Australia 'spied on Indonesian President Yudhoyono'

[jhungary]

The weak apologies.



緊係尐啦，筆劃少咁Ｘ多而且又正規，明明有個好寫好用嘅［尐］尐傻凱仔係要寫成鬼死咁複雜嘅［啲］．

尐係啲慨正寫，但係大多數人都係用啲既，點解?
好多人都話，如果要用正寫，就唔會用尐同啲啦!都痴線㗎!!嘿嘿

里晒边哪？Australian Cantonese?

Lol what the hell are you talking about? I don't understand...

 

[Snomannen]

尐係啲慨正寫，但係大多數人都係用啲既，點解?
好多人都話，如果要用正寫，就唔會用尐同啲啦!都痴線㗎!!嘿嘿

喺非屎不可或者香港討論區成日見到有人用啲或者Ｄ，好心你想打廣東話就正規尐寫返個仆街尐啦，
所以我就鍾意上台灣或者BigSix網，眼見唔使煩．

Translate: No way you did it 7 times yesterday?

 

[jhungary]

喺非屎不可或者香港討論區成日見到有人用啲或者Ｄ，好心你想打廣東話就正規尐寫返個仆街尐啦，
所以我就鍾意上台灣或者BigSix網，眼見唔使煩．

Translate: No way you did it 7 times yesterday?

Lol that's why I don't type Chinese often

 

[Snomannen]

Lol that's why I don't type Chinese often

打英文邊有打中文好玩：

尸人尔
口
巾

Translate: @Viet is not a faggot.

 

[Tanja]

On Monday 18.11.2013,Indonesia summoned the Australian ambassador and showed its anger toward the allegations that Australia tried to listen into the phone calls of Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.

As Indonesia's president said the ties with Australia have been "damaged" by this spying while Australia‘s reply was calm and had no remorse.

FNOTW: Australia and Indonesia relationship is in the risk of breaking

 

[Nike]

Well, just waiting what Abbot and his cabinets doing when SBY decided to support Boats people entering Australian water and banned import beef from Australia

 

[Nike]

Battle lines drawn against
Oz
Yuliasri Perdani and Wahyoe Boediwardhana, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta/Surabaya | Headlines | Wed, November 20 2013, 10:16 AM

As the diplomatic spat intensifies, Indonesia warned Australia on Tuesday that it would relax preventive measures against boat people using the archipelago as a stepping stone for their onward journeys to Australia.

Following a request from President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono for a review of areas of bilateral cooperation on Tuesday, the National Police and the Law and Human Rights Ministry, which oversees the Immigration Agency, have prepared to halt collaboration on combating people smuggling.

National Police chief Gen. Sutarman said he would soon report a list detailing areas of police cooperation with Australia for the President to review.

“We will wait for the President’s response on how the police should handle any cessation of cooperation,” Sutarman said, adding that topping the list would be preventive measures against asylum seekers heading toward Australia.

The boat people issue is politically sensitive in Australia, and newly elected Prime Minister Tony Abbott promised voters he would reduce the number of boat people reaching Australian territory by forging closer relations with Indonesia.

Those relations quickly soured on Monday following reports that the Defence Signals Directorate (now the Australian Signals Directorate) allegedly wiretapped the phones of Yudhoyono, First Lady Ani Yudhoyono and several ministers in 2009.

Yudhoyono said that the US and Australian wiretapping had “certainly damaged strategic partnerships with Indonesia”.

“I also regret the statement by the Australian prime minister that without remorse belittled this matter of wiretapping Indonesia,” said Yudhoyono in his Twitter account.

Politicians have also urged Yudhoyono to retaliate for the eavesdropping by no longer attempting to prevent boat people, most of whom come from the Middle East, from making the crossing to Australia.

“We are in a better position than Australia. This issue [boat people] could be utilized as a bargaining chip in demanding an apology from Prime Minister Abbott,” said a member of the House of Representatives’ Commission I on defense, foreign affairs and information, Susaningtyas Handayani Kertopati.

