Bangladesh at centre of America's Indian Ocean security!

[24 Hours]

tell me any incidence in the last 50 years where USA supported a dictatorship against a democratic alternative? There are some monarchy in the world where democracy is still in it's infancy, why USA will turn against them? Does it make any sense to make them democratic forcefully? No, US will allow them to undergo democratic evolution until and unless they act recklessly like Saddam or Gaddafi.

Chile in 1973, Nicarauga in the 1980's, and Haiti in 1991 come to mind. And this is just all after 1968.

I did not said American had no fault or 100 percent innocent.Removing Mosaddegh was one such fault American did.But you have to put that episode in it's proper context, then you can understand why USA acted in that way.That was the period of intense cold war rivalry and Mosaddegh was suspected to be a Soviet communist sympathizer.So US did an unconventional act by removing him.But Americans now very much regret that toppling .You know, even American are not above geo-political miscalculation.

Mosaddegh was far from a communist. Churchill told Eisenhower than Mosaddegh could end up being a communist sympathizer. They both knew he wasn't one at the time.

Saddam's peace was a peace of graveyard.A sectarian time bomb which exploded once Saddam era ruthless suppression was removed.Do you want that kind of peace? USA did not anticipated the sectarian quagmire there that will turn that ugly once everyone come out from darkness.American had genuine goodwill for Iraqi people which gone bad due to some unavoidable and unforeseen circumstances which American could not controlled.They thought Iraq will turn around like Germany or Japan after US occupation following WW2.But they did not realized, middle eastern countries are not like Germany or Japan.

Right, but the US was responsible for its removal. Honestly, I think that peace is preferable over the rise of a group like ISIS. US being unable to anticipate the sectarian quagmire is a huge intelligence failure that I'm sure what you're saying is incorrect. Having genuine goodwill during an invasion doesn't mean much, as plenty of other invasions are based on what the invader thinks is "genuine good will." Anyway, you can stop trying to sugarcoat the invasion of Iraq, most Americans think it's a mistake now.

I have said earlier, communist North Vietnam invaded South Vietnam which had defence pact with USA for military help in case North attack.USA did nothing wrong fighting alongside with South Vietnamese to repel communist north Vietnamese attack backed by China and Soviet.But war quickly tuned into a guerilla ambush operating from impenetrable jungle.So American had to turn drastic measures like carpet bombing.Once you are in a war and finding your back on the wall, then only objective paramount to you is to beat back the enemy at any cost.So large number of civilian casualty were committed by all sides.You can blame the warlike tendency of human nature for that.Blaming only US while thinking others were innocent like dove is not helpful.

This is inaccurate. North Vietnam never invaded South Vietnam till 1973. By that time the US withdrew. South Vietnam already had strong communist insurgents of their own, many of this was because of the corrupt, incompetent leadership of the South Vietnamese dictatorship. The US didn't actually become involved in Vietnam until the Gulf of Tonkin incident which the US ended up provoking. There's no point in defending this action of the US in SE Asia. Most Americans agree it was a mistake. Especially the bombings of Cambodia. Putting blame on the actions of the native SE Asians is dumb given the long term damages caused by the US. You're understanding on SE Asia's turbulent time is naive.

In which country American did war crime? Or specifically invaded to torment the people of that country? Are American waging war against any normal, democratic, peaceful country around? America waged war against Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, Stalinist North Korea, Communist invader North Vietnam,Ruthless dictator Saddam's Iraq, Taliban terrorist held Afghanistan.Have US waged war against countries which are full of natural resource but peaceful? Like Qatar, UAE, Norway, Kuwait, Azerbaijan, Malaysia, Canada? Has America grabbed their resource by waging unprovoked war against them? Just because, Saddam's Iraq was rich in oil, so many have made conclusion that 'America wage war for oil'. Where is 'free Iraqi oil for America'now? Iraq is still selling oil in international market according to international price.Why America is not invading other oil rich country one by one?

There's no need because those countries fall under US line of interest. America has its own interests. Iraq didn't. Though the US didn't need to wage war at times. The use of backing coup's was pretty effective too.

Though the US certainly has understandable invasions of other countries such as Saddam's Kuwait, and Taliban Afghanistan you're naive about everything else. There are plenty of great things about America but the foreign policy is a mixed bag.

You were expecting some backbone? heh. They will be anti-US in due time, till that changes back again...its waves crashing on the beach.

And this is special how? As the famous quote goes, there's no such thing as permanent allies, but permanent interests. Vietnam was America's enemy and now Vietnam sees America as an ally. I don't see this country ever becoming anti-US anytime soon.

