Bangladesh arrests four for caning, stoning woman over affair

[Areesh]

Prophet Muhammad didn’t approve Caliph Omar’s recommendation to keep stoning to death as punishment. It happened only 4 times during Prophet Muhammad’s time where woman’s were stoned to death for adultery which was mostly a local law not something god given law.

Quran’s law is for adultery not for just single people, married people as well.

Prophet (SAW) avoided stoning people for adultery. Just like divorce is disliked in Islam. That however doesn't mean disapproval for this punishment

Hazrat Umar (RA) was very clear about Rajm that it was allowed by Prophet (SAW) and was continued after his demise

Narrated By Ibn ‘Abbas : ‘Umar said, “I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, “We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book,” and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession.” Sufyan added, “I have memorized this narration in this way.” ‘Umar added, “Surely Allah’s Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him.”

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Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Hadith Number 816.​

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Quran’s law is for adultery not for just single people, married people as well.

Not really

Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah:

A man committed fornication with a woman. So the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) ordered regarding him and the prescribed punishment of flogging was inflicted on him. He was then informed that he was married. So he commanded regarding him and he was stoned to death.

Sunan Abu Dawood, 38:4424


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[Homo Sapiens]

That is true. For more:

Stoning and amputations are hadd punishments that Allah has prescribed for His slaves, in accordance with His wisdom and out of mercy towards His slaves - Islam Question & Answer

islamqa.info

Laws related to adultery, fornication etc are called "Hudood" short for "Hudood-ullah", i.e. limits of/set by Allah. These are the punishments prescribed by Allah himself. These are immutable, from what I understand. There are other things in sharia that can be changed to some degree to keep with the times, not this. But, I am not knowledgeable.

@Areesh , maybe you can add.

Where is the verse in Quran for stoning? Unless you can give direct reference from Quran, you can not say, it is Allah's command. In fact stoning for adultary have a very shaky foundation in Islam. Only a few Hadith mentioned it that Prophet Muhammad (SA) carried out a punishment of stoning. But that Hadith can easily be a forgery. Afterall, Hadiths were compiled after 200-300 years after death of Prophet Muhammad(SA). Within this long period, a lot of forgeries were created in the name of Hadith, many of which, despite the best intention of Hadith compilers, found places in six hadith collections. So we have to be very careful making any serious law like capital punishment solely based on Hadith.

 

[Areesh]

Where is the verse in Quran for stoning? Unless you can give direct reference from Quran, you can not say, it is Allah's command. In fact stoning for adultary have a very shaky foundation in Islam. Only a few Hadith mentioned it that Prophet Muhammad (SA) carried out a punishment of stoning. But that Hadith can easily be a forgery. Afterall, Hadiths were compiled after 200-300 years after death of Prophet Muhammad(SA). Within this long period, a lot of forgeries were created in the name of Hadith, many of which, despite the best intention of Hadith compilers, found places in six hadith collections. So we have to be careful making any serious law like capital punishment solely based on Hadith.

Just because you disliked content of a hadeeth isn't enough to reject it. You need to prove it consists weak chain of narrators or it is in direct contradiction of Quran to reject it

 

[Black_cats]

Prophet (SAW) avoided stoning people for adultery. Just like divorce is disliked in Islam. That however doesn't mean disapproval for this punishment

Hazrat Umar (RA) was very clear about Rajm that it was allowed by Prophet (SAW) and was continued after his demise

Narrated By Ibn ‘Abbas : ‘Umar said, “I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, “We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book,” and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession.” Sufyan added, “I have memorized this narration in this way.” ‘Umar added, “Surely Allah’s Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him.”

​

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Hadith Number 816.​

Not really

Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah:

A man committed fornication with a woman. So the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) ordered regarding him and the prescribed punishment of flogging was inflicted on him. He was then informed that he was married. So he commanded regarding him and he was stoned to death.

Sunan Abu Dawood, 38:4424


​

So you want to say stoning to death verses is taken out of Quran? Isn’t it same claim like goat eaten part of Quran verses which is not part of Quran today?

