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Bajrang Dal terrorists attack Churches

:cry: its not good . I like Tamil Nadu.
It shouldnt be plauged by this.

Tamil Nadu is an area where in the history Christian pastor was given shelterd although he was killed by the chasing Hindus.

The place where he was killed thare us a Church there in Chennai it has a history.


I do condem the riots, and organization of bajrang dal and shiv sena, but American Christian Society have increased it missionary of christianity towards South India. As much as soliciting in front of the temple. Would that be one cause of these riots in South India?

This forcefullness and daily soliciting can bring about aggrevation and anger towards the religion. Hence riots!
 
I do condem the riots, and organization of bajrang dal and shiv sena, but American Christian Society have increased it missionary of christianity towards South India. As much as soliciting in front of the temple. Would that be one cause of these riots in South India?

This forcefullness and daily soliciting can bring about aggrevation and anger towards the religion. Hence riots!

Mr friend, nothing justifies killing minorities anyway.
 
I do condem the riots, and organization of bajrang dal and shiv sena, but American Christian Society have increased it missionary of christianity towards South India. As much as soliciting in front of the temple. Would that be one cause of these riots in South India?

This forcefullness and daily soliciting can bring about aggrevation and anger towards the religion. Hence riots!

They are not doing it at Gun Point so why one takes it any reason for killing innocent.

Its plain fundamentalism just like barbaric takfiris of Baitullah. No difference both are killing innocent for self-made ideology.
 
They are not doing it at Gun Point so why one takes it any reason for killing innocent.


So, If the Christian were solicting front of a mosque, you would not get angry? Does it really require a gun to make a person angry?

Please Mrs. Jana, just because they are not doing it at gun point does not signify the tactics they have recently used. If a person is polked enough, he will be annoyed enough to polked back.
 
So, If the Christian were solicting front of a mosque, you would not get angry? Does it really require a gun to make a person angry?

Please Mrs. Jana, just because they are not doing it at gun point does not signify the tactics they have recently used. If a person is polked enough, he will be annoyed enough to polked back.

No i would not at all get angry because i believe if i have the right to preach my belief others have the equal right to do so.

As far the preaching or conversion well i will post you the reality of that too here but not now i am dead tierd to check that from data.Will do so tommorrow

And you need to understand that common Hindus are not irritated by this solicting nor they attack others for doing so.
Its the fundamentalist Hindus or more precisly the Extermist Hindu organisations that are doing so indulging in killings whereas the common Hindus are not much botherd.
So there is need to deal these fundamentalists sternly.



.
 
No i would not at all get angry because i believe if i have the right to preach my belief others have the equal right to do so.

As far the preaching or conversion well i will post you the reality of that too here but not now i am dead tierd to check that from data.Will do so tommorrow

And you need to understand that common Hindus are not irritated by this solicting nor they attack others for doing so.
Its the fundamentalist Hindus or more precisly the Extermist Hindu organisations that are doing so indulging in killings whereas the common Hindus are not much botherd.
So there is need to deal these fundamentalists sternly.



.

So there is need to deal these fundamentalists sternly.


Agreed.

As far the preaching or conversion well i will post you the reality of that too

Please do so, thank you.
 
Not everyone critical is an enemy, read this Indian journalists account

Khaleej Times Online

Are Muslims in India Being Pushed to the Corner?
Syed Qamar Hasan (ISSUES)

28 September 2008

Last week at a 'Barza' (majlis-Ramdhania) of a prominent UAE businessman, I was introduced to an Arab diplomat. When told I am a journalist from India living and working in the UAE for more than two decades, he shot a question at me, “'hat is happening in your country: bombs, violence, places of worship being burnt, terrorism is getting worse by the day, this is not 'Gandi’s' India?”

I said, sir, with all due respect it is ‘Gandhi’ and not ‘Gandi’, you missed the “H”.

Forget the “H”, your country is facing a very serious and dangerous situation that need to be corrected rather than my pronunciation.

I told him it is not that serious as it has become with our neighbours or Iraq. Ufortunately, a few misguided youth from the Muslim community are alleged to be involved in bomb explosions in various cities of India, and the police claims to have nabbed them. We all hope this is the end. He did not agree, telling me that he knew India quite well, having spent couple of years as a student and later on an assignment for his country in Delhi. What is happening In India does not augur well, the situation can get ugly and even more dangerous.