 

[Chhatrapati]

Forget about when BD people will become anti-US. Today's issue is the security of Indo-Pacific. Seems Delhi is not under the US radar, Dhaka is. Let us hear something from you about this change of US heart. Uncle Trump knows about Indian hearts. They are basically anti-US and pro-Moscow. Result is the non-inclusion of India by the USA. Trump will not follow the pro-Indian policy that started during Bush era.

Let's hope Bangladesh will act as a security guarantee of Indian ocean region. And make the US strong again, with their powerful weapons and radar systems, including subs.

How important is BD in IOR? Do they have that kind of ability? Please don't cling on to lukewarm comments. You are not a US ally, neither is India. And I'm sure, allying with the US will trigger the Mullah gang in BD which is evidently powerful enough. So, you need not worry about what India is doing. We'll do what seems to fit under the scenario.

What you are doing is trying to get some attention with provocative comments. I don't think you don't understand the relation between US and India, and US and BD.

 

[Ocean]

As the leader of free democratic world, it has responsibility to punish the rouge regime.In ideal condition,UN security council should have sanction the punishment to these rouge regime.But due to the fact that 2 dictator loving, genocidal maniac loving countries are holding veto power, it is nearly impossible to do any humanitarian intervention with the UN sanction.Fortunately US was able to obtain UN approval to punish the Taliban.While US forced Serbia to stop massacring Kosovo muslim by bombing shit out of Serbia despite vehement opposition from that 2 genocidal maniac loving countries.For Iraq, it is debatable whether US should have gone to punish Saddam without UN approval which is handicapped by veto power anyway.

Hiroshima, Nagasaki was unfortunate event where you can't put blame on any single power.Just because US drop bomb there don't mean they are solely responsible.Even when it was completely clear that, Imperial Japan was going to loose the war, their fanatical army was refusing to surrender and vowing to continue the war until the last Japanese.The only alternative for allied forces other than dropping atom bomb was sending millions of ground troops in mainland Japan.Which would have resulted in hundreds of thousands of allied soldier casualties as well as civilian death and destruction 10 fold of what happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.Only when the fanatical Imperial Japanese army witnessed, what otter destruction can bring the American bomb, they reluctantly agreed to surrender.So you can mostly blame the imperial Japanese army for their senseless determination to continue war despite knowing that they can't win and was willing to sacrifice millions of Japanese civilian to that stubborn reckless attitude.Sometimes you don't have a good and bad choice.Only bad and worse choice.Unfortunately allied forces had to take the bad choice to prevent the worse.

You have defended about every single crime usa has committed against other states with the kind of justifications that even usa would fail to proivde, from vietnam attack to iraq war to afghanistan war drama you have it all covered.

I mean its even more shocking u are defending iraq war in the name of removing dictatorship whilst usa had used a fake excuse of wmds to attack iraq. And btw how do u know iraq wasnt peaceful and they were suffering under saddam? Have u met any iraqi in real life and taken their perspectives? sorry but iraq was way more developed at that time than bangladesh would be in next two or three decades. And you are defending usa on iraq war when now theres hardly any strong political voice left in america to justify iraq invasion and when their own lawmakers openly criticize bush regime for a fabrications-based invasion.
Something that even americans dont wish to defend , you are giving excuses for it.

Then you also come to defend japan nuking when it was shared by americans pilots who dropped nukes, those attacks were made to test the nuke weapons. And lets say it was a genuine attack how should a nuclear attack be justified ?

Going by all ur comments one could easily say myanmars genocide against rohingyas could also be justified. When u can defend iraq war then u hold no moral high ground to protest against rohingyas persecution.

Right, but the US was responsible for its removal. Honestly, I think that peace is preferable over the rise of a group like ISIS. US being unable to anticipate the sectarian quagmire is a huge intelligence failure that I'm sure what you're saying is incorrect. .

there was no intelligence issue
Dick cheney had already warned against outocmes of iraq war back in 1994 this is what he said and its exactly same that happened. Usa itself had facilitated creation of sectarian militias to fight against iraq sunni rebel groups.

. This is one of the negative consequences of the decline of US, we have nobody to do that global policing.

LMAO the bengla tiger asking for a foreign global policing power? Whatever happened to joy bengla bravado? Why is it super human Bangladeshis are always looking for saviors or entities to depend upon to save them or assumingly rest of the world? One day u need india to fight ur own local wars ,the other day u need usa. Will you bangladeshis ever man up enough to not need a support to salvage u or the world? Lmao @ global policing

Not only Uncle Trump, but also any other uncles will turn away from a double-faced dubious country in the west of India. You have been eating Biriany, Qorma, Haleem and Nihari all the time because of $33 billion thrown to you by the USA during only a few years. No wonder Uncle Trump has decided to withdraw further dollar.

