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BANGLADESH and PAKISTAN - The destruction of Buddhism and Hinduism

Absolutely correct.

Though one should not relate everything of India to Hindus as Pakistan is not all about Mos.lems!

And how many coverted to save their property!

The overwhelming number of people migrating one way or the other were Muslims and Hindus from what I understand.

If the numbers of those who migrated indicate a discrepancy, I imagine that the discrepancy would be explained by either conversions or killings - neither necessarily good.

But if the conversions occurred over time, then it becomes harder to look them in a negative light. I think that authentic, independent demographic data needs to be analyzed in order to arrive at correct conclusions about the impact on non-Muslims (specifically Hindus) after 1947.
 
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hmmm, please read our constitution and try to recall our country's formal name(Islamic Republic of Pakistan). Dude we are an Islamic country, not a secular country nor we are like "People's Republic....", etc etc. Our constitution says a non-muslim cannot be our president or PM.period.

Therefore, others are untermenschens, right?

Try to tell Isreal to have a Muslim leader...

The issue is India which you raised.

Check India.

It is secular.

Paksitan and Israel are not!!

Why in USA everybody was pissed off when they came to know that barak obama was a Muslim..(although he is not) and USA claims to be a champion of "freedom"..
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And yet he is being supported to the hilt by Americans!!

The very fact that he has held his own inspite of being a black and having a Mos.lem middle name indicates the freedom that all enjoy!

Dear minority rights doent mean that you start making non-muslims leaders of muslim countries....as far as temples and churches are concerned.. I yet have to see a church or temple in "bad" shape...i m in USA now but in Karachi at my housing scheme we do have a beatiful church, temples and imam bargha...rest evey non-muslim friends that I have in Pakistna have yet to complain me about mis-treatment by Pakistanis......

It doesn't?

If not, what does?
 
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The verse quoted from the Quran is also out of context - in fact such verses have been debated and and the allegations disproved several times on this forum.

Personally, whenever I come across the deliberate distortion of the Quran to validate "violent Quran" arguments, its pretty much guaranteed to be biased bull **** from an Islamophobe.
 
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The verse quoted from the Quran is also out of context - in fact such verses have been debated and and the allegations disproved several times on this forum.

Personally, whenever I come across the deliberate distortion of the Quran to validate "violent Quran" arguments, its pretty much guaranteed to be biased bull **** from an Islamophobe.

AM, I think you are ignoring that the so called deliberate distortion is more often done by Muslims (and has been throughout history) than non-Muslims.

Check some speeches by Khatami. Was he ignorant of Islam? What about Taliban? They knew their Islam and tried to strictly follow it.

May be you (and many Muslims) try to interpret Islam in a more moderate manner but are the other interpretations non-Islamic? Who decides that?
 
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AM, I think you are ignoring that the so called deliberate distortion is more often done by Muslims (and has been throughout history) than non-Muslims.

Check some speeches by Khatami. Was he ignorant of Islam? What about Taliban? They knew their Islam and tried to strictly follow it.

May be you (and many Muslims) try to interpret Islam in a more moderate manner but are the other interpretations non-Islamic? Who decides that?

And have you come across any posts of mine supporting those people?

On this thread we are concerned with this gentleman's arguments, and whatever Khatami does (the Iranian regime is widely accepted as fundamentalist, so I would imagine it would be clear that their interpretations would also be fundamentalist, and hence should not be used as excuse for people aware of that to incorporate similar interpretations while talking about Islam), does not excuse this guy from out of context quotations.

Islam does not have a central authority, and given the sheer disparity between the Taliban's view and the views of moderates, I would argue that Islam is very much a decentralized religion.
 
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A link to a Pakistani source.

http://www.sacw.net/partition/june2004IshtiaqAhmed.pdf

Hope this gives some idea of what happened? This should open the eyes of all apologists who try to give a spin to the partition events.

That link talks about events in Lahore in 1947.

Equally horrible instances occurred in India as well.

Are you denying those, and arguing that such events only happened in Pakistan?

I am looking for specific numbers related to the questions I asked earlier. No one is denying (not even the thread poster) that atrocities occurred in both nations.
 
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That link talks about events in Lahore in 1947.

Equally horrible instances occurred in India as well.

Are you denying those, and arguing that such events only happened in Pakistan?

I am looking for specific numbers related to the questions I asked earlier. No one is denying (not even the thread poster) that atrocities occurred in both nations.

AM,

India is not Heaven.

If you are talking of the Partition, none are above blame.

It was sheer Lunacy, but then we were not there to understand the same, though we are here to pass judgement in the comparative peace of our world.

Yet we all are equal.

No religious laws are imposed on others.

The day it is done in India, it will be the saddest day.
 
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AM,

India is not Heaven.

Yet we all are equal.

No religious laws are imposed on others.

The day it is done in India, it will be the saddest day.

Wonderful Salim - the US as well - equality of all man in law, and slavery and segregation for centuries in practice.

It doesn't answer my question however. I am attempting to come up with empirical arguments (demographic numbers) that relate to the decline of the Hindu (minorities) population in Pakistan, and how that compares with the numbers that migrated into and out of India.
 
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Wonderful Salim - the US as well - equality of all man in law, and slavery and segregation for centuries in practice.

It doesn't answer my question however. I am attempting to come up with empirical arguments (demographic numbers) that relate to the decline of the Hindu (minorities) population in Pakistan, and how that compares with the numbers that migrated into and out of India.

These are interesting from the academic point of view.

Why did they decline? Good reasons must be there.

But then, it would only open up wounds and not lead to the harmony that one desires between the two countries.

