Bahrain agrees to a military base for Britain's Royal Navy

[rmi5]

Mindless drones like him make you step down to their level occasionally and they are very good trolls if they can do that I would say. If you make 20-30 users in total and have 15 of them permanently banned that might be a message for you. This is what indoctrination can do to you and lack of critical thinking.

Such people are proving time and time again what a shithole the ME has sadly become and will remain for a long time to come.

We should indeed stay out as much as possible.

You are right @Mosamania .

You are completely right, my Hashemite friend.
Mosa is a smart person. I always enjoy reading his comments.

 

[al-Hasani]

You are completely right, my Hashemite friend.
Mosa is a smart person. I always enjoy reading his comments.

The most frightening thing is that PDF has been able to infect us with this virus. There is literarily no hope. In fact my hope is limited to the women and the small enlightened minority. Everything from the leadership, clerics and their sheep is rotten to the core. It's like a never-ending circle of supply and demand.

For each day that goes by I am a becoming a bigger believer in a French Revolution II being necessary for the ME.

The enlightened world (West) has a duty to help us remove those vandals instead of only looking at it in terms of interests. This will benefit the West ultimately despite it being tiring to intervene in the ME and clean up the mess. Of course the West is not innocent here but the blame-game should stop. We had plenty of time to show that we were wiser then this. Sadly PDF is a mini ME-shithole. And people living in the West with ties to the ME are part of this and I have been that too on PDF, sadly.

Or better a mini South Asia/ME shithole.

To see what this, one the cradle of civilization, has become is a sad, sad site to behold. I even failed rallying people around necessary changes. I mean there is no hope.

 

[IRAN 1802]

Wrong history there. Britain only became close to the Saudis in the 1970s. Before that we were allied to their enemies, the Hashemites. We nearly fought a war with them in the 1950s over the Buriami oasis in Oman.
Their main Western ally was always the US not Britain.

Wrong .

 

[ResurgentIran]

The most frightening thing is that PDF has been able to infect us with this virus. There is literarily no hope. In fact my hope is limited to the women and the small enlightened minority. Everything from the leadership, clerics and their sheep is rotten to the core. It's like a never-ending circle of supply and demand.

For each day that goes by I am a becoming a bigger believer in a French Revolution II being necessary for the ME.

The enlightened world (West) has a duty to help us remove those vandals instead of only looking at it in terms of interests. This will benefit the West ultimately despite it being tiring to intervene in the ME and clean up the mess. Of course the West is not innocent here but the blame-game should stop. We had plenty of time to show that we were wiser then this. Sadly PDF is a mini ME-shithole. And people living in the West with ties to the ME are part of this and I have been that too on PDF, sadly.

Or better a mini South Asia/ME shithole.

 

[Aepsilons]

Appreciate bro. We had many interesting talks and discussions about many matters. Not only politics if I recall. Anyway to be honest, as I have explained to many, then I might be a too complex person to put into boxes. Whenever I look at a certain angle I look at 100 other at the same time. I do have some core values that I do not negotiate about and you might guess what does are. Besides in my age you are constantly rethinking your positions, learning more etc. I do read quite a lot when I get the time. It helps. As do the cosmopolitan upbringing. It helps me see the issues from more than just the standard angles that your average ME person would or Westerner. I do admit that I might appear reactionary from time to time but that's due to the amount of trolls here.

Salam Alaikum Sadiq @al-Hasani , Yes, indeed, you were one of the first people to greet me in to PDF when I first joined. I remember that very well and have taken it to great heart. I was also amazed when you invited me to the Arabic Coffee Shop Thread to discuss and learn about Arab Language, Arab Culture, and of course the music ! In fact, I remember the first posters whom I had interacted with was my friend @Falcon29 "Hazzy" (even if he doesn't want me to call him his friend, I still consider him a friend and it hurts to see that he gets too personally affected when we disagree on some sensitive issues).

You are right that the issues regarding the Middle East are very complex and it requires people to have an understanding of the history of the region to understand the mindset, and understanding of the political and military history to understand why there are so many differences in politics and in religious stances. Thats why I believe it is important to never generalize the entire Middle East, but to appreciate each country and what each country brings, contributes to the entire group. As an Arab, I am sure that you are very sensitive about what is going on in Syria, in North Africa as well as in the region surrounding Iraq as these are your fellow brothers in Language, Culture and Faith. And you are right that we have to address new issues and news as they come, one of the benefits of being in our age group (20's) is that we can enjoy the ability to change our positions on new issues. And I respect you for your persistence on core values and core beliefs. That is what I admire about people whom i come across and interact with on an intellectual basis; the matter of one's Principle(s).