In our case, we will not allow the creation of Taleban on our soil and then ask USA for money to destroy them. When the old boy in our west behaves unscrupulously, it is obvious that Uncle Trump will find out a new honest boy in the east.

I doubt you are even a bengali cause even tho going by posts in this thread i do see a lack of self respect amongst bengali posters for the way they are sucking up to america but i still i doubt any bangladeshi will write a comment like this about their own country "it is obvious that Uncle Trump will find out a new honest boy in the east"

An indian lowlife troll disguising as a bangladeshi. I am sure lack of to- ilets do result in lot of filth osmosing towards brain ,as is in your case.

The most stupid Mullah poster are claiming here that he avoids arguments in a public forum, while posting tons of rubbish and insulting others without any profound knowledge himself. You are the one who talks more than you know. Bloody hypocrite!! Who asked you to come and participate in a secular forum with your radical and fanatic ideas? Get lost to the Red Sea. It is no place for a fanatic.

Who gave u the right to decide this is a secular forum or not or who should be posting here or not?

 

[Homo Sapiens]

Chile in 1973, Nicarauga in the 1980's, and Haiti in 1991 come to mind. And this is just all after 1968.

Chile:There is no evidence that CIA helped to topple Salvador Allende govt.US disliked Leftist Allende govt. and when military overthrew him, communist and leftist propaganda worldwide fanned this accusation of toppling him by CIA. US had it's own reasons to dislike Allende govt. Allende was actively supported by USSR and Cuba.So naturally US opposed him.In that time, USSR and Cuba was actively engaged to engineer violent communist revolution in various Latin American countries Cuba style.US had made billions of dollar investment in Chile's copper mining industry and Allende was determined to nationalize all industries, which would have damaged a lot of American investors.So US helped opposition of Allende in election.When Augusto Pinochet done the coup, he wanted American support, but US declined.But Pinochet done that coup anyway.

Nicaragua:Somoza family long had been dictator of Nicaragua.In 1960s a armed communist guerilla group Sandinista was formed supported by USSR and Cuba to overthrow the dictatorship and replaced it Cuba style communist dictatorship.Initially US supported Somoza to suppress Sandinista, but when Somoza govt. increasing became ruthless, US withdrawn it's support.So in 1979, Sandinista overthrew Somoza dictatorship and came to power.After 5 years in 1984, Sandinista hold election where they won.US tried to sway the Sandinista govt. from USSR and Cuba by giving generous foreign aid, but this strategy failed and Sandinista increasingly became communist and a client of USSR.At that time a new rebel group naming Contra emerged to oppose the Communist Sandinista govt.US initially supported them but withdraw it's support by Congress resolution once Contra committed atrocity in the countrysides.But Regan administration tried to help them secretly which eventually known to public and termed as 'Iran Contra affair'. In 1990 Soviet withdraw it's support for Sandinista govt. as Soviet was itself dismantling communist rule, international pressure succeeded to arrange an election in Nicaragua where Sandinista defeated.So here, US tried to block communist from gaining power which was normal affair for US as it was in struggle with USSR and Cuba to not to let fall the Latin America to communism.Nowhere in this affair, US had overthrown democratic govt. with military dictatorship here.

Haiti:There was a military coup in Haiti in 1991.US send army there to overthrow that dictatorship in an operation named 'Operation uphold Democracy' which was authorized by a UN security council resolution.With US intervention democracy return in Haiti.So what you are claiming here is totally opposite the fact. One two unsupported individual claimed that some CIA officers were present with military leadership during the coup, but CIA denied this and no evidence were found supporting this claim.With the role US played after that coup, it can be said safely that CIA was not involved.Many leftist communist has a habit of accusing CIA of engineering all of the coup in the world.I guess this accusation in Haiti was part of that.

Mosaddegh was far from a communist. Churchill told Eisenhower than Mosaddegh could end up being a communist sympathizer. They both knew he wasn't one at the time.

I said earlier American act in Iran in 1953 was not good and American now regret that event.Mosaddegh was a surely a leftist and many leftist and communist has a very thin line or no line to separate them.Whether Mosaddegh could have acted as a communist can't be known as he was toppled to early to know that.

Right, but the US was responsible for its removal. Honestly, I think that peace is preferable over the rise of a group like ISIS. US being unable to anticipate the sectarian quagmire is a huge intelligence failure that I'm sure what you're saying is incorrect. Having genuine goodwill during an invasion doesn't mean much, as plenty of other invasions are based on what the invader thinks is "genuine good will." Anyway, you can stop trying to sugarcoat the invasion of Iraq, most Americans think it's a mistake now.

