Balochistan Liberation Army *Banned*

[EagleEyes]

Well this is a good news that this group has been banned. Now lets see who supports this group.

Groups banned by new terror law

Two UK-based Islamist groups are to become the first to be banned under laws outlawing the glorification of terrorism, the home secretary has said.

John Reid said he was taking action against Al-Ghurabaa and the Saved Sect.

Under an order put down in Parliament, it will be an offence to belong to the groups, encourage support for them or wear clothes suggesting support.

Mr Reid said the move sent a signal that the UK would not tolerate people who supported terrorism.

The groups are both thought to be offshoots of Al Muhajiroun, which was founded by controversial cleric Omar Bakri Mohammed.

Mr Reid is also banning two foreign groups, the Baluchistan Liberation Army and Teyrebaz Azadiye Kurdistan.

And Kongra Gele Kurdistan and KADEK are also being added to the banned list because they are two alternative names for the Kurdish terrorist group PKK, which is already outlawed.

Ban reaction

Al-Ghurabaa and the Saved Sect were named earlier this year as the organisers of the protests outside the Danish Embassy in London against cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad.

Some protesters held placards with slogans such as "massacre those who insult Islam".

Speaking on BBC News 24, Anjem Choudary, spokesman for Al-Ghurabaa, was asked whether his organisation would defend a suicide attack on British soil.

"We've always been on record as saying that we have a covenant of security in Britain," he said.

"We are not allowed to target anyone in this country because we live with them. Our life and wealth is protected.

"But I feel that with these new laws which are now being introduced, if you are going to ban ideological and political movements like Al-Ghurabaa and the Saved Sect, than that situation, I think, is going to be affected."

More to come?
Tony Blair said last August that Al-Muhajiroun itself - or its successor group - and the Hizb ut Tahrir organisation would be banned.

Al-Muhajiroun has disbanded but Hizb ut Tahrir is not on the Home Office's list of proscribed groups.

A spokesman said decisions about whether to ban other groups were still pending.

Asked about Hizb ut Tahrir, the spokesman added: "This does remain a group about which we have real concerns and we are keeping the situation under review."

The laws outlawing glorification against terrorism were only passed after a prolonged stalemate between the House of Commons and House of Lords.

'No celebrations'
Critics of the measure said it threatened to restrict freedom of speech and legitimate debate.

But as he announced the bans, Mr Reid said the laws meant the government could make it even more difficult for terrorists to operate.
"I am determined to act against those who, while not directly involved in committing acts of terrorism, provide support for and make statements that glorify, celebrate and exalt the atrocities of terrorist groups," he said.

"I am also committed to ensuring that those organisations that change their name do not avoid the consequences of proscription."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5188136.stm

 

[Neo]

Well this is a good news that this group has been banned. Now lets see who supports this group.

Great news, should have been done long time ago!
I hope some thing is being done to isolate BLA cells in Afghanistan and Zahedan aswell.

 

[wadawada]

Great news, should have been done long time ago!
I hope some thing is being done to isolate BLA cells in Afghanistan and Zahedan aswell.

these groups are necessary for usa and israel to create and keep unstability in islamic countries.

kurdish PKK is fund, trained and allied with mossad, and protected in usa by jewish "kurdish" organisations. even against the turkish "ally".


i don't know much about these pakistano groups, but i don't think they'll disapear soon, or that those who support them will chage that ( usa ? probably). it is logically possible that india support them as well, as it could create a destabilisation for pakistan, but it is more likely that usa does. remember: usa is with everybody and with no body. the only amrican sacred principle is self-interest.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Great news, should have been done long time ago!
I hope some thing is being done to isolate BLA cells in Afghanistan and Zahedan aswell.

The banning of various radical religious organisation and non religious revolution mongerers will have no effect.

If it did then after 7/7, there would be no terrorist threat as the one where British born of Pakistani origin planned to serially blow up airliners in the air. It is no idea of casting aspertions on Pakistan incapability to battle terrorism alone.

