Azm-E-Nau 4 Military Exercise: News and Discussions

[SQ8]

Several HD pics

巴基斯坦举行大规模军事演习-中新网 
Cobras participated in exercises are the one which recently acquired from Jordan

Do you see the CFTs? Should put the remaining "Why no CFT" voices to rest.

And looks like the someone in the Chinese observer group brought a cam along and went on social media. Also, the pictures continue to an Indian exercise ..

 

[Bratva]

An observation. This pic is of Indian tank in some military exercise conducted last month or in any recent past exercises. Their tanks always have a full combat armour

I wonder why all Pakistani tanks in this and previous exercises take part without ERA or any other armour? 

Do you see the CFTs? Should put the remaining "Why no CFT" voices to rest.

And looks like the someone in the Chinese observer group brought a cam along and went on social media. Also, the pictures continue to an Indian exercise ..

Participation of F-16 in CAS mode, does this indicate Net centric warfare concepts being validated and the data link developed by armed forces being tested?

 

[SQ8]

Participation of F-16 in CAS mode, does this indicate Net centric warfare concepts being validated and the data link developed by armed forces being tested?

Quite possibly, the new Radio's were all compatible with the Have Quick systems on the F-16 and the R&S that are in the JF-17,mirages and F-7PG.

 

[Armstrong]

Quite possibly, the new Radio's were all compatible with the Have Quick systems on the F-16 and the R&S that are in the JF-17,mirages and F-7PG.

Oh bhai tuuu kissss kaaam ka haiii - Kuch tou bataaa what did we achieve with these exercises ?

 

[SQ8]

Oh bhai tuuu kissss kaaam ka haiii - Kuch tou bataaa what did we achieve with these exercises ?

Mera koi ab wasta nei iss sab se. Now ask me how the conditions were at J.P Morgan when the news of their loss hit...or how to enact change within a rigid organizational structure. Perhaps you can ask about what is an "accurate" description of these exercises in about a month or so when I visit home.

Btw, who is the person nodding his head at 6:28?

 

[Armstrong]

Mera koi ab wasta nei iss sab se. Now ask me how the conditions were at J.P Morgan when the news of their loss hit...or how to enact change within a rigid organizational structure. Perhaps you can ask about what is an "accurate" description of these exercises in about a month or so when I visit home.

Bhai JP Morgan seiii eik Telecom/Electrical/Electronics Engineer ka taluqqq - Kahiiin MBA wagheraa kar kehhh Finance kiii tarafff tou nahin shift maaar liii ?

Btw, who is the person nodding his head at 6:28?

I don't know !

 

[SQ8]

Bhai JP Morgan seiii eik Telecom/Electrical/Electronics Engineer ka taluqqq - Kahiiin MBA wagheraa kar kehhh Finance kiii tarafff tou nahin shift maaar liii ?

Yup... waved goodbye to embedded systems a long time ago now. And not towards finance but organizational strategy.

 

[Armstrong]

Yup... waved goodbye to embedded systems a long time ago now. And not towards finance but organizational strategy.

What Ansoff Matrix, Kaplan-Norton Balance Scorecard, Porter's Generic Model etc. ?

Not bad !

 

[SQ8]

What Ansoff Matrix, Kaplan-Norton Balance Scorecard, Porter's Generic Model etc. ?

Not bad !

The BSC, Resources-capabilities view, Porters forces.. are just tools.. I am talking change management. Balancing human emotions and needs on an organization scale to make people follow a transformation willingly.

 

[Armstrong]

The BSC, Resources-capabilities view, Porters forces.. are just tools.. I am talking change management. Balancing human emotions and needs on an organization scale to make people follow a transformation willingly.

What the heck is BSC ?

BSG - Boston Consulting Group Matrix tou sunaaa thaaa !

That sounds interesting - Whats the field & the qualification called ?

I do believe I remember reading something similar in a course that I was checking out on Organizational Psychology - Sounded very interesting !

Too bad I'm not a people-person !

 

[Xeric]

If you referring to the number operational that may not be difficult to source.

Not the numbers, everyone knows how many of these we have.

But the composite doctrine you talk about makes much sense rather than being confined to a particular unit. I was aware of this regarding SF units but no on the other assets. Presumably I thought the Cobras being at Multan might have them "owned" as such by II Corps on an administrative level.

