Babri Masjid case: Set 'Ram Lalla' free, says oldest litigant Hashim Ansari

[jha]

Hmm.. Something is happening for sure.

 

[wolfpack]

OK..What is the current situation in the state??..Read about the power shortage ,water crisis and many industries are planning to shift their base to Andra??..And the current government have no vision or plan to overcome this crisis??..

Yep you guessed it right,this fool CM has no idea how to run a state,we call him Tughlak (MAD) CM.
He changed metro route for over a year and L&t got pissed off and tried to leave then center intervened and now Metro is late by 1 year due to him changing routes often.
I will post the rest later.All companies are moving to Andhra that i can tell you.

 

[The_Showstopper]

But the telegana movement had already been in and around Hyderabad since 1970...I have heard many reasons for the split like Telegana peoples were neglected and discriminated in government jobs,fund allocations etc,Telegus from andra side are stealing their jobs in Hyderabad,Government funds were diverted into Andra region, politicans/ministers are predominantly from andra region,They used to mock telegana telegu slang...Any truth in it??

What you heard is correct... Ask any Telangana guy and you will get to hear what you mentioned over here. Some posters over here might claim otherwise as KCR is not in their good books. Once KCR and TRS party joins NDA, he would automatically qualify as a very honest and efficient leader, right now he is sickular...

Kashi’s Muslim women back Ansari’s ‘free Ram Lalla’ desire

LOL Two groups who have openly campaigned for Modi and who have political aspiration make these kind of statements, And we have Sanghis celebrating all over the place...

 

[itachiii]

But demolishing someones worshiping place for building your own makes us no better than those Moguls who at first did the same to build there mosques.

there is a huge difference between razing dwn a religious site to humilate a community , and takng back what is actually urs sir....

 

[Jaanbaz]

Pakistan is already exploiting itself. Hence, it can't.j/k

You guys have BJP for that.

 

[Fireurimagination]

LOL Two groups who have openly campaigned for Modi and who have political aspiration make these kind of statements, And we have Sanghis celebrating all over the place...

I would say a good beginning, today two politically inclined groups tomorrow the entire ummah

 

[dray]

Which is exactly why I don't want all mosques demolished. I want the three holiest of our pilgrimages returned to us. As a symbolic demand I believe it is fair. Like buildings in Mecca and Medina or Rome and Vatican, I wish these three Hindu sites return to the custodianship of Dharmics. Now two actually.

Secondly, I don't want a destruction of the buildings anyway. Destroying a building takes 1 day at most. We are capable of doing so. But we don't want to. Not because we are afraid of riots, (we Indians riot for no reason) but simply because the acceptance should ideally come from the Muslim community today, like this old man here. Like we have Reverse discrimination today as a prayaschit for crimes against lower castes, it is hoped that Muslim individuals owning the present property etc hand them back to us. People kill each other only after things are politicized. Otherwise not.

As for the animosity - I am politically incorrect, so I will accept this - there is a problem. But this problem exists only with one community or rather a sub community of this community. I admit not all, but enough to cause concern. And unfortunately, not only us Hindus but pretty much every other community has been affected by the radicalization of this particular sub community. Sorry if I sound like the Indian media but you get my point.

Even then, I hope there is no killing and the 2 sites are returned. The existence of Aurangzeb Mosque ON the Garva in Mathura and Gyanpapi ON the Vidhyanath in Kashi is a stark reminder of the humiliation that continues to this date. In return we don't wish to destroy it today either. Only allow Hindu worship of the sites.

Actually only since this is a new age and we should move forward, are we content to reclaim only 2 Hindu sites. We are not claiming the Qutb Complex or other Mosques in the vicinity recorded to be built from destroyed temples to be returned. Just these 3 sites in all. Following which we can call for a National Reconciliation (as mentioned by Savarkar) and then unite to build a better future together having buried the hatchet for good.

What are the three temples, Ram Janmabhumi, Kashi Bishwanath, and? And it's Gyanvapi.