In the US, after 9/11, there has been no threat. Why? Because the terrorists know that Bush means business and so do the govts where terrorism emanates!

The British govt of Blair, on the other hand, wants to race with the hares and hunt with the hounds. Such ambivalence and pussyfooting does not impress any terrorist. Even Musharraf is doing a better job inspite of having all roads leading to his country. If Musharraf, inspite of the odds and a serious threat to his life can do it, then Blair can do it do. Of course, one can say that Musharraf, being a General, couldn't care less about politics and its hurly burly, but then Blair is also on the way out.

Unless a Bush type of attitude to terrorism is taken, all the Queen's horsemen and all the Queen's men cannot put UK together again!

More than Pakistan (as it is internationally portrayed), UK is the hotbed of all terrorism!

 

[wadawada]

1-The banning of various radical religious organisation and non religious revolution mongerers will have no effect.
....

2-Unless a Bush type of attitude to terrorism is taken, all the Queen's horsemen and all the Queen's men cannot put UK together again!
....
3-More than Pakistan (as it is internationally portrayed), UK is the hotbed of all terrorism!

1-not necessary true. if the group have a deep popular root (let's say, hezbollah), it won't have an effect, as it would be a political movement.

however, the huge majority of terrorist groups are not political, but rather militants, funded or protected by foreign powers to serve "parallel" interests, going from anarchy and sabotage to war justification to regime change.

in that case, i think that these groups belong to teh second category. and let's hope that it changes things to the best. at least weakening them.

2-I am sincerly shocked and amazed that an indian believes that bush/neocon type of reaction is either efficient, intelligent or even serious.

let's not forget that usa have been behind the biggest islamissts movements in arab area and international wahabism. that "democratic" france and g.b protected shiaa khomeiny against the "secular" shah, that mossad did its best to kill to the last the palestinian secular nationalist FPLP but "spared" the newly anti-FPLP hamas (muslims brotherhood, who have ben know to have also some "indirect" relations with the mossad). does talibans and saudia and their deep connection to usa/g.b means something to you ?

in that aspect, the TRUE anti-teror bush actions were as simple as giving orders to their "allies" to calm down and control their craziest elements. this is not what we can call a serious achivement. just see how usa still protect the wahabi regime to understand that usa is doing us a great hollywood show and not a real war on the SOURCE of backward islamic ideology (that is hurting the saudi and sunni and arab peoples more than anyone else).

when it comes to fake trror cells, bush attitude is efficient because they know them better than anyone else. when it comes to TRUE terror cells, IF THEY EVER exist (hezbollah is a resitance movement, the mujahidine in afganistan are also mainly resistance...), the neocons admin will be inneficient, becasue the true terror cells would have their roots inside the populations.

in fact, the praised neocon attitude is activly helping the creation of these kind of terror cells. i have a news for you, certainly that you might not have seen it outside purly arabo-islamic channels: the HUGE majority of arabs and sunnis are against al qaida and benladen. they consider him as : stupid, violent, inneficient and dangerous. they ask why he killed christians and not zionsits, why he provoked usa against muslims, why he killed other muslims and thretened the security inside islamic countries. NOW, with the neocon "exemplary" attitude against the legitime resitance of hezbollah and hamas, the arabs have a greated despise of the usa, more consciousness of the systematic hypocrisy and american anti-arabo-islamic hate, and for the first time in modern history a religious shiite leader as a national hero from morocco to EVEN saudia.

indeed, a briliant job. i just don't know if the americans (remeber: neocons are also supported by so called pacifists, i.e democrats, like joe lieberman and co.) and the israeli are plain stupid, or have some plan to push the world to WW3.