We have set ourselves the path of harmony and let history be set aside. Let us look to the future!
 
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Enigma,

Interesting “add ons”.

In the riots during Partition, you add on “someone should ask him...who actaully murdered whom..???)” is enigmatic. Actually, who killed whom? Are you suggesting that it was a one way massacre?

What about Khalistan, Gujerat and Kashmir? True that there have been riots and dissensions, but in a multi racial, multi ethnic country, where there is a secular constitution with equal rights, there will be dissensions and problems. More so, unlike developed nations, where affluence is the by word, those who are in developing countries and where daily existence is a challenge, causing dissensions by vested interests is no big deal!

Compare it with Pakistan, if you will. Pakistan has officially Islam as its religion and Islamic Law is applicable too for all!! That in itself is discriminatory and is a ‘’living death’’. Since you allude to Israel also, would it be fine with you if the Palestinians were subject to Jewish laws, all other things being equal? In India, with all its warts, there is no religious law that impinges on other citizens of different religious beliefs. Think that over.

Also check your census, even though it has been done in starts and fits, since these things are not of concern in Pakistan or so it appears. Where have all the minority gone? I could comment, but there is no need to have a conflagration here!

I would not have gone into all this, but since you raise the issue, I am constrained to comment. If Islam is the sole official religion, then isn’t it surprising that there are Sunni Shia riots in Pakistan, when Allah and Islam is the same? If the religion is same and even then there are the killings, then why grandstand and talk of a multi religious and multi ethnic country being satanic? Of course, if it were that you were making a fashion statement, being in the US (and hence assuming you are better than the natives), then it is a different matter!

As far as Islamisation of Pakistan and Bangladesh, is that not a truth? You comment with a Wow. May I remind you of Jinnah’s address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan? What did he say and what is it today? What is the Red Mosque all about that held Pakistan to ransom?

In so far as Suttee or burning wives with the husband as you so quaintly said, it indicates how weak is your argument. It shows that you know no history nor do you know the law! If it were true, I am sure the Human Rights movement of the world would be jumping up and down, tearing their hair. Are you from Lord William Bentinck and Raja Ram Mohan Roy’s time and still going strong?

On the issue of persecution of minorities in Pakistan and Bangladesh, you comment ‘survival of the fittest’. Should it not be applicable to India also? While you are smug in your observation in condoning religious discrimination through force, I would like to say that insecurity is the mother of discrimination. Be it anywhere in the world, including India, I feel that it is shameful and born out of sheer insecurity that what one wants to achieve is false and disgraceful!

Your indirect contention that the minorities, who are now reduced to a handful and their places of worship, are impregnably safe is fallacious. It is time you check and find out.

If the minorities in Karachi are prosperous as you claim though you give no proof and leave it as a bland statement, I am afraid, the credit is entirely theirs and not of Pakistan. In India, Mos.lems have reservation and they are a special class! Mollycoddled if you wish, while the other minorities don’t have the same privilege and they don’t care or clamour for the same. They stand on their own feet and demand to be recognized on their own merits!!

I am not surprised you are dying out of laughter. It is good for you since Laughter is the best medicine for all ailments including hallucinations!! Or so I am told!

Pakistan is an Islamic Republic.period.
If india is a secular country are we or anyone else is also supposed to do the same...is there a new resolution passed that ever country has to follow secular laws...if that the case then i beg your pardon that i was ignorant of this fact.
 
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Pakistan is an Islamic Republic and there is no doubt about that, even though that was not the aim of Jinnah.

Notwithstanding, a nation protects the rights of its citizens including those who are from other religious beliefs.

Are you suggesting that just because Pakistan is an Islamic country, all others are second class citizens? Is it so mentioned in the Constitution?

As far as I know, it does not mention so!

If you read Jinnah's address, you will realise what he has said about the religious divides!
 
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Bangladesh should join Paksitan!

Why should'nt India join Pakistan to make up f4 destroying the worlds largest Muslim Nation. Yeah we had the largest muslim nation and population before Indians decided to poke their dirty nose in our affairs. There will be a video out on that soon as well. Don't worry about it...
 
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That link talks about events in Lahore in 1947.

Equally horrible instances occurred in India as well.

Are you denying those, and arguing that such events only happened in Pakistan?

I am looking for specific numbers related to the questions I asked earlier. No one is denying (not even the thread poster) that atrocities occurred in both nations.

There is no denying that horrors happened on both sides. In India they were limited to specific areas like Punjab, Delhi, Bihar and Bengal. Areas which felt the impact of the refugees coming from across the border to the maximum extent. If there was a deliberate move to evict Muslims from India, it would have happened all across India like it happened in Pakistan.

The very fact that in India the impact was so limited in location itself provides empirical evidence that it was mainly revenge violence once the refugees coming back told the horror stories.

Even in areas like Hyderabad where Razakaars had indulged in violence against the natives, there was no large scale exodus of Muslims after India recovered the state.

While I can not give you the statistics you asked for as I don't have them, just looking at the number of minorities left in each country should give a fair idea of where the violence was planned and where it was a reaction.
 
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Why should'nt India join Pakistan to make up f4 destroying the worlds largest Muslim Nation. Yeah we had the largest muslim nation and population before Indians decided to poke their dirty nose in our affairs. There will be a video out on that soon as well. Don't worry about it...

And why should the largest Muslim nation be in the Indian subcontinent and not in Arabia?

How will Arabia repent for all the misery, mass murders, rapine and genocide they inflicted all over the place? The kind of barbarity and intolerance shown by these guys has no parallel in history. How would you compensate for that?
 
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