All quranic verses used to be memorized by Muslims then it used to be written. That itself prove the Caliph Umar’s Hadith is not authentic.

As many Jews and Christian later converted to Islam they were in favor of keeping this tradition of stoning which goes against quran where there are no such reference. Period.

 

[Areesh]

So you want to say stoning to death verses is taken out of Quran? Isn’t it same claim like goat eaten part of Quran verses which is not part of Quran today?

I never said that. Hazrat Umar (RA) simply said people would stop stoning adulterers just because they can't find a verse explicitly asking for stoning of adulterers so he cleared that stoning is still punishment for adultery by a married individual

It is pretty simple. You are misinterpreting my post wrong

 

[iamnobody]

Ask a legal Court to try a man or woman for extramarital acts, Mullah laws cannot supersede Civil Laws. I have never heard of a Muslim man ever being flogged for staring at women with lust in his eyes and raping them in his mind when not possible to rape them physically,

If so, Muslim men must be required to wear Hijab over their eyes. This is the best way to send them to Islamic Paradice.

The best recipe is to take down that ugly-looking Hijab from the women and grow shame in the eyes and minds of those masturbating Muslim men, Hijab has been recommended by the later Mullah groups. Never it was mandatory.

Are you Bangladeshi version of @jamahir

 

[-=virus=-]

I never said that. Hazrat Umar (RA) simply said people would stop stoning adulterers just because they can't find a verse explicitly asking for stoning of adulterers so he cleared that stoning is still punishment for adultery by a married individual

It is pretty simple. You are misinterpreting my post wrong

Men ke liye bhi koi proscribed punishment hai if they cheat on all 4 wifeys with some 5th waali ?

 

[Areesh]

Men ke liye bhi koi proscribed punishment hai if they cheat on all 4 wifeys with some 5th waali ?

Same

 

[jamahir]

Just like divorce is disliked in Islam.

Eh ?

And please stop quoting those fabrications called hadeeths.

Are you Bangladeshi version of @jamahir

No. @bluesky hates Hasina bibi and the Awami League and desires for a NATO regime change project for BD.

 

[bluesky]

And please stop quoting those fabrications called hadeeths.

It took more than 200 years for various Islamic scholars to write many different books on the religion that we call Hadith.

Can someone claim there are no lies and fabrications? If one Mullah wrote some falsehood, later Mullahs who wrote their respective books followed their predecessors.

This is how there are many false statements in the Hadith. But, anyway, no human needs old books to propel forward.

We need books on scientific knowledge and not theology.

 

[Black_cats]

I never said that. Hazrat Umar (RA) simply said people would stop stoning adulterers just because they can't find a verse explicitly asking for stoning of adulterers so he cleared that stoning is still punishment for adultery by a married individual

It is pretty simple. You are misinterpreting my post wrong

You are quoting just one version of the Hadith. In other version caliph Omar said it was part of Quran.

Saheeh Muslim

Book 017, Number 4194:
'Abdullah b. 'Abbas reported that 'Umar b. Khattab sat on the pulpit of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Verily Allah sent Muhammad (may peace be upon him) with truth and He sent down the Book upon him, and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him. We recited it, retained it in our memory and understood it. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) awarded the punishment of stoning to death (to the married adulterer and adulteress) and, after him, we also awarded the punishment of stoning, I am afraid that with the lapse of time, the people (may forget it) and may say: We do not find the punishment of stoning in the Book of Allah, and thus go astray by abandoning this duty prescribed by Allah. Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah's Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or it there is pregnancy, or a confession.

If stoning to death to be something mandatory and word of God it would be part of Quran. Some Muslim scholar claims it’s affect still in place just because few adulterer were stoned to death by Prophet Muhammad but they forget it was more of a local custom then religious law.

 

[Mentee]

@Punch777, why the Angry react ?