In Pakistan Army, sirf Infantry tiki rehti hai, baki everything can be attached to or detached

BTW, if Cobras were to stay at Multan, why would they be used in FATA? So, normally the infantry units/sub units are the basic element to which various forces or force multipliers get attached to. These can be 'Under Commad' the infantry commanders, in his 'Direct Support', 'In Support' or in 'Reinforcing' or Superimposing' role depending upon the situation and requirement. Just see that in military terms being 'direct' or 'in' support or for that matter in 'reinforcing' status are all different things and have different connotations - can make a choice or life and death for someone.

 

[Xeric]

An observation. This pic is of Indian tank in some military exercise conducted last month or in any recent past exercises. Their tanks always have a full combat armour

I wonder why all Pakistani tanks in this and previous exercises take part without ERA or any other armour? 

ERA is countered by a tandem warhead ATGM, so just having ERA wouldnt mean that it's a safe tank.

 

[SQ8]

BTW, if Cobras were to stay at Multan, why would they be used in FATA? So, normally the infantry units/sub units are the basic element to which various forces or force multipliers get attached to. These can be 'Under Commad' the infantry commanders, in his 'Direct Support', 'In Support' or in 'Reinforcing' or Superimposing' role depending upon the situation and requirement. Just see that in military terms being 'direct' or 'in' support or for that matter in 'reinforcing' status are all different things and have different connotations - can make a choice or life and death for someone.

I agree on the attachment detachment.. my question was on similar lines to how CENTCOM operates. If as you say a squadron of tanks from Multan was sent to FATA.. does the responsibility of logistics and supply for it end up on the Multan Corps or will the unit that requested the support be tasked with it. 

What the heck is BSC ?

BSG - Boston Consulting Group Matrix tou sunaaa thaaa !

That sounds interesting - Whats the field & the qualification called ?

I do believe I remember reading something similar in a course that I was checking out on Organizational Psychology - Sounded very interesting !

Too bad I'm not a people-person !

The course is general management.. I just focused on these subject areas. BSC(balanced Score card).

 

[Xeric]

I agree on the attachment detachment.. my question was on similar lines to how CENTCOM operates. If as you say a squadron of tanks from Multan was sent to FATA.. does the responsibility of logistics and supply for it end up on the Multan Corps or will the unit that requested the support be tasked with it. 

It depends upon the status of command, in simple words, the level of attachment. For example, being "under command for move only" would mean that the unit can be moved by the commander to which is it is attached, but may not have guaranteed fire support available to him. Logistics of the 'supporting unit' in this case would be the 'supported commander's' baby. Let's say a unit was 'In Support' for Phase - 2 only', so this would mean that the supported commander cannot order the unit to move, so logistics might remain with the parent formation.

In simpler terms, status of command related to two things, 'movement' of a unit or the 'fire support' of that unit. Then there is another thing known as 'command or control'. Command relates to movement, control means control of fire support. If command and control of a unit is centralized, it would mean that when ever the supported unit commander asks for fire or movement of the supporting unit, it will be done after the actual commander of the supporting unit approves it. This would then have different connotations for logistics. Normally, command is left centralized, and control is decentralized i.e an infantry CO cannot move artillery guns but can get fire from them without involving the artillery CO.

Armour component is usually given under command. Artillery is seldom made under command, it normally is in 'direct' / 'in' support or 'reinforcing' role - all having different connotations as regrades to movement, logistics, provision of guaranteed fire support etc. Air support or aviation support is routed in another way = Combat aviation have its own status of command whereas Cargo aviation its own. The Engineers units can be made under command, LAT/HAT also. Air Defence have their own status of command for various types of situation. For a typical defenceive operation it would mean something else, while if it is attached during offensive, it would be different, Even within the offensive, if it is an Assault Against Water Obstacle or FIBUA or an Advance and Encounter Battle, all would have different connotations.

So in short, i cant just tell you if a unit of armour operating in FATA from Multan would be provided with logistic support by whom. It also depends of the location of the unit. e.g. Logistic installations can be static or mobile, be in the Area of Operation (AOO) already or be stationed there permanently or might have been moved from the rear after there was a stretch. So, it varies.

The thing to remember is that all of this is very clear, as proper orders, to include Operation Orders (OO), Administrative Orders or Instructions (we have a different way of handling 'orders' and 'instructions') are issued well before an operation has to commence which spells out the status to command to the very last phase. If you have seen an OO, you might find that it gives details for all the phases like till phase 7 which has to commence after 10 days!

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]