 

[Saheli]

And how do you think govt will be able to handle the similar demands at regional levels, where a community comes up as says they belive in XYZ goddess and for them she comes first then trimurti, and hence they should also be allowed to build the temple in place of mosque or some other religious place.

Whats lost in history should be forgotten, if you have so much of a desire to remember the history build something in same region. Like Dwarka was lost and now what stands on ground is rebuilt Dwarka.

If the temple existed in structure and was occupied forcefully and no structural changes where done to accommodate other religious beliefs then taking over those structures could make some sense. But demolishing someones worshiping place for building your own makes us no better than those Moguls who at first did the same to build there mosques.

So correction of a purported crime is also a crime nowadays? So Indian courts hanging a murderer for murder is also a murder?

Also you seem to be very partial to hospitals. Why do you not convert your house into a hospital. Why do you need to live in a house when you can live under a tree too or under a bridge. Why do we need hotels, bars, race tracks, clubs, golf courses? Are these not wasteful expenditure. How many hospitals we could build if these were not there. Do you agree? Or does your longing for hospitals only surface when temples are being talked about?

Also yes god is there in all human beings, so you should ask the muslims to give up their mosques. Why do they need mosques? Can they not pray at homes? Can they not see god is there in all human beings?

Also why should we fight about man made religions since we are all the same. Do give a clarion call to all Hindus to convert to Islam so that there is never any distinction left and we can all live in amity and brotherhood.

What are the three temples, Ram Janmabhumi, Kashi Bishwanath, and? And it's Gyanvapi.

Mathura.

 

[abjktu]

I will post the rest later.All companies are moving to Andhra that i can tell you.

Very same situation of Kerala....Looks like he is worser than communist morons of Kerala...They destroyed all the industries of Kerala by their idiotic polices(most of them were either closed permanently or shifted to Tamilnadu) and by unnecessary strikes and lockouts...The only prevailing one is Tourism/Ayurvedic medical tourism,and software/IT(to some extent)...

What you heard is correct... Ask any Telangana guy and you will get to hear what you mentioned over here. Some posters over here might claim otherwise as KCR is not in their good books. Once KCR and TRS party joins NDA, he would automatically qualify as a very honest and efficient leader, right now he is sickular...

yes,I know..But MIM was against the bifurcation of Andra??...

 

[Viny]

So correction of a purported crime is also a crime nowadays? So Indian courts hanging a murderer for murder is also a murder?

Also you seem to be very partial to hospitals. Why do you not convert your house into a hospital. Why do you need to live in a house when you can live under a tree too or under a bridge. Why do we need hotels, bars, race tracks, clubs, golf courses? Are these not wasteful expenditure. How many hospitals we could build if these were not there. Do you agree? Or does your longing for hospitals only surface when temples are being talked about?

Also yes god is there in all human beings, so you should ask the muslims to give up their mosques. Why do they need mosques? Can they not pray at homes? Can they not see god is there in all human beings?

Also why should we fight about man made religions since we are all the same. Do give a clarion call to all Hindus to convert to Islam so that there is never any distinction left and we can all live in amity and brotherhood.


Mathura.

Does religion matters if you believe in God. Does Jesus, Allah or Trimurti differ as a GOD.
Relation with GOD is one to one, its between you and your GOD.
Temples, mosques etc and other religious practices are marking on ones beliefs on geographical limits.

If you look into essence of Sanatan dharm its about human being and his karmas and not about just Gods.

there is a huge difference between razing dwn a religious site to humilate a community , and takng back what is actually urs sir....

Was babri masjid experince a taking back or razing down?
Is it current generations mistake that some mogul built a mosque over temple?
Why do you want to hurt the religious feelings and beliefs of current generation.
Will you be happy if tomorrow some other religious people rise up and then take over your temples claiming that you razed down there religious site.

 

[Saheli]

Does religion matters if you believe in God. Does Jesus, Allah or Trimurti differ as a GOD.
Relation with GOD is one to one, its between you and your GOD.
Temples, mosques etc and other religious practices are marking on ones beliefs on geographical limits.

If you look into essence of Sanatan dharm its about human being and his karmas and not about just Gods.