 

[al-Hasani]

Wrong .

Yes, they are as shit as your leaders and any other ME/South Asia leader. Congrats. I don't give a crap about them but don't insult a whole people (Arabs) or countries for that reason you mindless drone. Do not annoy me further with your nonsense. I tried being civilized with you over a PM even but you do not learn.

 

[Steve781]

Wrong .

How did you prove me wrong? We wanted the Hashemites, not the Saudis to rule the Arabian peninsula. The fact that they won has nothing to do with us.

 

[Aepsilons]

As a person of Arab and European descent, a person that comes from a very cosmopolitan background with family members based on 3 continents, and myself having lived on 3 continents while yet in my earliest 20's it would be very strange if it was any different.

I just have a weakness which is my low level of tolerance for enemies of KSA and the Arab nation. Outside of low IQ people that get on my nerve. This might be silly as many regard nationalism as a silly belief (some part of me probably agrees) but that's how it is.

Now just because of the above it does not mean that I agree with everything the West is doing (read the US as they are the party that pulls all the strings) which is obviously not the case. I am critical of both the West and certainly also the GCC, Arab world, ME and the Muslim world as a whole whenever I see fit.

And this is one of the reasons why I love to read your well worded input(s) in the Arab Defense Forum or here. Your postings are stern, yet understanding. I think it is awesome how you have shared cultures ; be it Arabic and Western European. You are a fusion of these two worlds.

 

[rmi5]

The most frightening thing is that PDF has been able to infect us with this virus. There is literarily no hope. In fact my hope is limited to the women and the small enlightened minority. Everything from the leadership, clerics and their sheep is rotten to the core. It's like a never-ending circle of supply and demand.

For each day that goes by I am a becoming a bigger believer in a French Revolution II being necessary for the ME.

The enlightened world (West) has a duty to help us remove those vandals instead of only looking at it in terms of interests. This will benefit the West ultimately despite it being tiring to intervene in the ME and clean up the mess. Of course the West is not innocent here but the blame-game should stop. We had plenty of time to show that we were wiser then this. Sadly PDF is a mini ME-shithole. And people living in the West with ties to the ME are part of this and I have been that too on PDF, sadly.

Or better a mini South Asia/ME shithole.

That's completely right. About west, they preferred dictators in 1950s, and 1960s, since they thought that they are more easy to deal with, and dealing with democracies in third world would be a headache. But, they did not consider that their long-term interests cannot be secured by these dictators, since dictators will make tons of mess, and become local people as anti-western. Now, West has understood this loop-hole, but they are now more concerned about their economy and internal affairs, unlike some decades ago.

 

[al-Hasani]

Salam Alaikum Sadiq @al-Hasani , Yes, indeed, you were one of the first people to greet me in to PDF when I first joined. I remember that very well and have taken it to great heart. I was also amazed when you invited me to the Arabic Coffee Shop Thread to discuss and learn about Arab Language, Arab Culture, and of course the music ! In fact, I remember the first posters whom I had interacted with was my friend @Falcon29 "Hazzy" (even if he doesn't want me to call him his friend, I still consider him a friend and it hurts to see that he gets too personally affected when we disagree on some sensitive issues).

You are right that the issues regarding the Middle East are very complex and it requires people to have an understanding of the history of the region to understand the mindset, and understanding of the political and military history to understand why there are so many differences in politics and in religious stances. Thats why I believe it is important to never generalize the entire Middle East, but to appreciate each country and what each country brings, contributes to the entire group. As an Arab, I am sure that you are very sensitive about what is going on in Syria, in North Africa as well as in the region surrounding Iraq as these are your fellow brothers in Language, Culture and Faith. And you are right that we have to address new issues and news as they come, one of the benefits of being in our age group (20's) is that we can enjoy the ability to change our positions on new issues. And I respect you for your persistence on core values and core beliefs. That is what I admire about people whom i come across and interact with on an intellectual basis; the matter of one's Principle(s).

I am glad that I do not appear as a asshole always. I do appreciate your politeness and knowledge about the affairs of the world. You are a very necessary element of PDF that is able to keep his cool while most of us are going apeshit. My little advice to you is to spent your time on the real world where your types of humans can make a difference.