The spokesman for the Law and Human Rights Ministry, Marolan J. Barimbing, said that while Yudhoyono had not yet issued an instruction to terminate or scale down the ministry’s efforts to stem the flow of boat people, it was taking preparatory measures.

“We are anticipating such an instruction by reviewing our areas of cooperation, particularly those related to immigration. Our priority is our national interests. We’re working based on regulations set up to protect the country from undocumented migrants, not to serve another country’s interests,” he said.

Over the last five years, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) has seen the number of refugees and asylum seekers in Indonesia seeking UNHCR assistance increase 18-fold.

Authorities conduct activities related to preventing migrants from crossing into Australian territory on a near daily basis.

The police arrested three Indonesian Navy personnel on Sunday for allegedly aiding 106 migrants from Myanmar who were attempting to pass through Indonesian territory en route to Australia.

The arrests were made after police stopped a tourist bus and a minibus on the road. The 106 migrants were on their way to a boat that would take them straight to Australia from the southern coast of Garut regency, West Java.

Despite Indonesia’s myriad domestic problems, it has been increasingly burdened with keeping Australia’s backyard clear of unwanted migrants from impoverished or restive countries.

During Abbott’s visit to Indonesia from Sept. 30 to Oct. 1, he and Yudhoyono committed to further strengthen Australian and Indonesian leadership in regional efforts to combat people smuggling and human trafficking.

Australia is among Indonesia’s largest sources of foreign aid as it provided A$646.8 million (US$608.7 million) in financial assistance between 2012 and 2013, up by 20 percent compared to the previous year.

Military (TNI) spokesman Rear Adm. Iskandar Sitompul said that the TNI was awaiting instruction from the Defense Ministry regarding the future of TNI cooperation with Australia, including on the joint sea patrol on the territorial border.

“The joint patrol is aimed at catching migrants and handling other territorial issues,” he said.

The Defense Ministry’s director for international cooperation, Brig. Gen. Jan Pieter, said the ministry was still waiting for the President’s instruction on any plan to freeze defense partnerships.

“Until now, security relations with Australia remain in good shape,” he said.

www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013/11/20/battle-lines-drawn-against-oz.html

as i said before, SBY has taken drastic measures to demand formal apologize from Abbot himself and he choice Boat Peoples issue as his card. I think this is the first time i see SBY got angry about external/foreign issue

 

[Viet]

Well, just waiting what Abbot and his cabinets doing when SBY decided to support Boats people entering Australian water and banned import beef from Australia

the first is empty threat, the second would force Australia to retaliate. Abbott expressed this regret before parliament, you should accept this and consider technical means to stop further spying activities from foreign countries.

 

[Viet]

打英文邊有打中文好玩：

尸人尔
口
巾

Translate: @Viet is not a faggot.

you guy derail the topic...lol

 

[Nike]

the first is empty threat, the second would force Australia to retaliate. Abbott expressed this regret before parliament, you should accept this and consider technical means to stop further spying activities from foreign countries.

Not that, our gov. has doing that right now, this is not empty threat and SBY you can say he is a cunning man indeed a cunning man. 37 peoples of illegal migrants which before had been detained in custody has been missing in West Java, but locals says government cars has pickup them and god know what happened for the rest of story.

Indonesia Suspends People Smuggling Cooperation Following Australia Spy Scandal
By Jakarta Globe on 3:32 pm November 20, 2013.

Indonesia will suspend all intelligence and military cooperation with Australia — including efforts to combat people smuggling — as officials investigate claims that Australia’s intelligence agency spied on President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono and his inner circle, the president announced on Wednesday.

“For me personally, and for Indonesia, the wiretapping conducted by Australia toward some officials, including me, is really hard to comprehend,” Yudhoyono said. “It’s not the Cold War-era anymore.”