Yes it matters because our idea of Gods are not the same. Yes Jesus, Allah, or Trimurthi differ as GOD.

No relation with GOD is not one to one. It is both one to one and one to many and many to many and many to one.

Temples, mosques,etc and other religious practices may be markers of beliefs on geographical limits, but it is the way of the world and if you have to survive in the way of the world, better learn to be worldly.

The essence of Sanatan Dharma is about life which includes karma which includes fighting for justice and righteousness and not just cowardly philosophizing.

Finally, learn the difference between what people mean when they say GOD and then decide if they are talking about the same GOD.

First, monotheism is the belief in a single Divine Person. But this is only a partial description of the cult. Some think that it is the oneness alone that matters. But it is not so.

For instance, one who thinks of the Divine as an impersonal Essence is not a monotheist in the technical sense of the term. Those who quote the famous Rigvedic verse that says that "The One Being the sages call by many names” do not sufficiently realize that here the One Being (Eka sad) is in the neuter, standing for the Divine Existence and not for a Divine Individual, and hence is not the same as contemplated by the well-known creeds that describe themselves as monotheistic. To the monotheistic creeds God is a Person and not a metaphysical Essence.


Secondly, as a Person the monotheistic Divinity can not be conceived in any way one likes. For example, one who accepts a Single Divinity as Mother or Maiden is not a monotheist in the practical sense of the term. To the monotheist the Divinity is not only a Single Person but also a Masculine Person. Thus the distinction between polytheism and monotheism is not one of number alone but of gender also.


Thirdly, a monotheistic God cannot be any kind of male Person: He cannot, for example, be a child or a boy. He can only be a Father. One would not be a monotheist if one were to think of the Divine as Brother or any other relation. In other words, the monotheistic God is not only a Person and a male Person, but He stands in a single relationship to man-that of Father.


Fourthly, even as Father He must be believed to be a very elderly Person; not only a Father but a Patriarch.


Fifthly, as a Person the monotheistic God cannot exist anywhere; He has His special abode –heaven; He is a Father who is in heaven. He may go wherever He likes, but heaven is His place of residence. Perhaps the most essential difference between monotheism and polytheism lies here: that monotheism contemplates the Divine in heaven and 'polytheism contemplates the Divine in the universe.


This makes a difference in the entire conception of life and religion. To the monotheist heaven represents a superior plane of existence and God a superior order of reality. To that order belong angels and archangels, cherubim and seraphim, who also live on that plane. According to this cult while heaven is sacred, the universe is profane; while God and the angels who live in heaven are holy, man who lives on the earth is sinful; while God is great, man is small.


Polytheism finds the Divine in the universe and hence there is but a thin dividing line between the sacred and the profane, the human and the Divine, the mortal and the immortal. In fact polytheism contemplates heaven on earth and God in nature and among men. Hence while polytheism is attached to the earth and thinks in terms of life and the joy of living, monotheism is attached to a hereafter and lives for heaven, looking down upon earthly things.

This trait of polytheism has been called Paganism.


Sixthly, monotheism is not a simple belief in a God in heaven who is a Father. Its God, a Patriarch, is a Ruler. He is the King of Heaven. And from heaven He also rules over the universe as its sole Monarch. Thus monotheism is monarchical theism.


Hence the ideology of monotheism is the ideology of monarchy. Heaven is the royal abode. The King is seated in His throne. He has his servants and emissaries. He appoints His vicegerents. He takes the best of His subjects to His heavenly court. The worst of them are flung into the dark prison-house, Hell.


As King, He claims unstinted allegiance and homage. The subjects must offer their respects often enough and regularly enough to satisfy His royal position. They must bow and bend before Him and thus honor and exalt Him. They must stand in dread of Him.


And as the only King He is jealous of usurpers and rivals.

He alone should receive the homage and no other. To offer homage to any but the God of Heaven is to be a traitor to the Kingdom of God.

No wonder that ideal subjects of the Kingdom have thought that nothing can please the King better than the punishment of those who try to offer their honor and homage to persons or objects other than the God of Heaven.