He sighted the example of Iraq where initially roadside bombs meant to hurt and kill US soldiers turning into suicide bombers killing innocent civilians. The situation got worse and more dangerous while the frequency of roadside bombings increased, a new dimension began to surface, the deadly suicide bombers turning the country into a living hell, killing innocent men and women.

I said, there is no comparison between the two countries. There are no occupying forces in India, ours is a free democratic and pluralistic society, all citizens have equal rights; we are a nation of over a billion people of various faiths, cultures and languages living together from years and for years. It is only at times nearing general elections that the right-wing Hindu fundamentalist parties and other like-minded groups give nightmares to minorities, especially the largest, the 200 million Muslims.

You know why I am comparing the bombing incidents in your country to Iraq? In Iraq the American Army responded brutally to the roadside bombings, making indiscriminate arrests of the innocent on slightest suspicion, torturing them to get information, breaking into their homes at middle of the night, violating the privacy of families, keeping innocent men and women in prison without any charges, gunning down motorists, etc., in the belief and hope that this will put an end to the roadside attacks.

Instead of putting an end to the roadside bombings, the humiliation, the torture and family pride hurt led more and more men and women to opt for violent methods as a reactionary measure
.

The callous and brutal behaviour of US forces created suicide bombers in Iraq. And from what I see on television channels and newspapers, police in India is resorting to more or less the same tactics in dealing with the bomb blasts: bungled arrests of the innocent, torturing for confession, mid-night arrests, entering homes and taking away young men for interrogations.

I do not know if his predictions that the situation could get worse — turning “destructive terrorism” into “suicide terrorism” are proved right. (Two of the three terms, Professor Robert A. Pape, Director of the Chicago Project on Suicide Terrorism at the University of Chicago, uses to describe the types of terrorism being faced by people around the globe, the third is “demonstrative terrorism).

I sincerely pray and wish the government of India, the law-enforcing agencies and the television channels show wisdom and foresight and come up with a code of conduct and laws that can put an end to this madness. I hold all the three equally responsible for mishandling and inflaming the issue.

However, given the manner in which Indian Police is conducting itself in apprehending the bomb blast suspects’ gives enough reason to fear what this diplomat predicts.

Making indiscriminate arrests of innocent Muslim youth, producing new “master minds” every 24 hours, presenting arrested persons before the media with faces covered with the traditional checkered headscarves — worn by Arabs and Muslims, producing sensational background information and evidences within 24 hours of arrest – the first day the accused are shown as members of HUJI (Harkatul Jihad Islami), the next day they are SIMI (Students Islamic Movement of India) members and finally associated with IM (Indian Mujahedeen).


Classifying destruction of churches claimed by Bajrang Dal goons as thefts, is giving wrong signals that could damage the communal harmony and alienate the minorities. Professor Robert A. Pape in his best-selling book on the psychology of suicide terrorism titled, “Dying to Win” says, one strong reason among several others for terrorism to grow into suicide terrorism is revenge.

Revenge seeking to lash out against those whom they believe are responsible for the unjust arrests, tortures, deaths of family members, close friends and humiliation of family and religion.

His theory fits like a glove with the situation in India, vis-a-vis the Muslim youth arrested on suspicion and ******* in Indian jails, suffering torture in police lock-ups and undisclosed loc
ations.

Human rights and civil activists say many of these young men are picked up in the middle of night from their homes or places of work in a KGB style operation; taken to remote places and kept in custody for days without being produced in any court of law.

Those set free by courts for lack of evidence face another kind of torture and torment as they are rejected and shunned by the society — becoming pariahs, finding refuge in terrorist outfits. Many brilliant young Muslim men pursuing professional courses at universities and many successfully employed have suffered to this day.

Apathy, alienation and disillusionment seem to have gripped the Muslims. So much so that secular elites among the community and intellectuals like Professor Mushirul Hasan, Vice-Chancellor of the Jamia Milia University are voicing their concern.

The Co-ordination Committee of Indian Muslims, an association of 11 Muslim organizations, which usually maintains a silence — has come out against the Police conduct.

Mushirul Hasan has expressed his doubts on the veracity of the police encounter in which two of his students — suspected to be involved in the Delhi, Jaipur and Gujarat bombings – were killed.