Iam yet to figure out, how did all 4 or more, sane and practicing Muslims manage to witness the intercourse or to be more precise, the act of penetration, all at once ? And if, by chance they did witness such an act, then why only that female got lashed ?

 

[Areesh]

You are quoting just one version of the Hadith. In other version caliph Omar said it was part of Quran.

Saheeh Muslim

Book 017, Number 4194:
'Abdullah b. 'Abbas reported that 'Umar b. Khattab sat on the pulpit of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Verily Allah sent Muhammad (may peace be upon him) with truth and He sent down the Book upon him, and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him. We recited it, retained it in our memory and understood it. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) awarded the punishment of stoning to death (to the married adulterer and adulteress) and, after him, we also awarded the punishment of stoning, I am afraid that with the lapse of time, the people (may forget it) and may say: We do not find the punishment of stoning in the Book of Allah, and thus go astray by abandoning this duty prescribed by Allah. Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah's Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or it there is pregnancy, or a confession.

If stoning to death to be something mandatory and word of God it would be part of Quran. Some Muslim scholar claims it’s affect still in place just because few adulterer were stoned to death by Prophet Muhammad but they forget it was more of a local custom then religious law.

The verse was amongst those verses that are abrogated and removed from recitation but retain its legal force. That is why Umar (RA) explicitly mentioned it that people should continue to do stoning even if they don't find it in Quran

Some Muslim scholar claims it’s affect still in place just because few adulterer were stoned to death by Prophet Muhammad but they forget it was more of a local custom then religious law.

You seem to forget that Prophet (SAW) didn't do anything to please any local custom unless it is allowed in Sharia or is part of Sharia. Same is the case with this punishment, We don't find any hadeeth asking this punishment to be abolished while on contrary there are many many others that explicitly say that it is still sharia punishment for adultery

 

[Mentee]

Al Quran, chapter Noor



4. And those who accuse chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, flog them with eighty stripes, and reject their testimony forever, they indeed are the Fasiqun (liars, rebellious, disobedient to Allah).

5. Except those who repent thereafter and do righteous deeds,verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

6. And for those who accuse their wives, but have no witnesses except themselves, let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies by Allah that he is one of those who speak the truth.

7. And the fifth (testimony) (should be) the invoking of the Curse of Allah on him if he be of those who tell a lie (against her).

8. But it shall avert the punishment (of stoning to death) from her, if she bears witness four times by Allah, that he (her husband) is telling a lie.

9. And the fifth (testimony) should be that the Wrath of Allah be upon her if he (her husband) speaks the truth.

10. And had it not been for the Grace of Allah and His Mercy on you And that Allah is the One Who accepts repentance, the All-Wise.



@jamahir,


wanna be jurists and hadees maniacs from all religions better abandon their cultural misogyny and super imposing their twisted exegises upon others because the PRIMARY SOURCE, THE QURANIC TEXT, is very much clear as to how to handle such situation. And plz do keep in mind these Verses acted as a deterent in favour of the women kind back in the dark ages when she was considered nothing short of a property and still now . All parties involved only have to take woes and go about their usual business , that's it.

 

[Black_cats]

The verse was amongst those verses that are abrogated and removed from recitation but retain its legal force. That is why Umar (RA) explicitly mentioned it that people should continue to do stoning even if they don't find it in Quran



You seem to forget that Prophet (SAW) didn't do anything to please any local custom unless it is allowed in Sharia or is part of Sharia. Same is the case with this punishment, We don't find any hadeeth asking this punishment to be abolished while on contrary there are many many others that explicitly say that it is still sharia punishment for adultery

People follow local custom and tradition. Slavery was one of them. Though it’s not liked by Prophet Muhammed but it was practiced but not abolished.

Stoning to death was never part of Quran. Abrogation happen when more better verse comes at a later time but not something taken out of Quran. All abrogated verses and verses before that are still part of Quran.

It’s effect still remain is based on a very weak ground that Prophet Muhammad followed it in few occasion but that’s more based on tradition then local law. Quran is very clear on adultery both for married and unmarried man/woman.