Seventhly, the monotheistic God has His perpetual Adversary or Enemy - Satan, who is a sort of Anti-God. Hence there is rivalry between God and Satan for the possession of the universe. Men are in constant risk of going over to God's Enemy and God's wrath is directed against them when they are suspected of having done so.


Eighthly, as monotheism centers in a Monarch, who is an absolute Ruler, the chief thing for His subjects is to know His will. The Divine Will is the only guide for man in his conduct on the earth. How to know the will of God? He sends His messengers (Prophets) on earth to make His will known to mankind. Those men are virtuous who bow to His will and make it prevail on earth as in heaven. Those are sinners who disobey or defy His will or-it comes to that--the prophet who conveys the will to mankind.


Religion, here, is the exercise by man of his own will to force himself to obey the Will of God.


The difficulty with monotheism is that its prophets are not universally accepted. As a result there has been acute rivalry between monotheistic creeds, each claiming an exclusive relation with the Ultimate Being.

Was babri masjid experince a taking back or razing down?
Is it current generations mistake that some mogul built a mosque over temple?
Why do you want to hurt the religious feelings and beliefs of current generation.
Will you be happy if tomorrow some other religious people rise up and then take over your temples claiming that you razed down there religious site.

Babri Masjid was a razing down after discussion for taking back proved futile. Why does the current generation claim the fruits of the mogul when they do not want to take the blame? If they have nothing to do with the Moghul, then they have nothing to do with that mosque either. That place was Hindus to being with and Hindus reclaimed it.

Why do you want Hindus to never receive justice. Do you think they are lesser humans than Muslims? Do you think they should defer all their human desires to the supreme desires of the superior race of Muslims?

Do find us people who claim we have wrongly taken over what originally belonged to them. We will make an attempt to make amends and give back what rightfully belongs to them.

 

[wolfpack]

Very same situation of Kerala....Looks like he is worser than communist morons of Kerala...They destroyed all the industries of Kerala by their idiotic polices(most of them were either closed permanently or shifted to Tamilnadu) and by unnecessary strikes and lockouts...The only prevailing one is Tourism/Ayurvedic medical tourism,and software/IT(to some extent)...


yes,I know..But MIM was against the bifurcation of Andra??...

Yes unfortunately we have the same situation here, he wants to open arrack/toddy shops (kallu shops) here instead of Industries.
All retrograde steps,defeats all the development work done in the past 20 years.

MIM has no angle in it, they are neither pro or anti-Telangana, they are only concerned about muslims as long as muslims get funds, quotas,reservations , freebies and let their part of city be ruled without rules they will side with anybodywho supports such nonsense.That is why they love TRS much now.
Nor did they take part in TG agitation nor were they ever part of it and thus we consider them non-entities in state politics, apart from old city and some select places in TG where the muslim population is a bit more to make electoral impact they wont win anywhere.

 

[itachiii]

Was babri masjid experince a taking back or razing down?

sir , the babri masjid incident was to take back a holy place wch is rightfully ours..if it meant to be razng dwn of the mosque let it be ,cause even the masjid was built on the site only after razing dwn the temple...

Is it current generations mistake that some mogul built a mosque over temple?

and no one here is accusing the present generation (whos ancestors were merely converts) of what babr's military general did..unlike hindus the site of masjid isn't a holy place of muslims.. they werent even using the site for their prayers..

Why do you want to hurt the religious feelings and beliefs of current generation.

and when the que of religious sentiments comes into place don't you think that muslims should be ashamed to have a mosque built upon a hindu holy site after razing the temple down ?? more over , what abt the religious sentiments of hindus.. ??

Will you be happy if tomorrow some other religious people rise up and then take over your temples claiming that you razed down there religious site.

when did the last tym u saw hindus destroying a religious site of others jst beacuse it is a religious sight of other communities to build there own temples ?? and abt taking over our temples, it is already happening in our neighbouring countries, though not on the pretext of sayng that we built them on there religious sites.. rather jst beacuse they happen to be a kaffir ( a hindu ) place of worship..

.