Civil rights activists who have visited the Batla House apartment – where one Atif said to the mastermind behind the blasts was killed, are contesting the police claim that two of the suspects had escaped. They say the flat has only one exit — and there is no way any one can escape. Even the death of police officer, M.C. Sharma, in encounter is being questioned.

Let criminals be punished, but not innocents and the police cannot be allowed to hide their incompetence. Brutal treatment by the police of suspects to get confessions will not bring about the desired results. Men accused of involvement in the bomb blasts are no mindless miscreants from slums and hovels. They are smart, intelligent, IT savvy chaps pursuing professional studies — they have to be dealt in a manner which should help in finding the root cause of their action if at all they are guilty.

Police brutality will never help to get to the bottom. Trained psychiatrics and councilors can help bring the truth out and help rehabilitate the guilty in society.


Syed Qamar Hasan is a Abu Dhabi-based journalist
 
Indians has aspired to build a secular governance, they lay claim to a semmingly endless number of religions with adherents in India - yet today, the ability of this once and future, great civilization, seems in peril - WHY? Some of our interlocutors have identified a deficit of visionary "Leadership", a failure to envison and articuate a great future -- Can deep polarization born of unequal treatment of the government of citizens at home ever reflect the qualities, particularly Asians, can accept as manifestations of a great civilization?


Khaleej Times Online
Young Muslims are Playing with Dynamite
M J Akbar

29 September 2008

Governance is the easy part of being in power. You govern through systems. Systems are protected by institutions. Institutions grind their way forward on hierarchy, oiled by memory or precedence. When there is need for innovation, change is sifted through a time-consuming committee. The end product may not be brilliant, but it comes with minimal-risk insurance: it will not do damage, and might even do some good.

India’s bureaucracy may not be the steel-frame of old. Corruption might have left it a brittle plastic. But it serves. Very often the difference between a good and a bad Minister — the titular head of the bureaucracy — is no more than his or her ability to leave well enough alone. Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav has created a favourable reputation by the ingenious tactic of non-interference. He lets the Railway Board get on with the job and only appears on the scene when it is time to take credit. Give him full marks. More has been destroyed by the deadly combination of ego and incompetence than has been achieved in Government through genius. As the Railway Board has proved, India could be much better off if Ministers left Government on auto-pilot while they concentrated on what they know best: spilling each other’s blood.

The difficult part of power is leadership. Any term of office is divided between phases of placidity and the roils of turbulence. If turbulence is not calmed it develops quickly into a storm. Terrorism has become a raging hurricane. The statistics are well known. There is no point wasting space on them. But there is no leader who can challenge this storm, manage its fallout and restore some balm to the jangled nerves of the nation.

Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh and Congress chief Mrs Sonia Gandhi have, at best, the most banal phrases to offer. We do not need a Prime Minister to tell us that terrorism is a grave threat. That much wisdom is available from any taxi-driver, the familiar source of political perspicacity sought by a visiting journalist anywhere in the world. No one has yet written a speech for Mrs Sonia Gandhi that takes us anywhere near a remedy to this terrible disease.

An answer must begin with a question: when did terrorism begin? Too long ago. India is unique. Every faith has delivered its quota of terrorists. The Nagas who challenged Indian unity were Christians. The sister-regions of the Northeast gave us Hindu terrorists. Sikhs rose in Punjab, and Muslims in Kashmir. The overwhelming majority of Naxalites are Hindus.

And now some young non-Kashmiri Indian Muslims are playing with dynamite. Some three years ago, when President George Bush visited India, Dr Singh proudly told his American mentor that Indian Muslims did not believe in terrorism. As evidence he pointed to the absence of any Indian Muslim name in the rolls of Al Qaeda.

If this was true, then what has happened in the last three years? India has not been ruled by any party that Muslims consider hostile to their interests. Congress has been in power in Delhi. In fact, Indian Muslims believe that if they had not mobilised to an unprecedented degree the Congress would never have got enough seats in the last general elections to cobble together a coalition. Indian Muslims claim a sort of ownership of the UPA regime. Why have Dr Singh and Mrs Sonia Gandhi been unable to prevent a spurt of despair within the community?