How US intelligence would know, ISIS would emerge after 10 years? They do not travel by Time Machine.Just because future evil may arise so that I will not oppose current evil, I do not believe in this type of logic.Imagine what would have happened if USA decided to not waging war against Hitler for the assumption that a greater dictator may arise in Germany in future.We have to oppose current evil and injustice.Future evil will be fought by future ourselves. Most American now regret Iraq invasion because it turned into failure to stabilize Iraq or achieving the objective for which initial intervention was done.If it were a success like Germany, Japan or South Korea, then American still would have supported this.In 2003, most of the American supported removal of Saddam.

This is inaccurate. North Vietnam never invaded South Vietnam till 1973. By that time the US withdrew. South Vietnam already had strong communist insurgents of their own, many of this was because of the corrupt, incompetent leadership of the South Vietnamese dictatorship. The US didn't actually become involved in Vietnam until the Gulf of Tonkin incident which the US ended up provoking. There's no point in defending this action of the US in SE Asia. Most Americans agree it was a mistake. Especially the bombings of Cambodia. Putting blame on the actions of the native SE Asians is dumb given the long term damages caused by the US. You're understanding on SE Asia's turbulent time is naive.

Ho Chi Minh who was the president of North Vietnam was also the guerilla leader of Vietcong who were fighting to capture South Vietnam.So how it is 'North Vietnam never invaded South Vietnam before 1973' ? North Vietnam may not have officially declared their invasion date earlier but when it's president lead the guerilla force to capture South Vietnam, is it less then anything other than invasion?
In 1961-1963, 40,000 North Vietnamese communist soldier infiltrated to start war against South Vietnamese govt.After this infiltration and unrest in South Vietnam it was only a matter of time that US would have to involve in Vietnam affairs.Gulf of Tonkin incidence gave opportunity for direct US involvement.Again most American agree, it was a mistake because American did not succeeded to save the South Vietnam or defeating the communist North and US troops suffered heavy casualties.No American consider, Korea war and successful defence of South Korea is a mistake, although Korean war was more destructive.
Bombing of Cambodia was a part of Vietnam war.Vietnamese communist guerilla was using Cambodian soil to launch attack on American troops as well as Extremist communist guerilla Khamer Rougue was fighting Cambodian govt. Cambodian govt. at first tolerated Vietcong presence in his soil for fear of entering wider conflict.But by 1969, it started to expel Vietcong guerilla.For that, North Vietnam invaded Cambodia.US bombing was a response of that.Why are you only taking a partial snapshot?

There's no need because those countries fall under US line of interest. America has its own interests. Iraq didn't. Though the US didn't need to wage war at times. The use of backing coup's was pretty effective too.

If by virtue of remaining peaceful, democratic amount to falling in American line than yes, most of the countries in the world fall under US line.Are France falling in line with US blindly? or India? There are a lot of clash of interest among the democratic world.EU and USA has a lot of competing business interest.But as a democratic peer, they prevent that competing interest into turn ugly and negotiate peacefully.Do you think, just by remaining democratic and peaceful, EU and India is falling in line with US ? And Saddam's dictatorship was paragon of independent foreign policy just because he had enmity with US?

 

[Centaur]

You have defended about every single crime usa has committed against other states with the kind of justifications that even usa would fail to proivde, from vietnam attack to iraq war to afghanistan war drama you have it all covered.

I mean its even more shocking u are defending iraq war in the name of removing dictatorship whilst usa had used a fake excuse of wmds to attack iraq. And btw how do u know iraq wasnt peaceful and they we suffering under saddam? Have u met any iraqi in real life and taken their perspectives? sorry but iraq was way more developed at that time than bangladesh would be in next two or three decades. And you are defending usa on iraq war when now theres hardly any strong political voice left in america to justify iraq invasion and when their own lawmakers openly criticize bush regime for a fabrications-based invasion.
Something that even americans dont wish to defend u are giving excuses for it.

Then you also come to defend japanese nuking when it was shared by americans pilots who dropped nukes, those attacks were to test the weapons. And lets say it was a genuine attack how should a nuclear attack be justified ?

Going by all ur comments one could easily say myanmars genocide against rohingyas could also be justified. When u can defend iraq war the

@Ocean
Hello brother, thanks for this Understanding !
Do you remember I have explained ( in another thread ) there are 4 types of bangladeshi exist? 1st one is chetona ( who always harping about 1971) type ,
they are very few in number (either support support BAL or pretend to be neutral) don't represent bangladesh? They are well educated. I believe (Mr @Homo Sapiens is one of them, there are few more like him in PDF too, I believe you have understood now ! If not just wait and observe! Soon you will realize).

Although it looks he changed his malignity to pakistan . Just wait till 26 March , we will know if he changed or not .
However this group is led by anti muslim sentiment ( either conciously or unconsiously) , and they are actually either psedo intellectuals or heavily brainwashed by them . And some of them are oti ( extreme cult) Bengali.