 

[Viny]

Yes it matters because our idea of Gods are not the same. Yes Jesus, Allah, or Trimurthi differ as GOD.

No relation with GOD is not one to one. It is both one to one and one to many and many to many and many to one.

Temples, mosques,etc and other religious practices may be markers of beliefs on geographical limits, but it is the way of the world and if you have to survive in the way of the world, better learn to be worldly.

The essence of Sanatan Dharma is about life which includes karma which includes fighting for justice and righteousness and not just cowardly philosophizing.

Finally, learn the difference between what people mean when they say GOD and then decide if they are talking about the same GOD.

First, monotheism is the belief in a single Divine Person. But this is only a partial description of the cult. Some think that it is the oneness alone that matters. But it is not so.

For instance, one who thinks of the Divine as an impersonal Essence is not a monotheist in the technical sense of the term. Those who quote the famous Rigvedic verse that says that "The One Being the sages call by many names” do not sufficiently realize that here the One Being (Eka sad) is in the neuter, standing for the Divine Existence and not for a Divine Individual, and hence is not the same as contemplated by the well-known creeds that describe themselves as monotheistic. To the monotheistic creeds God is a Person and not a metaphysical Essence.


Secondly, as a Person the monotheistic Divinity can not be conceived in any way one likes. For example, one who accepts a Single Divinity as Mother or Maiden is not a monotheist in the practical sense of the term. To the monotheist the Divinity is not only a Single Person but also a Masculine Person. Thus the distinction between polytheism and monotheism is not one of number alone but of gender also.


Thirdly, a monotheistic God cannot be any kind of male Person: He cannot, for example, be a child or a boy. He can only be a Father. One would not be a monotheist if one were to think of the Divine as Brother or any other relation. In other words, the monotheistic God is not only a Person and a male Person, but He stands in a single relationship to man-that of Father.


Fourthly, even as Father He must be believed to be a very elderly Person; not only a Father but a Patriarch.


Fifthly, as a Person the monotheistic God cannot exist anywhere; He has His special abode –heaven; He is a Father who is in heaven. He may go wherever He likes, but heaven is His place of residence. Perhaps the most essential difference between monotheism and polytheism lies here: that monotheism contemplates the Divine in heaven and 'polytheism contemplates the Divine in the universe.


This makes a difference in the entire conception of life and religion. To the monotheist heaven represents a superior plane of existence and God a superior order of reality. To that order belong angels and archangels, cherubim and seraphim, who also live on that plane. According to this cult while heaven is sacred, the universe is profane; while God and the angels who live in heaven are holy, man who lives on the earth is sinful; while God is great, man is small.


Polytheism finds the Divine in the universe and hence there is but a thin dividing line between the sacred and the profane, the human and the Divine, the mortal and the immortal. In fact polytheism contemplates heaven on earth and God in nature and among men. Hence while polytheism is attached to the earth and thinks in terms of life and the joy of living, monotheism is attached to a hereafter and lives for heaven, looking down upon earthly things.

This trait of polytheism has been called Paganism.


Sixthly, monotheism is not a simple belief in a God in heaven who is a Father. Its God, a Patriarch, is a Ruler. He is the King of Heaven. And from heaven He also rules over the universe as its sole Monarch. Thus monotheism is monarchical theism.


Hence the ideology of monotheism is the ideology of monarchy. Heaven is the royal abode. The King is seated in His throne. He has his servants and emissaries. He appoints His vicegerents. He takes the best of His subjects to His heavenly court. The worst of them are flung into the dark prison-house, Hell.


As King, He claims unstinted allegiance and homage. The subjects must offer their respects often enough and regularly enough to satisfy His royal position. They must bow and bend before Him and thus honor and exalt Him. They must stand in dread of Him.


And as the only King He is jealous of usurpers and rivals.

He alone should receive the homage and no other. To offer homage to any but the God of Heaven is to be a traitor to the Kingdom of God.

No wonder that ideal subjects of the Kingdom have thought that nothing can please the King better than the punishment of those who try to offer their honor and homage to persons or objects other than the God of Heaven.