The Congress will not even admit this question, so it is difficult to see how it can introspect its way towards an answer.
There are two principal reasons for the renewed rise of Muslim despair. First, the community has not got the justice it expected from the Congress. One fact will illustrate. While those found guilty of terrorism in the Mumbai bomb blasts of 1993 have been, rightly, punished through the legal process, those found guilty of crimes against Muslims in the preceding riots have been left untouched. The constables found guilty of state terrorism during the awful riots in Mumbai after the Babri episode in the report of the Justice Srikrishna Commission are wandering around, free. Dr Manmohan Singh, Mrs Sonia Gandhi and Sharad Pawar cannot “find” them.

The second major reason is a sense of helpless hopelessness. The history of economic deprivation long precedes the UPA Government, but its mistake was to believe that it could fudge through its term as its predecessors had fudged through theirs. Dr Singh should never have asked Justice Rajinder Sachar to find out the truth if he wanted to do nothing about it. The truth has become the ultimate betrayal, for the report is a devastating indictment of Congress neglect of its most loyal constituency. Muslim youth watched as Arjun Singh reserved even more jobs for others, and maintained an ultra-secular silence on reservations for Muslims. As I have written before, other communities got jobs under Congress; Muslims got enquiry commissions.

This was fuel for a fire that could so easily mesh into an international conflagration. The memory of riots, particularly in Mumbai and Gujarat, was equally incendiary. Indian Muslims have had apostates and middlemen as leaders. In the vacuum, a number of youth found it easy to drift towards the malevolent attraction of evil. They convinced themselves that virulent hate mail and unpardonable killing of innocents was the means to display a destructive strength. This terrorism, of course, is already hurting Indian Muslims far more than it damages their avowed targets
.

The Congress is twisting this damaged psyche further with its cynical response to terrorism. There is a suspicion, bordering on conviction, among Indian Muslims that the Government of Dr Singh and Mrs Sonia Gandhi has offered scapegoats in the form of students of the Jamia Millia University to appease majority anger after the terrorist attacks on Delhi. We do not know the full truth, but there is enough that is murky in the events of 19 September when Delhi police surrounded and killed two students of Jamia at Batla House, while two others apparently escaped.

There are questions galore, not least being the manner of the “escape”: if there was only one entrance, how could the two “escape”? Police have shifted their version after every question. The “escape” now is meant to have been through the rooftop. Did anyone see them in the daylit skyline? Nor does anyone believe in the version offered of the death of Inspector Mohan Chand Sharma. It was first put out that he had been shot in the stomach. Then pictures were published of him walking after being shot, with no evidence of a stomach wound. The latest theory is that he died of a heart attack following loss of blood. One TV station claimed that the autopsy report showed he had been shot from the back, hinting at what is known as “friendly fire”. The UPA Government then sought to demonise the community when they covered the faces of suspects with the red, patterned, Arab headdress instead of the black cloth normally used. Who got these headdresses from the market? Home Minister Shivraj Patil, who claimed that he had personally supervised these operations? Was he telling India that these suspects were linked to Arab terrorism? The questions grow each passing day, each one another fuse for anger
.

MJ Akbar is Chairman of Covert, the fortnightly news magazine
 
I believe something must indeed be done to help the Muslims out of their ghetto's in India. Its partly their own fault for not changing and sticking to the old ways-in every sense-education, jobs, etc, and partly the successive govt's fault for not developing the muslim areas in terms of education in an overdrive.
 
I believe something must indeed be done to help the Muslims out of their ghetto's in India. Its partly their own fault for not changing and sticking to the old ways-in every sense-education, jobs, etc, and partly the successive govt's fault for not developing the muslim areas in terms of education in an overdrive.

A good start would be if you and many in the majority community would stop being patronising. A better idea would be stop reading sensational articles in the press who love to stereotype muslims.

Go to Muslim majority areas in Delhi, Meerut, Mumbai, Bhopal etc and see how much trade, commerce, education is there ! Muslims have not foresaken India Inc. However there is a minority segment that is still remains backward, but then there are similar peoples in the majority community as well !!

Once more, 90% of the battle within will be won, if the majority community stops stereotyping muslims and actually care to find out how most of the muslim community of India lives
 
A good start would be if you and many in the majority community would stop being patronising. A better idea would be stop reading sensational articles in the press who love to stereotype muslims.