The ME is so complex that even us natives do not know what to do anymore. It's like a never-ending labyrinth. I once thought that regime changes would be enough and that people had realized by now what is going on and has been going on by like anywhere in the world you have thousands of opinions, directions, goals etc. The problem in the ME and non-West by large is that people cannot accept differences. It's either my highway or your highway. I can go out right now (although it is raining) take a cab to the Parliament here in Copenhagen and start going apeshit against the government. Nothing would happen with me. People would not try to hurt me but would just call an idiot an idiot and move on in their life's. I am not going to bother you with paragraph long posts. I say that now but in one weeks time the show will go on again…lol.

The good thing is that we learn constantly here in life (at least we should) and this way we often manage to change our opinions or at least evaluate them. Blind following is a bad thing. It's part of the problem of the ME.

That's completely right. About west, they preferred dictators in 1950s, and 1960s, since they thought that they are more easy to deal with, and dealing with democracies in third world would be a headache. But, they did not consider that their long-term interests cannot be secured by these dictators, since dictators will make tons of mess, and become local people as anti-western. Now, West has understood this loop-hole, but they are now more concerned about their economy and internal affairs, unlike some decades ago.

It's all about interests my friend. The West are not stupid. That's why they were able to practically control the entire world a few centuries ago and still do to this day on many fronts. Everything from technology, science, entertainment industry, sports, even religion to a great deal (look no further than the Catholic Church), economy, banks, philosophies etc.

I tell you, if I was a ruler or person of importance in Western politics I would be very happy about much of the current state in the non-Western world. Imagine the potential of those regions of the world if they had a similar system to the West. The West might have lost their monopoly if that was the case. In fact I am pretty sure as just the resources and populations are in favor of the non-Western world and the non-Western world was already ahead of the West for millenniums.

I do not believe in racial etc. supremacy nonsense but I do believe in superior approaches to life and systems of governance etc. The ME has the potential, I never doubted it, but it is getting destroyed by those people I talk about and systems. So much that people have become hopeless and do not take any initiatives anymore or conduct any thinking. They just accept status quo and move on.

 

[Aepsilons]

That's completely right. About west, they preferred dictators in 1950s, and 1960s, since they thought that they are more easy to deal with, and dealing with democracies in third world would be a headache. But, they did not consider that their long-term interests cannot be secured by these dictators, since dictators will make tons of mess, and become local people as anti-western. Now, West has understood this loop-hole, but they are now more concerned about their economy and internal affairs, unlike some decades ago.

Well said @rmi5 . In fact, it was not just the West, but even the East. During the 1950s and 1960s, the leaders of East Asian nations were practically dictatorships. South Korean under President Park Chung Hee and under his authoritarian rule, South Korea developed from a war-ravaged nation into an industrialized and manufacturing-based economy. The same seen in Taiwan, in Singapore as it was President Lee Kuan Yew's absolutist rule projected Singapore into an economic power in Southeast Asia. Even the Philippines' was under Ferdinand Marcos, also another dictator. The point of the matter is that the West and the East supported dictatorial regimes in the thought that under these said regimes, the nation would evolve so that the societal realities would mature enough to observe a seamless transition into a democratic system. This is what happened in Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Philippines, South Korea.

The reasons for the failure in the Middle East in regards to progression is that political scientists did not consider the influence of culture and how culture influences societal developments and how these developments would foster an environment that would be conducive for democracy. Predictions were wrong, but that is the very core of humanity, the prone to be wrong in calculations.

Alexander Pope said it best when he said, "To err is human, to forgive is divine."

 

[mike2000]

@mike2000

I do not like your tone at all when you are speaking with or about countries, people etc. not from Western Europe or the US. Sometimes you come off as a jerk and I expect more from a person that is probably at least in his 30's and that claims to be married to a Cameroonian women. You should stop that.

Also you should stop talking about this news like it only benefits your country (UK) and that you can do whatever you feel like. If Bahrain or the GCC did not see benefits in this deal then there would be no deal.

Yes, I am a Muslim and no I do not care about whether someone is a Sunni, Shia or whatever. As I have told repeatedly then I have Muslim, Christian (Catholic) and Atheist family members.

My problem with Iran is limited to Farsis and their government which is bound in those two groups hatred for any Arab or Semitic. Yet other than that I got no problem with Persians and I know several in real life and there are no problems other than friendly banter.

You are obviously unfamiliar with the historical dimensions of the ME which is otherwise the cradle of civilization.

Regarding the governemnt of KSA. I am not their biggest fan and disagree with much that they are doing and have done (first of all) but you have obviously no clue about the internal dynamics of KSA or the immediate region. KSA's regime is very much a trusted regime for the West and their partners and a crucial ally for those regimes.

