French, the Emiratis, the S'poreans, the Australians, the Japanese, you name it. The one religion everyone gets is money. Best of luck in finding some other USP besides cost.

What @asad71 mentioned is a shipbuilding industry 'insider story'. It is generally discussed and accepted that the smaller shipyards in India (Besides Pipavav, GRSE, Cochin, Vizag and the Mumbai area yards) have quality issues. To be honest- Bangladeshi smaller yards have issues as well. It is a training and expertise issue.

Bangladesh' shipbuilding exports aren't new, they date from before British times. However as @damiendehorn has noted, we haven't built large ships in great numbers above 10,000 DWT because there was simply no need. We have however built (and continue to build) hundreds of small (1500 to 2000 DWT) ships every year for three or four decades since 1971 for inland riverine and coastal use (because we do have a need for these vessels). All built on flat open land, yet conforming to Deutsche Veritas and GL standards no less. Bangladesh shipbuilders will not compete with large Indian builders like Pipavav because we don't have the large yards and infrastructure yet. But 'yet' doesn't mean 'never'....

That's what Indian garment makers said about us in the seventies - never. Just watch....

When we put our minds to it - and if there is a non-interfering govt. there is nothing we cannot do. Even with interference, hartals, bandhs, floods, cyclones. load-shedding, we exceeded 6% growth....just watch....

I completely agree and wish Bangladesh the best of luck. Bangladesh has actually been/continues to be a very inspirational story for me. I am just not a fan of people (on both sides) who bring in chest-thumping with no hard evidence....just for sake of trying to agitate others.

Thank You. Indian industry can be a part of the growth of Bangladesh shipbuilding as well in terms of competitively-priced industrial input such as raw materials, CNC machinery as well as basic cast/forged items. However there is definitely a negative quality perception for Indian products in Bangladesh because of unscrupulous Indian traders in the past. That has to be resolved first.

Having Bangladesh stagnate and remain underdeveloped is a really bad thing for India as well. So both countries need to keep pushing forward and keep growing and developing as fast as possible...and both can learn from each other to help in doing this!

Agreed. This is a constructive way forward. Devolving into an unstable scenario is in no one's interest. For that we need to control terrorist and negative provocation-minded elements in both countries.

 

[asad71]

1.From time to time Indian media churns out RAW inspired reports against payment. BD has been touted by the Classification Societies as the next shipbuilding hub after Vietnam. The story will be like RMG where we have recently toppled China from the top position.

2. India's problems are many. Firstly, in order to introduce something Bharati they bugger an internationally accepted technology. Then of course the horrendous bureaucracy and the Maha Graft. Everywhere there may be some graft but in India it is Maha and multi-headed like one of their gods. And how lazy and lethargic they are!!

 

[Bilal9]

Naval and Marine products - recent examples from smaller non-major yards,

Some smaller (800 DWT) coastal oil tankers

2000 DWT inland coastal MPC Carriers

03 nos. 2000 DWT coastal oil tanker

02 nos. 1500 DWT coastal oil tanker

Airbag Launching of 1500 DWT coastal Oil Tanker

 

[Bilal9]

Boats built or being built in Navy Yards

Boats built at larger yards

Mid-sized MPC carriers ~7000 tons made by Western Marine

1.From time to time Indian media churns out RAW inspired reports against payment. BD has been touted by the Classification Societies as the next shipbuilding hub after Vietnam. The story will be like RMG where we have recently toppled China from the top position.

2. India's problems are many. Firstly, in order to introduce something Bharati they bugger an internationally accepted technology. Then of course the horrendous bureaucracy and the Maha Graft. Everywhere there may be some graft but in India it is Maha and multi-headed like one of their gods. And how lazy and lethargic they are!!

Bhai to be fair - graft is not unique to India only. We have some of our own too. However we have to learn to collaborate with the better Indian companies. I can certainly vouch that first-tier Indian companies like Larsen and Toubro have things to offer us in the way of expertise and products.

 

[Nilgiri]

1.From time to time Indian media churns out RAW inspired reports against payment. BD has been touted by the Classification Societies as the next shipbuilding hub after Vietnam. The story will be like RMG where we have recently toppled China from the top position.

Sources? Links? In any top 20 shipbuilding country report I don't even see Bangladesh even being mentioned.

Case in point: http://www.sajn.or.jp/e/statistics/Shipbuilding_Statistics_Mar2014e.pdf

As for RMG, overtaking China? Please provide a source.

2. India's problems are many. Firstly, in order to introduce something Bharati they bugger an internationally accepted technology. Then of course the horrendous bureaucracy and the Maha Graft. Everywhere there may be some graft but in India it is Maha and multi-headed like one of their gods. And how lazy and lethargic they are!!

Bangladesh constanty ranked way below India in corruption perception. 2014 Corruption Perceptions Index -- Results

India is richer than you (twice per capita) and growing faster than you (by 1 to 2 percent per annum). Don't be so bitter and jealous.

I know you are angry we split your favourite country into two. How could Allah let that happen?

 

[black-hawk_101]

Better for BD to make deals with Russia on big ships like buying the new Russian Corvette which has the same power as Type 54A. In nos. like 6 of them with some produced in Russia while other in BD. In this way they don't need any Frigate.

Also, for small ones go for Turkish ones.

 

[gslv mk3]

What @asad71 mentioned is a shipbuilding industry 'insider story'. It is generally discussed and accepted that the smaller shipyards in India (Besides Pipavav, GRSE, Cochin, Vizag and the Mumbai area yards) have quality issues

You missed out L&T,Bharati & Dempo ?

Pipavav,CSL,Hindustan,L&T & Bharati dominates the bulk of India's commercial shipbuilding.Then what was the intention behind these posts ?

marketing/sales trip for potential sales to India - whose quality of shipbuilding is poor.

All areas Indian shipbuilding industry performs poor.

You guys are far behind us in shipbuilding.

In the industry there are two types of shipbuilders - good builders and Indian builders

The lesson here is don't make uninformed statements...

Here is a smaller shipyard...

Export

4450 DWT Multi purpose General Cargo vessel - 17 Nos.

4750 DWT Multi purpose General Cargo vessel - 05 Nos.

5650 DWT Multi purpose General Cargo vessel - 02 Nos.

Chowgule and Co. Pvt. Ltd. - Chowgule & Co. Pvt. Ltd. - Shipbuilding Division | Products & Services

^^Esprit (4400 DWT ) built for Jr Shipping,Netherlands

Now what your loudmouth buddy asad71 or whatever told is nothing other than pure BS...He is a professional troll who claimed ' saidpur railway workshop ' is far advanced than any metro rake plant in India...

Mid-sized MPC carriers ~7000 tons made by Western Marine

Its 5200 tons

But 'yet' doesn't mean 'never'....

Like how Bangladesh would invade West Bengal ??
What will be the benefits if West Bengal becomes part of Bangladesh?
Yeah,right - you'll overtake us in 2050,till then...