Featured Azerbaijan Armenian War

[Indos]

good analogy but not practical.. Those region didn't have strong language, belief and culture. Like Africans. North African were tribal with no education, developed language, strong ethos and mature religions . Muslims came so they became Muslims. For South Africa, christian came so they became christians. Resistance occurred like Muslim in India. 800 yeras rule, but still not in majority. Neither British could convert them to christianity. Similarly for british in China, No mass conversion. Tribal societies like Afghan, Arab, Mongols, Aztec, Native Americans, Mayans, Malay, Indonesia, Africans, aboriginals were easy to be converted. As invaders/foreigners had already developed language/religion/culture so they overwhelmed locals in every manner. @Joe Shearer @jamahir @waz @Indos

You cannot define ancient Indonesia as tribal since it has major Kingdom like Srivijaya and Majapahit. Even Majapahit territory is bigger than current Indonesia because it also covers whole Malaysia, Philippine, and part of Thailand.

There is written script, religious monuments like Borobudur and Prambanan, and also religious study (Hinduism). We are not tribal like ancient Saudi Arabia where there was no strong kingdom ever exist there.

Indonesian build the biggest Budish temple in the world in year 870

The reason why Indonesia absorb Islam easily is because of Indonesian lies close to the busy trade route between Middle East, India, and China where Arab traders are present and active. Allah Blessing to our people and our people open minded and not stubborn.

There is no Arab/Turkic invasion into Indonesia but early local Muslim can set up various Sultanate that can defeat Hindu kingdom in Indonesia step by step. Majapahit, the biggest kingdom in South East Asia was defeated by Javanese Sultanate and their fanatic follower run away to Bali island.

Just for reminding here that ancient kingdom in Indonesia is one of the few powers in the world that can expel Mongol invasion. Actually the invasion was under Yuan dynasty when Mongol has already captured whole China. Indonesian and Vietnam can expel Mongol during ancient time and these two nations are also the only nations in Sout East Asia that won the war over their western invaders.

After embracing Islam, Dutch also cannot easily convert Indonesian people into Christianity, only 10 percent are becoming Christian and very large majority of them are converted from region in Indonesia that havent embraced Islam yet.

 

[ummarz]

Armenia has gotten it self into a pickle.

- Turkey on the west
- Azerbaijan on the east
- Georgia in the north (Georgia was blocking air route for Russia to Armenia)
- Iran will not help them, the west won't work with Iran to help them either. Plus northern Iran has a large ethnic Azeri population
- Israeli political and material support to Azerbaijan
- Russia sees the money in Azerbaijan, plus they don't have a pact with NK, they have a pact with Armenia, so long Azeris stay out of Armenia, Russia will stay away from the conflict (legally & openly)
- US is out
- Armenia itself committed atrocities so outlandishly and openly that its all out in the open and the world knows it

What we are left with is France and Greece, who don't like the idea of a stronger east end of Turkey, if Azerbaijan becomes stronger there, Turkey will get a nice supply of energy from them. France doesn't like that, so they will oppose it, but how will they do it?, not in NK region. The only way is to engage Turkey else where. But will they make a bold move like that, lets see.

The Armenians had certainly not anticipated this. They were confident in their defensive line in the NK region. Hence they shied away from any talks. But the situation has changed completely. The Azeris have chipped away the Armenian defences, in many places all the way through. If it keeps going the way it has, we can anticipate the Armenian moral to be completely depleted, and without any foreign intervention, NK region will fall to the Azeris. With enough supplies, less than a month for open areas (not including cities).

 

[kingQamaR]

THis is bad logic- you are using 2 wrongs making a right, or 2 rights making a wrong, which is a fallacy. Pakistan--IranINdia sitauation is a very separate issue from Azerbaijan-IRan-ISrael issue, you've muddled both together, so my point still stands. Pls stop bringing Pakistan into issues that dont involve Pakistan. Iran-ISrael-Azerbaijan doesnt involve Pakistan so once again, this logic is handicapped.


I already told you but u used a fallacy to ignore my point, so i will just move on..Iran plays very smart ad keeps winning..thats all i'll say. enjoy!

what your writing is just daft struggling to defend yourself s

yes we are now involved thanks to Iran the day Pakistan caught that fcking stinky Indian kulban terrorist with Iranian passport planning to carry out more terrorists attacks in our Baluchistan.

you jokers, are okay with Israel and India growing buddy defence and trade deals doesn’t bother you. Strangely you have never given a satisfactory answer on this subject have you

Turkey and Azerbaijan are our Muslim brothers who asked for any help we could offer them and we are. Who it upsets angers Pakistan no longer cares nowadays

don’t be to confident Pakistan is a very good player in this to. we have got some very big scalps over the years. big players is our speciality who never recover !!!