And type two is same just the supporter of BNP or sometimes pretend to be neutral . They are well educated too and also few in number ( like the user idune type who always harping against bangladesh when his BNP is not in power ) . They use islam as their tool of politics. They also don't represent.

3rd types want to balance and they are also not huge in number too. They believe both India and pakistan is equally bad !
And the 4th group is Common folks make almost all bangladeshi, who are not interested in such BS agmrgument as they accepted the reality anyway .
And I hope you have found the truth now ? At least you have found first and second type in this forum I believe ( homo sapience or this type and idune type) . This thread has unveiled many so called patriot bangladeshi , you will see more in future I believe.
Anyway thanks for the nice post .

Chile:There is no evidence that CIA helped to topple Salvador Allende govt.US disliked Leftist Allende govt

With respect, can you tell me why CIA would left any evidence? Can you explain that? The works of CIA is not like the great masud rana that you will know from the writing of qazi Anwar Hossein! Thank you !

 

[Homo Sapiens]

You have defended about every single crime usa has committed against other states with the kind of justifications that even usa would fail to proivde, from vietnam attack to iraq war to afghanistan war drama you have it all covered.

I mean its even more shocking u are defending iraq war in the name of removing dictatorship whilst usa had used a fake excuse of wmds to attack iraq. And btw how do u know iraq wasnt peaceful and they we suffering under saddam? Have u met any iraqi in real life and taken their perspectives? sorry but iraq was way more developed at that time than bangladesh would be in next two or three decades. And you are defending usa on iraq war when now theres hardly any strong political voice left in america to justify iraq invasion and when their own lawmakers openly criticize bush regime for a fabrications-based invasion.
Something that even americans dont wish to defend u are giving excuses for it.

Then you also come to defend japanese nuking when it was shared by americans pilots who dropped nukes, those attacks were to test the weapons. And lets say it was a genuine attack how should a nuclear attack be justified ?

Going by all ur comments one could easily say myanmars genocide against rohingyas could also be justified. When u can defend iraq war then u hold no moral ground to protest against rohingyas.

there was no intelligence
Dick cheney had already warned against outocmes of iraq war back in 1994 this is what he said and its exactly same that happened. Usa itself had facilitated creation of sectarian militias to fight against iraq sunni rebel groups.

LMAO the bengla tiger asking for a foreign global policing power? Whatever happened to joy bengla bravado? Why is it super human Bangladeshis are always looking for saviors or entities to depend upon to save them or assumingly rest of the world? One day u need india to fight ur own local wars other day u need usa. Will you bangladeshis ever man up enough not to need a shpport to salvage u or the world? Lmao @ global policing


I doubt you are even a bengali cause even tho going by posts in this thread i do see a lack of self respect amongst bengali posters for the way they are sucking up to america but i still i doubt any bangladeshi will write a comment like this about their own country "it is obvious that Uncle Trump will find out a new honest boy in the east"

An indian lowlife troll disguising as a bangladeshi. I am sure lack of to- ilets do result in lot of filth osmosing towards brain ,as is in your case.

Who gave u the right to decide this is a secular forum or not or who should be posting here or not?

I can understand your pain and frustration.American dollar is drying up.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

With respect, can you tell me why CIA would left any evidence? Can you explain that? The works of CIA is not like the great masud rana that you will know from the writing of qazi Anwar Hossein! Thank you !

So you believe in baseless, unsubstantiated claim and wild accusation without any evidence against whom you dislike and specifically if it happened to be America? But I believe in 'Innocent until proven guilty' principle.

 

[Ocean]

I can understand your pain and frustration.American dollar is drying up.

Lmao is that all you got to say? So a 250 billion dollar plus pakistani economy was built on once in two years half billion dollar aid ( as out of 1 billion dollars only 40 pc amount would be dispatched, 60 pc used to get deducted in going through various bureaucratic processes right there in usa, look it up in google )

And says someone who gleefully opens a thread about some minute American attention shown towards his country. Whose country takes 1 billion dollars loan from china to buy aircrafts from same china again. And whose country has glaring history of receiving enormous aid from saudia and arab countries in 70-80s which acted as a lifeline to its economy.

 

[Centaur]

So you believe in baseless, unsubstantiated claim and wild accusation without any evidence against whom you dislike and specially if it happened to be America?

Not really . I am not anti American , also not pro American. I just try to avoid such stuffs as the real works of intelligence agencies are doing the dirty jobs for a country.
Spying has been labeled as crime since ancient era ,yet no country or empire will survive without intelligence agencies and their dirty works.
It's true for all intelligence ( all , CIA , DGFI , ISI R@w mosad ..... Etc etc.) .