3-i fully agree. usa and g.b are the biggest, greatest protectors of terror, REAL pathologic terrorists EVER.

to understand the "why" is simple:
they need anarchist fundametalist groups to prevent any kind of stability in arab nations.
they need violent counterpower to established regimes.
they need justifications for american power and presence in the M.E.
they need to prove to their citizens that muslims are so terror-loving and genetically dangerous that the world without g.b and usa will be turned to another caliphate.
and finally, they know that the huge majority of muslim immigrants are MOSTLY unhappy with their governements (political ,economical), so theiy encourage these kind of organisations to control the immigrants anger. why ? because anger push to thinking. thinking in a free natural context, without disproportianate political desiquilibrum, bring solutions. sonner or later, these angry immigrats will join some "nationalist" ideology, that is, some pro-sovreignty political movements. of course, this will put an end to all puppet regimes (theirs !) , create uncontrollable States, lose control or domination over precious geostrategical or economical countries. => put the global eco-financial system at risk.

if I were like george or tony, working for Big Oil, Big Military, Big Mining..., I would also feel uncomfortable with the emergence of a free nationalist saudia, free nationalist iran, free nationalist congo etc...

 

[Awesome]

I don't know much about these pakistano groups, but i don't think they'll disapear soon, or that those who support them will chage that ( usa ? probably). it is logically possible that india support them as well, as it could create a destabilisation for pakistan, but it is more likely that usa does. remember: usa is with everybody and with no body. the only amrican sacred principle is self-interest.

The US factor for the BLA has popped up recently and much investigation needs to be done for some real confirmation.

But the real hard evidence we have is that India has opted to open several (4 to 8) consulates at the border region of Afghanistan and Pakistan. The consulates given the diplomatic immunity can do anything and no one can touch them. American forces as it is, is not concerned with what terrorism they'd spread to Pakistan, the occasional bomb or two in the border provinces are funded by the money that they transfer.

If it did then after 7/7, there would be no terrorist threat as the one where British born of Pakistani origin planned to serially blow up airliners in the air. It is no idea of casting aspertions on Pakistan incapability to battle terrorism alone.

If the US joins in, it can perhaps instruct its forces to prevent any BLA exchange along the border.

2-I am sincerly shocked and amazed that an indian believes that bush/neocon type of reaction is either efficient, intelligent or even serious.

You have to take the social and political climate in India to understand that. Bush's war against Islam can be hoped to further India's greatest enemies that accept Islam as their faith.

Enough lines?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Wadawada,

There is some problem somewhere. I cannot see the "Quote" button of your post and so I will not be able to answer your post point by point since it is tedious to scroll up and down. So, forgive me for that.

I still don't approve of the strict and sometime draconian provisions that the US has adopted. However, this also cannot be denied that it has proved successful in the light of the bumbling that the UK govt has displayed or even the Indian govt.

15 Aug is India's Independence Day. It is a day for celebration. Instead of celebrations, we are having a self imposed confinement to the four walls of our homes or even if we go out, we have to move around on prescribed routes which will be packed because other roads are blocked for security reasons. A prisoner on a day on which we became free! I hope you realise the irony and frustration of the situation. A prisoner on the day we were freed!

Asim is incorrect when he states "You have to take the social and political climate in India to understand that. Bush's war against Islam can be hoped to further India's greatest enemies that accept Islam as their faith".

It has nothing to do with Islam or Pakistan, unless he wishes to club all people who follow Islam as terrorists and that Pakistan is a terrorist country. This is a most flawed and unfortuante opinion expressed by Asim. Apparently, he has made this type of a statement to provoke and sort of soft soap you to stand up for the Ummah i.e. go ballistic against India.

As I have explained earlier, I do subscribe to the view that religion has nothing to do with our day rote. If it were not because of religion, then where would be what is today termed as terrorism? Some clever people have used this powerful vehicle called religion and manipulate it to make people angry, disillusioned and ashamed leading to this confrontation.

Palestine is a social problem. It a struggle between two COMMUNITIES for the right to live on a piece of land. I will not go into this socal problem here since it will be a digression to what I am discussing. But, it has been given a religious hues on both sides of the problem. And religion being a strong elixir, irrationality on both sides have led to "defenders of the faith" on both sides. And the schism has deepened and now beyond redemption. If the problem did not have a religious angle, then possibly it could have been solved. Now, it is a Jew vs Islam pwoer struggle! Bring in religion and you can forget about any solution because irrationality surfaces (like Asim's post as if India is bedevilled by the Pakistan is an Islamic country. If that was the case India would be against all Islamic countries and which is not the case).