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

My Armenian friends in US are pissed at Pakistan standing with Turks.... Anyways, they resorted to cursing and threats of causing harms to Pakistan using France and Greeks.. not sure how that plays in... but when i tried to rationalize that war is by no means an answer, by reminding them what the history has been, they refuse to see it. they dont see their persecution.. sad how one sided mind set is.

Any news of mass civilian casualties? I hope Azeri troops will follow the teachings of Islam and will not harm any unarmed person...

Pak habitually slaps around the Super Powers!!! And, who exactly the heck is Armenia???????

 

[Psychedelic]

I've read last few pages and wanted to give my input to some areas discussed here.

I followed this conflict closely for the last few days and my understanding is without foreign intervention it wont last more than 2 or 3 months. Azerbaijan should capture key areas before snow and cold sets and force a withdrawal. The timing of the operation clearly makes me think they have confidance to handle this before climate makes things hard.

I believe people exaggerate Turkey's involvement in the conflict. She does provide arms, moral support, military counseling, training, insurance etc. But she will not send soldiers, proxies etc or engage hersef. Azeris do not need that. They have numerical, technological advantage should be no problem to handle this themselves. And they are doing just that.

I do not think Turkey overstretched herself either. She involved in a conflict in syria did couple of operations. Which were successful and stopped when international pressure intensified. Now front in syria is handled by her proxies. She involved in a conflict in Libya when the opposing side was about to win and only 1 city left for them to take. Just with millitary counseling, arm and tactical support she saved the side she was supporting and quickly made a successful counter offensive which then again stopped with foreign pressure. That front also handled by Libyans. Turkish army is in Turkey without any losses and in great shape. There is no such a front that the army invested large resources. All the engagements were done with minimal investment.

About greece and france. Let's be realistic here there is very very slight posibility of conflict between greece and turkey specially during pandemic. it is one of those brawls that happens every decade. Turkey's maritime goals are long term and will drag on quite some time. France on the other hand is just trying to capitalize erdogan's bad image to gain some influence in the region. Which won't last long. I do not think they have a long term agenda. France in any way will not engage in direct conflict with Turkey. These are all nato powers. Why people think france will fight directly with an 80 million nation for a problem that herself does not have a direct part in. These are just momentary geopolitics.

Azerbaijan is right in this fight. If armenians realize, this is actually a great opportunity for them to help their own country. They should just give back azeris their land and start to build a relationship with both turkey and Azerbaijan. Armenia would be a different country if she has good reations with Turkey for sure. But their ultra nationalist ideas keep them in a very bad state.

 

[waz]

Armenians are good at only one thing and that is making and propagating lies at massive scale. The reality is that they are getting a sever beating from Azeris. Don't forget these belligerent Armenians have dug in well in the occupied Azeri lands during the past 30 years. These are vastly hilly areas and Armenians have dug in trenches and positions on hill-tops, at every turn of the road or behind the hills along those roads and routes as ambush points. Armenians knew fully well that those roads/routes are the only means of accessing and crossing the occupied areas. Though the Turkish drones have fried numerous Armenians along with their tanks and equipment in their own trenches. Still Azeri troops were trapped and ambushed at many places. Armenians were able to wreak havok on the advancing Azeri troops. But Azeris are advancing steadily. And Armenians are getting thin on their war resources especially man power and armored. They have deployed civilian men in the fighting and now they are throwing their women in too.

Despite their lies and fabrications, Armenians have no moral ground during this war. They are internationally recognized aggressors and the UN has numerous resolutions demanding the Armenians to vacate Azeri lands that these Armenians are illegally occupying. Far from that, Armenians have disgraced themselves by resorting to ethnic cleansing Azeri population from their own lands. Armenians have turned mosques into pig farms in the occupied territories. It's their belligerence and sheer shamelessness that they are still insisting on keeping Azeri lands under their illegal occupation in continued voilation of UN resolutions.

And now Armenians are shamelessly trying to act as a victim of Azeri attack. What other option Azeris had if 30 years of negotiations and UN resolutions could not persuade Armenians to end their illegal occupation. Azeris are motivated for fighting a war to liberate their lands from illegal Armenian occupation, what Armenians are fighting for? They are fighting in shame, disgrace and without a dignity. They are fighting for their globally infamous belligerence. Armenians are shameless aggressors and aggressors cannot be equated with the victims of their aggression.