But I believe in 'Innocent until proven guilty' principle.

Unfortunately if they are proven innocent , they will lost respect from opponents .
And if they are not Innocent ,they will never left any evidences if they are really professional.
I will post few articles from mukto Mona blog


মাসুদ রানার মামদোবাজী এবং বাস্তবের গোয়েন্দাবৃত্তি
His articles are interesting and totally opposite of others in the blog .
I have read almost every post written by this blogger since few months , just because I have found them different and also many similarities with some real life formal knowledge .
You can check , there are few articles like this by him.

And if you want to know the evidence that what he wrote is authentic or not , I can't give you any evidences .
So it's up to you if you will think about those writings or not . But I heard something in my real life about the works of intelligence , and there are lost of similarities with his articles .
Yet I have no idea if my real life informations are right or wrong as no evidences there too .
(But one thing I can say that they ( or he ) are not civilians .

I admit some information can be misleading too , but I just heard a little and sincs I am just a common folks so I don't thing anyone will mislead me if I asked with the intention to learn . And also I believe that those informations are not secrete as secrete informations will never be in public , I just learned the ABC OR even less, I believe I just learned because have asked something ( very few though ) and didn't start any argument)

Now is your sense and logic , you can research I believe ( as I did it) Thank you .
@Homo Sapiens

 

[Ocean]

@Ocean
Hello brother, thanks for this Understanding !
Do you remember I have explained ( in another thread ) there are 4 types of bangladeshi exist? 1st one is chetona ( who always harping about 1971) type ,
they are very few in number (either support support BAL or pretend to be neutral) don't represent bangladesh? They are well educated. I believe (Mr @Homo Sapiens is one of them, there are few more like him in PDF too, I believe you have understood now ! If not just wait and observe! Soon you will realize).

Although it looks he changed his malignity to pakistan . Just wait till 26 March , we will know if he changed or not .
However this group is led by anti muslim sentiment ( either conciously or unconsiously) , and they are actually either psedo intellectuals or heavily brainwashed by them . And some of them are oti ( extreme cult) Bengali.

And type two is same just the supporter of BNP or sometimes pretend to be neutral . They are well educated too and also few in number ( like the user idune type who always harping against bangladesh when his BNP is not in power ) . They use islam as their tool of politics. They also don't represent.

3rd types want to balance and they are also not huge in number too. They believe both India and pakistan is equally bad !
And the 4th group is Common folks make almost all bangladeshi, who are not interested in such BS agmrgument as they accepted the reality anyway .
And I hope you have found the truth now ? At least you have found first and second type in this forum I believe ( homo sapience or this type and idune type) . This thread has unveiled many so called patriot bangladeshi , you will see more in future I believe.
Anyway thanks for the nice post .


With respect, can you tell me why CIA would left any evidence? Can you explain that? The works of CIA is not like the great masud rana that you will know from the writing of qazi Anwar Hossein! Thank you !

you are jacksparrow , you changed the nick?

 

[Centaur]

you are jacksparrow , you changed the nick?

Yes bro,look at my signature, I wrote that I am formerly Jacksparow47!

 

[24 Hours]

Chile:There is no evidence that CIA helped to topple Salvador Allende govt.US disliked Leftist Allende govt. and when military overthrew him, communist and leftist propaganda worldwide fanned this accusation of toppling him by CIA. US had it's own reasons to dislike Allende govt. Allende was actively supported by USSR and Cuba.So naturally US opposed him.In that time, USSR and Cuba was actively engaged to engineer violent communist revolution in various Latin American countries Cuba style.US had made billions of dollar investment in Chile's copper mining industry and Allende was determined to nationalize all industries, which would have damaged a lot of American investors.So US helped opposition of Allende in election.When Augusto Pinochet done the coup, he wanted American support, but US declined.But Pinochet done that coup anyway.

US, set the conditions for the coup. They supported it right after. Allende was elected. Pinochet was not.

Nicaragua:Somoza family long had been dictator of Nicaragua.In 1960s a armed communist guerilla group Sandinista was formed supported by USSR and Cuba to overthrow the dictatorship and replaced it Cuba style communist dictatorship.Initially US supported Somoza to suppress Sandinista, but when Somoza govt. increasing became ruthless, US withdrawn it's support.So in 1979, Sandinista overthrew Somoza dictatorship and came to power.After 5 years in 1984, Sandinista hold election where they won.US tried to sway the Sandinista govt. from USSR and Cuba by giving generous foreign aid, but this strategy failed and Sandinista increasingly became communist and a client of USSR.At that time a new rebel group naming Contra emerged to oppose the Communist Sandinista govt.US initially supported them but withdraw it's support by Congress resolution once Contra committed atrocity in the countrysides.But Regan administration tried to help them secretly which eventually known to public and termed as 'Iran Contra affair'. In 1990 Soviet withdraw it's support for Sandinista govt. as Soviet was itself dismantling communist rule, international pressure succeeded to arrange an election in Nicaragua where Sandinista defeated.So here, US tried to block communist from gaining power which was normal affair for US as it was in struggle with USSR and Cuba to not to let fall the Latin America to communism.Nowhere in this affair, US had overthrown democratic govt. with military dictatorship here.