Seventhly, the monotheistic God has His perpetual Adversary or Enemy - Satan, who is a sort of Anti-God. Hence there is rivalry between God and Satan for the possession of the universe. Men are in constant risk of going over to God's Enemy and God's wrath is directed against them when they are suspected of having done so.


Eighthly, as monotheism centers in a Monarch, who is an absolute Ruler, the chief thing for His subjects is to know His will. The Divine Will is the only guide for man in his conduct on the earth. How to know the will of God? He sends His messengers (Prophets) on earth to make His will known to mankind. Those men are virtuous who bow to His will and make it prevail on earth as in heaven. Those are sinners who disobey or defy His will or-it comes to that--the prophet who conveys the will to mankind.


Religion, here, is the exercise by man of his own will to force himself to obey the Will of God.


The difficulty with monotheism is that its prophets are not universally accepted. As a result there has been acute rivalry between monotheistic creeds, each claiming an exclusive relation with the Ultimate Being.



Babri Masjid was a razing down after discussion for taking back proved futile. Why does the current generation claim the fruits of the mogul when they do not want to take the blame? If they have nothing to do with the Moghul, then they have nothing to do with that mosque either. That place was Hindus to being with and Hindus reclaimed it.

Why do you want Hindus to never receive justice. Do you think they are lesser humans than Muslims? Do you think they should defer all their human desires to the supreme desires of the superior race of Muslims?

Do find us people who claim we have wrongly taken over what originally belonged to them. We will make an attempt to make amends and give back what rightfully belongs to them.

You are thinking to much about God and religion.
God is GOD, it doenst matter if he is Jesus or Allah or Trimurti.
Its the practices that so called God Men has built around him makes the differences.

Mosque doesnt belong to Mogul or some XYZ person. Its place of worship where common man goes to perform his religious activities.

As if its must for Hindus and they will only attain niravana if they get temple at XYZ place. If rising by stepping on someone else head is the definition of rise, then for sure the fall will be much bad. Build your on podium to rise above.

This observance of that it belonged to us in past then it should be given to us now is wrong approach.
Tomorrow you will say India was from Afgan to SE Asia, so give us back all those land. Or Moon is our God and we dont want you to explore Moon or some XYZ planet ... Isnt it making of radicalized society or getting Hindu version of Talibanization ?

 

[utraash]

Which is exactly why I don't want all mosques demolished. I want the three holiest of our pilgrimages returned to us. As a symbolic demand I believe it is fair. Like buildings in Mecca and Medina or Rome and Vatican, I wish these three Hindu sites return to the custodianship of Dharmics. Now two actually.

Secondly, I don't want a destruction of the buildings anyway. Destroying a building takes 1 day at most. We are capable of doing so. But we don't want to. Not because we are afraid of riots, (we Indians riot for no reason) but simply because the acceptance should ideally come from the Muslim community today, like this old man here. Like we have Reverse discrimination today as a prayaschit for crimes against lower castes, it is hoped that Muslim individuals owning the present property etc hand them back to us. People kill each other only after things are politicized. Otherwise not.

As for the animosity - I am politically incorrect, so I will accept this - there is a problem. But this problem exists only with one community or rather a sub community of this community. I admit not all, but enough to cause concern. And unfortunately, not only us Hindus but pretty much every other community has been affected by the radicalization of this particular sub community. Sorry if I sound like the Indian media but you get my point.

Even then, I hope there is no killing and the 2 sites are returned. The existence of Aurangzeb Mosque ON the Garva in Mathura and Gyanpapi ON the Vidhyanath in Kashi is a stark reminder of the humiliation that continues to this date. In return we don't wish to destroy it today either. Only allow Hindu worship of the sites.

Actually only since this is a new age and we should move forward, are we content to reclaim only 2 Hindu sites. We are not claiming the Qutb Complex or other Mosques in the vicinity recorded to be built from destroyed temples to be returned. Just these 3 sites in all. Following which we can call for a National Reconciliation (as mentioned by Savarkar) and then unite to build a better future together having buried the hatchet for good.

Though I thanked your post yet I wish all this should be done with zero violence n in perfect harmony....