Your hatred for anything Arab and Muslim is clouding your judgement.

Also what's your problem with Bahrain (a fellow GCC member state and neighbor and ally of KSA) asking KSA for help in order to crush unnecesary unrest? You don't have a problem running around the US when they are deciding to invade country x or y or impose sanctions on country x or y.

Now you will notice that parts of my reply contain a similar tone like the ones that you have become quite famous for whenever you discuss ME affairs. I just want to give you a slight taste of your own manners.

If you stopped this then I am sure that we could have interesting discussions instead.

A little side comment buddy. You are possibly the only person on PDF that might write longer posts than me on average. I just wanted to salute you for this very reason.

Well though i agree with some of your points bro, i disagree with others. I didnt say it benefits just the U.K, you obviously didn't read my posts well my good friend Hasani. I said that it is indeed good for our interests/influence in the region, and that if the Bahrain leadership has agreed to our military presence in their country, then it must also be because they have come to a conclusion that it obviously serves their own interests as well, not just ours.
Secondly, i dont understand what you mean by 'the way i talk about other peoples from non western countries'. You are the first person to say that on here. Ususally most members on here will agree with me that its instead the opposite, i just tend to say things the way they are, and im even the one who have been calling others to stop mocking other developing/porr countries effort/strive for self sufficiency/development/improvement in living standards etc. So i really dont understand what you mean by this statement. You say im anti muslim/dont like muslims?That couldnt be more further from the truth, the only people i resent/hate(like many members on here, muslim included) are muslim extremists/jihadists/radical preachers and their militants/terrorists groups who have give a bad name to islam and justify their evil deeds/atrocities on islam. You obviously didnt get my point bros.

Thirdly, your claim of me not wanting/being against KSA and other gulf states helping Bahrain to crush their 'unrest' is far fetched my man. If you are for Saudi Arabia helping crush the 'unrest' in Bahrain, then you should also be supporting Assadd helping crush the 'unrest' in Syria as well. You cant be in favou/justify one while being vehemently against the other bros. Im against both, since they are both dictatorships(Bahrain monarchy even worse), but then again im not sure they should both be toppled since the alternative to them might be even worse as its been proved by the case in Syria.Moreover, Saudi Arabia dictatorship/monarchy should be the last to lecture others about freedom/democracy as it has done in Syria and imposing order in Bahrain bro. Its aa huge joke for them to be doing that, its not even funny anymore, since theSaudi regime(which you yourself arent a fan of) is one of the most dictatorial in the region in the region to be honest. However, there again, im not really clamouring for their down fall, since i dont think the alternative to them will be any better.lol

Also, you havent obviously followed my comments on here, im the first to criticize U.S /U.K foreign policy in the region when they are indeed wrong, you yourself can ask other members on here who have been following my posts and they can attest to that. So its not like i justify any U.S/western actions in the region.

Finally thanks for admiring my longgg posts(you also write long ones, though i beat you to it.lol), when i start its hard for me to stop Anyway its good exchanging point of views with you respectfully my friend. Banzai.

 

[rmi5]

It's all about interests my friend. The West are not stupid. That's why they were able to practically control the entire world a few centuries ago and still do to this day on many fronts. Everything from technology, science, entertainment industry, sports, even religion to a great deal (look no further than the Catholic Church), economy, banks, philosophies etc.

I tell you, if I was a ruler or person of importance in world politics I would be very happy about much of the situation in the world that concerns the non-West. Imagine the potential of those regions of the world if they had a similar system to the West. The West might had lost their monopoly. I do not believe in racial etc. supremacy nonsense but I do believe in superior approaches to life and systems of governance etc.

That's 100.00% right, bro. West looks into the world from the interests point of view. Every "Rational" player does the same and it is how the world works. ME people, need to learn how the west works more than anything else, including buying western products. Why big players, rulers, should not be happy about the third world? the oil is flowing smoothly to its destinations, cheap labors, aka new slaves, are working in factories with low wages, ... and the world is almost calm, at least there is no major classic war like world wars, going on. ME is capable of progress. We, almost every single ethnicity of the region, has proved so in her past.

 

[ResurgentIran]

I am not going to bother you with paragraph long posts. I say that now but in one weeks time the show will go on again…lol.

PDF will not be the same without a hefty dosage of al-Hasani.

 

[jamahir]

I do not believe in racial etc. supremacy