Haiti:There was a military coup in Haiti in 1991.US send army there to overthrow that dictatorship in an operation named 'Operation uphold Democracy' which was authorized by a UN security council resolution.With US intervention democracy return in Haiti.So what you are claiming here is totally opposite the fact. One two unsupported individual claimed that some CIA officers were present with military leadership during the coup, but CIA denied this and no evidence were found supporting this claim.With the role US played after that coup, it can be said safely that CIA was not involved.Many leftist communist has a habit of accusing CIA of engineering all of the coup in the world.I guess this accusation in Haiti was part of that.

US still aligned with aggressive Contra that sought to destabilized the country and government. Even after the election of 84. And no the rebels were funded even as early as 1982.

Coup leaders Cédras and François had received military training in the United States.

I said earlier American act in Iran in 1953 was not good and American now regret that event.Mosaddegh was a surely a leftist and many leftist and communist has a very thin line or no line to separate them.Whether Mosaddegh could have acted as a communist can't be known as he was toppled to early to know that.

A communist would have nationalized all the industries. Mosaddegh only nationalized the oil industry owned by the UK. Pretty clear difference. you already said it was not good so why are you sugar coating it?

How US intelligence would know, ISIS would emerge after 10 years? They do not travel by Time Machine.Just because future evil may arise so that I will not oppose current evil, I do not believe in this type of logic.Imagine what would have happened if USA decided to not waging war against Hitler for the assumption that a greater dictator may arise in Germany in future.We have to oppose current evil and injustice.Future evil will be fought by future ourselves. Most American now regret Iraq invasion because it turned into failure to stabilize Iraq or achieving the objective for which initial intervention was done.If it were a success like Germany, Japan or South Korea, then American still would have supported this.In 2003, most of the American supported removal of Saddam.

There is a difference between the lesser evil and current evil.
Nazi German comparison is incorrect, Hitler declared war on the US. US invasion on Nazi Germany was justified. Just because a good portion of America supported it at the time doesn't mean it was justified. How many Americans do you think would have supported the Iraq War if they knew beforehand there was no WMD in Iraq? And no, George W. Bush's father himself had the opportunity to invade Iraq shortly after the Gulf War but decided against it, he knew it was a bad idea.

Ho Chi Minh who was the president of North Vietnam was also the guerilla leader of Vietcong who were fighting to capture South Vietnam.So how it is 'North Vietnam never invaded South Vietnam before 1973' ? North Vietnam may not have officially declared their invasion date earlier but when it's president lead the guerilla force to capture South Vietnam, is it less then anything other than invasion?
In 1961-1963, 40,000 North Vietnamese communist soldier infiltrated to start war against South Vietnamese govt.After this infiltration and unrest in South Vietnam it was only a matter of time that US would have to involve in Vietnam affairs.Gulf of Tonkin incidence gave opportunity for direct US involvement.Again most American agree, it was a mistake because American did not succeeded to save the South Vietnam or defeating the communist North and US troops suffered heavy casualties.No American consider, Korea war and successful defence of South Korea is a mistake, although Korean war was more destructive.
Bombing of Cambodia was a part of Vietnam war.Vietnamese communist guerilla was using Cambodian soil to launch attack on American troops as well as Extremist communist guerilla Khamer Rougue was fighting Cambodian govt. Cambodian govt. at first tolerated Vietcong presence in his soil for fear of entering wider conflict.But by 1969, it started to expel Vietcong guerilla.For that, North Vietnam invaded Cambodia.US bombing was a response of that.Why are you only taking a partial snapshot?

Yes, it is not a clear cut invasion. Most of the guerillas were native South Vietnamese. Korean War was more destructive? No. Right, so bombing another country not involved in the war is ok if your enemy has bases there? No it's not. And it brought the rise of Pol Pot, which is pretty bad. And when did North Vietnam invade Cambodia? And no, Ho Chi Minh was not the leader of the Vietcong. Maybe an inspirational one, but physically he was not leading them to fight. In fact he became more irrelevant in North Vietnamese affairs as the time went on. The Vietcong were mostly South Vietnamese people who despised the South Vietnamese government. And no, opinion is incredibly split on Vietnam in the US. And that's just with the generation that lived to see it. Modern day generation doesn't care about Vietnam at all. Given the fact that Vietnam now sees America as an ally most people will agree the war was a waste. It'll be more irrelevant than the Korean War when the time comes.