As far as the US is concerned, it has always supported despotic heads of countries, be the military dictators or fraudly foisted Shieks and Shahs. The reason is simple, these Sheiks, Shahs and military or civil dictators are concerned about their countries as long as their position is safe and these frauds will do anything to ensure the same including sell their country and people for their own personal good. So, why blame the US? The US is furthering their own national interests by propping up these pretenders. And these pretenders do anything and everything what the US wants. There can be no better thing for the US. So, one cannot blame the US. People keep dogs and not Tigers as pets. Dogs after is a loyal friend!

 

[Bull]

Neo had posted a good article regarding the baluchistan puzzle.I think that was well written and points to the existance of more than just one parties interests.

And regarding BLA,why did they allow such a extremist force to pop first of all.

 

[sparten]

BLA is Bugti tribe. And there cronies. Not all Balochistan (which is not only 30 % Baloch anyway) or all Baloch people, in fact hardly any.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Forgive me for asking but Spartan are you a Baloch?

You seem to know a great amount about them.

 

[Awesome]

Pakistanis generally would know a lot about Pakistan.

 

[Neo]

Sparten is a true pathan indeed, not a fake one like me.

 

[wadawada]

You have to take the social and political climate in India to understand that. Bush's war against Islam can be hoped to further India's greatest enemies that accept Islam as their faith.

Enough lines?

yes.

I hope however that the mass of indians AND the majority of elite don't think that way...

 

[Awesome]

It's hard to determine the right picture.

I'm sure its not the masses, since the typical trend in the sub-continent is to just making a living and thats what the day to day life is concerned about.

But as we've seen there are an alarming number of them. Thats why minorities in India have been massacred at least at a rate of once per decade, last one massacred 2000 muslims in 2002 burning them alive in the streets of Gujarat.

When they came for help to the police they were told "Why don't you ask help from Pakistan?". Clearly underscoring that the contempt towards Muslims is associated by the fact that Pakistanis are Muslims.

Still India is a big country. There are many more good people than the bad. Our friend Salim however carries an interesting resume which I'd leave at his own discretion to tell you all about.

 

[wadawada]

Wadawada,

There is some problem somewhere. I cannot see the "Quote" button of your post and so I will not be able to answer your post point by point since it is tedious to scroll up and down. So, forgive me for that.

no prob. it's perhaps some DRM trick in this site. $1 to "quote"

I still don't approve of the strict and sometime draconian provisions that the US has adopted. However, this also cannot be denied that it has proved successful in the light of the bumbling that the UK govt has displayed or even the Indian govt.

I'm not condemning the neocons by the name of moral principles. there are no moral principles between the states, in principle. when that happens, it's generally a kind of "miracle". and there are no more miracles in the 21stC. as it seems...

the "draconian" is the exact key word. it is mostly hollywoodian, without prooving it's efficiency. the best proof is the latest event.

please take into account that usa and the majority of the west ahve sacrified many aspects of their civil rights. for what result ? a terrorist plan that have been prevented as it seems. for one effective intervention ,how many will fail ?

morover, we're her only facing the remanant of the old "cool" relation ship between the us/west and the talibans. many of the "old/calssical" militants groups are well known/infiltrated/controlled by the usa/west/mossad.

what about SERIOUS POLITICALLY backed groups ? what about "new age" militant groups who may have learnt fro mthe latest experiences ?

i'll give you an example: the UKASA (us, uk ,canada, australia, japan) alliance run the Echelon program for globbal surveillance. it is seconded by TIA (tota linformation awarness) to feed the biggeest personnal database ever, including alsmost every possible detail). These huge intelligence programs that include now also the local citizens are automated. they listen and uderstnd arabic. arabic? which one ? the only codified arabic is the classical one that no one uses ! the arabic dialects are so flexible that it is almost possible to eliminate half the sentece without loosing the meaning ! how can a computer understand "metaphores" ?