Go to Muslim majority areas in Delhi, Meerut, Mumbai, Bhopal etc and see how much trade, commerce, education is there ! Muslims have not foresaken India Inc. However there is a minority segment that is still remains backward, but then there are similar peoples in the majority community as well !!

Once more, 90% of the battle within will be won, if the majority community stops stereotyping muslims and actually care to find out how most of the muslim community of India lives

I can vouch for that. Just go to the markets in any Muslim dominated markets now and see the festivities, the night long brisk trade, the sheer happiness of the kids. Its great to see that.

Muslims dominate many trades in the larger cities.
 
A good start would be if you and many in the majority community would stop being patronising. A better idea would be stop reading sensational articles in the press who love to stereotype muslims.

Go to Muslim majority areas in Delhi, Meerut, Mumbai, Bhopal etc and see how much trade, commerce, education is there ! Muslims have not foresaken India Inc. However there is a minority segment that is still remains backward, but then there are similar peoples in the majority community as well !!

Once more, 90% of the battle within will be won, if the majority community stops stereotyping muslims and actually care to find out how most of the muslim community of India lives

I would appreciate if you dont point me as being patronising. And dont assume that i dont go to the Muslim majority areas in Delhi. I also know that Muslims have not forsaken Indian Inc, but go to old Delhi, step away to the side lanes and then see the roaring drug trade and illiteracy in most of the people there.

90% of the battle will be won when Muslims are encouraged to goto regular schools rather than madrassas. When schools are proactively opened in Muslim dominated areas, among other things.
 
I would appreciate if you dont point me as being patronising. And dont assume that i dont go to the Muslim majority areas in Delhi. I also know that Muslims have not forsaken Indian Inc, but go to old Delhi, step away to the side lanes and then see the roaring drug trade and illiteracy in most of the people there.

90% of the battle will be won when Muslims are encouraged to goto regular schools rather than madrassas. When schools are proactively opened in Muslim dominated areas, among other things.

Ok fair enough, if not patronising, try not to generalise the situation.

I've lived in Old Delhi and know the bylanes as well as anyone. There is a drug trade but it is well hidden . It is obviously illegal and does not reflect It certainly is not a blatant roaring trade and Delhi police have done a good job in controlling illegal drugs. Muslims and Hindus of the area are 100% against it.

Also Madrassas are not as bad as it is made out in the mainstream media. In rural India, madrassas and schools are often blurred as there are no formal schools in the strict sense of the word. There are lack of classrooms, teachers and books. Apart from Quran teachings and Urdu, Madrassas generally teach maths, science and in UP/Bihar , Hindi. Just like a normal school. Teachers and students in madrassas can be Hindus or other non muslims. contrary to popular belief, terrorists or anti nationals do not study in madrassas or get inspiration from madrassa teachings.

I am not trying to plug for a madrassa , I would like a more formal school environment for all people but life in our rural areas means that a more rudimentary structure has evolved. Students get by whatever they have. If that means , learning under a tree, so be it. Most Hindus in villages do not have proper schools and madrassas are still few and far between. So far in general, Hindu learning under a tree or Muslims learning in a madrassa are Ok and have a got a education , however rudiment.
 
My point is that active effort needs to be taken by the governments to setup formal schools in Muslim majority areas specifically.

Not all madrassas are bad, but there are too many bad seeds in the pool to count the bad one's as exceptions. In UP, a lot of madrassas are run by these terrorist organizations and/or ones with Saudi/Pakistani funding through various legitimate outfits. These madrassas offer free meals, among other things just like regular schools to entice people to send their wards to these places.

The Muslim people of these areas have no other regular school to send their kids to and many a times, even if there is a school, they send them to the madrassas as many Muslim illiterate people feel that sending their kids to these madrassas will make them 'good muslims'.

And as such, i feel that the regular schools in these Muslim dominated areas should also try to convince the parents that they would teach the Quran as well-as an incentive of sorts.
 
And what Muslims have to do with brutal killing of Christians by terrorists of Bajrang Dal, VHP and RSS???

The members of VHP, RSS and Bajrang Dal i guess do not attend any madrassa, so being Hindus as per your claims i guess they must have attended some most modern schools right ?

So why the members of these Hindu organisations resort to communal riots every now and then??

What about these Hindu extremist groups???
 
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