If by virtue of remaining peaceful, democratic amount to falling in American line than yes, most of the countries in the world fall under US line.Are France falling in line with US blindly? or India? There are a lot of clash of interest among the democratic world.EU and USA has a lot of competing business interest.But as a democratic peer, they prevent that competing interest into turn ugly and negotiate peacefully.Do you think, just by remaining democratic and peaceful, EU and India is falling in line with US ? And Saddam's dictatorship was paragon of independent foreign policy just because he had enmity with US?

Uh no? US foreign policy has pretty much waned off overtime now that there's a lack of a rival power. China is rising and there's Russia but both don't come close to the rivalry of the USSR. I expect US foreign policy to become Cold War aggressive in the future. Developed countries all line with the US but whether developing countries will do the same is a debatable.

 

[Arefin007]

US, set the conditions for the coup. They supported it right after. Allende was elected. Pinochet was not.

US still aligned with aggressive Contra that sought to destabilized the country and government. Even after the election of 84. And no the rebels were funded even as early as 1982.

Coup leaders Cédras and François had received military training in the United States.


A communist would have nationalized all the industries. Mosaddegh only nationalized the oil industry owned by the UK. Pretty clear difference. you already said it was not good so why are you sugar coating it?


There is a difference between the lesser evil and current evil.
Nazi German comparison is incorrect, Hitler declared war on the US. US invasion on Nazi Germany was justified. Just because a good portion of America supported it at the time doesn't mean it was justified. How many Americans do you think would have supported the Iraq War if they knew beforehand there was no WMD in Iraq? And no, George W. Bush's father himself had the opportunity to invade Iraq shortly after the Gulf War but decided against it, he knew it was a bad idea.



Yes, it is not a clear cut invasion. Most of the guerillas were native South Vietnamese. Korean War was more destructive? No. Right, so bombing another country not involved in the war is ok if your enemy has bases there? No it's not. And it brought the rise of Pol Pot, which is pretty bad. And when did North Vietnam invade Cambodia? And no, Ho Chi Minh was not the leader of the Vietcong. Maybe an inspirational one, but physically he was not leading them to fight. In fact he became more irrelevant in North Vietnamese affairs as the time went on. The Vietcong were mostly South Vietnamese people who despised the South Vietnamese government. And no, opinion is incredibly split on Vietnam in the US. And that's just with the generation that lived to see it. Modern day generation doesn't care about Vietnam at all. Given the fact that Vietnam now sees America as an ally most people will agree the war was a waste. It'll be more irrelevant than the Korean War when the time comes.


Uh no? US foreign policy has pretty much waned off overtime now that there's a lack of a rival power. China is rising and there's Russia but both don't come close to the rivalry of the USSR. I expect US foreign policy to become Cold War aggressive in the future. Developed countries all line with the US but whether developing countries will do the same is a debatable.

gosh how do you find the time to read all this stuff i get the collywobbles simply by looking at my weekly class assignments. you think you know it but then you get sweet fanny adams

 

[24 Hours]

gosh how do you find the time to read all this stuff i get the collywobbles simply by looking at my weekly class assignments. you think you know it but then you get sweet fanny adams

My classes just started recently. So right now I'm low on assignments. But, I expect things to pick up soon in the coming week.

 

[Nilgiri]

By reading your post, I have a feeling that Delhi has given up on snatching up the throw away bones from the USA. Anyway, the main news in the USA says about the US intention in the Indo-Pacific, but it did not say any words on the BD intention whether it will take the bones away from India.

I think, the BD leadership will not choose between China and USA. It is possible that BD will work both with China and the USA to free the sea lanes from Indian bullying. If BD joins hand with China only, it certainly will displease USA. So, it would be great if BD chooses to work with US Navy in the Indo-Pacific in the east, and work with China in the BoB and Indian Ocean in a little west. How do you think of this? I think, this prospect will not displease India and you.

We are supposed to care about puppy yapping? First prove yourself against myanmar, little puppy.

And this is special how? As the famous quote goes, there's no such thing as permanent allies, but permanent interests. Vietnam was America's enemy and now Vietnam sees America as an ally. I don't see this country ever becoming anti-US anytime soon.

I'm talking about specific members here (the frequency and depth to which they change on matters/perceptions of whichever country including their own, way more than I have seen anyone else do), not countries as a whole themselves. BD is just basket driftwood in foreign policy world largely...its not even really a topic worth broaching....much less comparing notes, references and trends. Prove something against Myanmar first and people might take some real notice.