this is just about the SIGINT bugs.

let's get back to the powerful eternal componant : HUMINT . ok, infiltration. ok, you can use other "puppet/friend" countries' sec. serv to infiltrate for you. but almost all political groups, militant or not religious or not etc.. are fully aware of that. that means that the infiltration will be harder. example: hezbollah.


what remains in this policy is the necessary PSYOPS, here : intimidation : if you kill 5000 citizens, we nuke you (this is how muslims see america: mostly a stock of WMD. which is true.) , we declare a crusade etc...

but these "drastic" PSYOPS works only when the other side is islolated. it worked against al qaida (in the arab world) because : ben laden was, and is, no one; al qaida is wahabis, which is far from being accepted at 100% even in saudia while fiercly rejeted by shiaa and secularized regions; al qaida have acted as criminals, and except the same 1 to 3% who are receptive to total anarchy (begining in their own islamic nations), al qaida have been considered as a maffia, even ridiculous. almost the whole islamic world have jokes about them, and we have many TV series about the pervert birth of this group in afganiostan, from the human and islamic side.

now, these "draconian" actions work for this precise case, but won't work any more. first, usa have lost what she had a a "credibility". not as a neocon stronghold, but simply as a COUNTRY. hezbollah have won, and by winning have shown the method to follow for other groups, wether they are defensive/legitimate or offensive/criminal is not important.

the "neocon one best way" does not work, especially that there is no "islamist" model. there are as much potential "islamist" movements as there are tribes at least. there are very different islamic problems on earth. muslims are not a nation, not an ethnical group, not a state, not even an ummah (at least two center of power : iran and saudia, without taking into account the ethno-civilisation differneces inside each of these. as an example, it is just useless and impossible to compare lebases , palestinians and syrians, while they are "considered" as "arabs" !!!).

the actions of usa is helping to create an ummah, who is still looking for her heroes (people who might give her back some glory and self respect) ahmadinejad, nasrallah are candidates...

this means that what usa does, invading afganistan (instead of letting pakistan and iran take care, and they WOULD do it because they have interests), destroying iraq (instead of letting saddam there until a revolt happens), preparing to attack syria or iran... is not seving in any sense the war on terrorists, by serving it's geostrategical interests against russia and china, while FEDDING indirectly (trying only to limit the causalities) the potential violent reactions.

in fact, we must be serious: america have no problems with terrorism. at teh contray, it help her to keep a unified pro-admin front, and pass laws (like domestic surveullance) who help especially, and are really efficient, against chinese or russian activities...america have better and more dangerous (for its interests as an empire ) ennemies to fight.

15 Aug is India's Independence Day. It is a day for celebration. Instead of celebrations, we are having a self imposed confinement to the four walls of our homes or even if we go out, we have to move around on prescribed routes which will be packed because other roads are blocked for security reasons. A prisoner on a day on which we became free! I hope you realise the irony and frustration of the situation. A prisoner on the day we were freed!

I sincerly feel sorry for what is happening in india and between india and pakistan.


my very incomplete POV:

siding with usa, even as a moral ally or a good example, will "confirm" to terrorists their morality. the worst side you could take is that of usa. I don't mean by this that your external policy should be influenced by terrorists, but rather should take into account long term gains and losses.

-let's assume that terrorists are originating from pakistan, and that official pakistan have any interest of helping them. this same pakistan is also in the orbit of usa, whoch make from usa an anormal "friend", siding with yoyr ennemies.

-let's assume that terrorists are not origianting from pakistan, and that official pakistan does everything against them but fails. this same pakistan would be better helped by india if the terrorists had the lesser excuses.

ok as aI saif, this POV may seem stupid and is very incomplete, but i belive that in any cases, taking usa as an ally will only make thing more complex.

there are only two winners in this game: usa and terrorists.

Asim is incorrect when he states "You have to take the social and political climate in India to understand that. Bush's war against Islam can be hoped to further India's greatest enemies that accept Islam as their faith".

I agree with him, as an eventuality.