The global powers too are active in this war behind the scenes. The Russia-US rivalry might be at play too. There is a real possibility that this war might become a battleground for these powers. If Armenia wants to be battlefield, it will certainly bear the brunt of the war. Armenians cleverly ensured in the past that all death and destruction descends only onto Azerbaijan (well, Nagorno-Karabakh is internationally recognized part and parcel of Azerbaijan). That's not going to be the case any more. Azerbaijan will extend the war all the way to Armenian capital to let Armenians have a taste of the medicine that they been forcing on Azeris in the past.

Good post bro.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

One of the most seasoned Turkish journalists on defense and geo-political matters, Ardan Zenturk, is pondering upon the Turkey-Pak axis saving Azerbayjan from the heinous plans of the Imperialists!!! Moreover, he's been very close to the Turkish Establishment for the last 40 years. What exactly Pak and Turkey are planning and executing together????? He's projecting the Turkey-Pak axis as the savior of the Muslim World by breaking all the "paradigms" like Shia-Sunni, Arab-nonArab, moderate-radical etc.!!! It's no fun any longer, it's damn serious...

 

[Hasim]

They are back again...

 

[MuhammedAli]

I hope Pakistan millitarily supports Azerbaijan. Pakistani training, support, weapons, and strategy against the LTTe rebels of Sri Lanka worked a wonder, it did wonder against TTP, and I hope Pakistani technical support, planning, millitary aid, strategy is fighting Armenians with Pakistani men power.

If Armenia can support militarily Christian rebels in Azerbaijan and defend Christians and help them create their own semi autonomous region in Azerbainjan against international law then why should we not support Azerbaijan to protect life, property, and territorial integrity of a Muslim nation. Look at Armenia with population smaller then my pubes and budget lesser then my breakfast is perfectly happy to defend Christians in another country and to protect them not only provided millitary support to a rebellious region. They went on to take additional territory of Azerbaijan so Azeris will first have to fight Armenian forces and then Christian Azeri rebellious region. If Armenian can do that why should we Muslims of Pakistan and army of Pakistan not intervene and legally and on request of Azeri goverment take part in war.

We have had our Pakistani army personnel killed in UN missions protecting Christians and others. We had our men killed for British, Americans, and others ... but when it comes for Muslims we stick our head in ahole and say we want neutrality. I hope Azeri goverment publically and formally requests Pakistani armies assistance and signs an accord to give legitimacy for Pakistani army to help the operations against Armenian forces. Its is not that Azeris need help but we should help. America doesn't need help but always comes to attack holding in hands leashes of European dogs. By helping we create community and Ummah and by abstaining we fuel the disintergretion of unity and cause of Ummah.

In case people think I am Shia, I am not. I am very very very opposed to Shia'ism but man who says la ilaha il-Allah Muhammadur Ras00lAllah is closer to me and my brother in Islam even if misguided and I will support them against the Armenian enemies of Allah and his Messenger and Muslims. On the following forum << MuhammedAli >> is me: https://www.islamimehfil.com/forum/94-articles-and-books/

 

[iby32]

but whatabout when Pakistan was letting Saudis use Jundollah and Jaish UL Adl to hit IRan from Pakistani Balochistan???? look dont start anything you arent ready to complete...Pakistan is not a saint either. I'll rest for now.

Neither Iran. Biggest devil is Iran in Syria and yemen supporting terrorism in Iraq supporting shittes against suni and now Azerbaijan is at war with a non Muslim country Iran is against Azerbaijan just because they have close relationships with Turkey get ur facts right or don't talk non sense

 

[maverick1977]

One of the most seasoned Turkish journalists on defense and geo-political matters, Ardan Zenturk, is pondering upon the Turkey-Pak axis saving Azerbayjan from the heinous plans of the Imperialists!!! Moreover, he's been very close to the Turkish Establishment for the last 40 years. What exactly Pak and Turkey are planning and executing together????? He's projecting the Turkey-Pak axis as the savior of the Muslim World by breaking all the "paradigms" like Shia-Sunni, Arab-nonArab, moderate-radical etc.!!! It's no fun any longer, it's damn serious...

translation or subtitles pls

 

[Saho]

Armenia asking for a ceasefire now

Armenia ready to discuss cease-fire amid Azerbaijan clashes

Armenia says the country is ready to discuss a cease-fire in the separatist region of Nagorno-Karabakh

abcnews.go.com

Which means Azerbaijan is winning.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

translation or subtitles pls

The major points:

• The Turkey-Pak axis is in action in Azerbayjan unsettling the plans of the Imperialists for this region that is extremely rich with gas, oil, minerals, etc.
• The Turkey-Pak axis is breaking all the "imposed" paradigms of friction to control the Muslim world - Shia-Sunni, moderate-radical, Arab-Ajem etc. - to safeguard it from the "wolves"​
• Azerbayjan has played her cards well by keeping all the major stakeholders in equal distance: Russia, the USA/Israil, EU (except Greece/France) etc.
• Azerbayjan is ensuring the "Great Power" dynamics working in her favor to get Karabag' back with the constant and assured help from the Turkey-Pak axis without putting them in danger
• Iran is the spoiler here, but 30-35m folks of Azerbaijani Turkic origins are no fun to deal with. Mollas in Tehran may find their Jubbes in fire this time if they don't play safe. Enough of Siyaset for them
• The USA/Israil wants to fish in the muddy water in Iran vis-à-vis this crisis with Azerbayjan. Turkey is definitely against it for the turmoil inside Iran has greater ramifications
• Russia is trying to kill tons of birds with a single stone! The top objective is to let the current pro-Western Armenian leadership get so humiliated that they disappear along with the West from the Caucasus. Another objective is to keep Turkey away from the physical participation in the war
• Situation is very futile though!! Nobody knows whose hand is in whose pocket
• The constant in this extremely volatile situation is the Turkey-Pak axis

 

[ziaulislam]

Armenia has gotten it self into a pickle.

- Turkey on the west
- Azerbaijan on the east
- Georgia in the north (Georgia was blocking air route for Russia to Armenia)
- Iran will not help them, the west won't work with Iran to help them either. Plus northern Iran has a large ethnic Azeri population
- Israeli political and material support to Azerbaijan
- Russia sees the money in Azerbaijan, plus they don't have a pact with NK, they have a pact with Armenia, so long Azeris stay out of Armenia, Russia will stay away from the conflict (legally & openly)
- US is out
- Armenia itself committed atrocities so outlandishly and openly that its all out in the open and the world knows it

What we are left with is France and Greece, who don't like the idea of a stronger east end of Turkey, if Azerbaijan becomes stronger there, Turkey will get a nice supply of energy from them. France doesn't like that, so they will oppose it, but how will they do it?, not in NK region. The only way is to engage Turkey else where. But will they make a bold move like that, lets see.

The Armenians had certainly not anticipated this. They were confident in their defensive line in the NK region. Hence they shied away from any talks. But the situation has changed completely. The Azeris have chipped away the Armenian defences, in many places all the way through. If it keeps going the way it has, we can anticipate the Armenian moral to be completely depleted, and without any foreign intervention, NK region will fall to the Azeris. With enough supplies, less than a month for open areas (not including cities).

modern warfare is air wafare..air force is the key..
both countries dont have airpower..
but azeri have drones which is like air force..

this is what is going to make armenian suffer, air power, there is no answer to it..

the only answer will be guerilla warfare but long loitering drones will make that difficult too


we need to learn from this, and ensure that our air force is well equipped even at the expense of branches..

we alos need to learn & use this experience in war against militants, the reasonw hy we are suffering i lack of air support in form of long loitering drones
Israel found this as well, hence have the strongest air force in the region

 

[maverick1977]

The major points:

• The Turkey-Pak axis is in action in Azerbayjan unsettling the plans of the Imperialists for this region that is extremely rich with gas, oil, minerals, etc.
• The Turkey-Pak axis is breaking all the "imposed" paradigms of friction to control the Muslim world - Shia-Sunni, moderate-radical, Arab-Ajem etc. - to safeguard it from the "wolves"​
• Azerbayjan has played her cards well by keeping all the major stakeholders in equal distance: Russia, the USA/Israil, EU (except Greece/France) etc.
• Azerbayjan is ensuring the "Great Power" dynamics working in her favor to get Karabag' back with the constant and assured help from the Turkey-Pak axis without putting them in danger
• Iran is the spoiler here, but 30-35m folks of Azerbaijani Turkic origins are no fun to deal with. Mollas in Tehran may find their Jubbes in fire this time if they don't play safe. Enough of Siyaset for them
• The USA/Israil wants to fish in the muddy water in Iran vis-à-vis this crisis with Azerbayjan. Turkey is definitely against it for the turmoil inside Iran has greater ramifications
• Russia is trying to kill tons of birds with a single stone! The top objective is to let the current pro-Western Armenian leadership get so humiliated that they disappear along with the West from the Caucasus. Another objective is to keep Turkey away from the physical participation in the war
• Situation is very futile though!! Nobody knows whose hand is in whose pocket
• The constant in this extreme volatile situation is the Turkey-Pak axis

i hope and pray that this allies changes the fate of muslims world, ameen