The president delivered the firm warning to Australian officials in the televised speech Wednesday afternoon, demanding an explanation one day after Prime Minister Tony Abbott refused to apologize for the incident. Bilateral cooperation on intelligence and military matters will be put on hold as Indonesia reviews allegations that Australia’s intelligence agency, the Australian Signals Directorate, attempted to listen in on phone conversations between Yudhoyono, his wife and members of his inner circle.

The allegations, which broke in reports by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation and the domestic version of the Guardian on Monday, inspired anger in Indonesia as lawmakers and Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa promised repercussions to diplomatic relations if Australia failed to directly address the spying scandal.

“We are downgrading Australia’s relations with us,” Marty said. “Like taps, we are closing off areas of cooperation one by one.”

The cessation of Indonesia’s efforts to combat people smuggling, a hot-button issue in Australia, is a serious step by the Indonesian government. Abbott was elected amid a wave of anti-asylum seeker sentiment on a platform promising a hard-line stance on Australia’s so-called “boatpeople problem,” including claims that Australia’s navy would turn asylum seeker boats around once they entered national waters.

The Australian government’s policies and a previous spying scandal have since damaged ties between the two nations. Jakarta viewed the “tow-back” plan and intelligence activities as a violation of Indonesia’s sovereignty. This most recent scandal added further strain, pulling Yudhoyono into the fray and setting off a flood of nationalist sentiment on the floor of the House of Representatives.

Deputy House Speaker Priyo Budi Santoso, typically a vocal opponent of the central government, applauded Yudhoyono for taking firm action on the spying issue.

“I highly appreciate the government this time,” Priyo told the state-run Antara News Agency, “[They] acted firm and strong by recalling our ambassador to Australia. This action is clear and shows that Australia has made us uncomfortable and unhappy with the wiretapping.”

Indonesia’s intelligence agency, the State Intelligence Agency (BIN), said their Australian counterparts reached out and promised to no longer wiretap Indonesian officials.

“In communication with us they said that the most important thing is now and in the future there won’t be any more wiretapping,” Marciano Noorman, the head of the BIN, said. “There should be a commitment from [our] intelligence partner in Australia to evaluate and improve the condition in the future.”

But for some Indonesian politicians, assurances from Australia were not enough. The Golkar Party’s Poempida Hidayatulloh urged the Indonesian government to invest in advanced spying technology of its own. The nation needs to take retaliatory measures against Australia, including diplomatic sanctions, as a show of force, he said.

“In solving this problem, just getting angry is not enough,” Poempida said. “This is the time we should leave this loser mentality behind, especially concerning foreign countries. This is the time for Indonesia to remain tough and show the world that we cannot be humiliated.”

Fahri Hamzah, of the Islamist Prosperous Justice Party (PKS), said Indonesia needed harsher laws against wiretapping, a controversial view that could both provide legal action for those caught spying but also defang the Corruption Eradication Commission (KPK), which can currently wiretap phones without a warrant.

“”How is the president’s handphone unprotected?” Fahri told the Indonesian news portal Okezone.com. ”If [Yudhoyono] and his intelligence advisors are not aware that the whole world is now wiretapping [each other], they’re naive.

“The question is, how ready are we?”

— Agence France-Presse contributed to this report

 

[Viet]

...
But for some Indonesian politicians, assurances from Australia were not enough. The Golkar Party’s Poempida Hidayatulloh urged the Indonesian government to invest in advanced spying technology of its own. The nation needs to take retaliatory measures against Australia, including diplomatic sanctions, as a show of force, he said.

“In solving this problem, just getting angry is not enough,” Poempida said. “This is the time we should leave this loser mentality behind, especially concerning foreign countries. This is the time for Indonesia to remain tough and show the world that we cannot be humiliated.”

Fahri Hamzah, of the Islamist Prosperous Justice Party (PKS), said Indonesia needed harsher laws against wiretapping, a controversial view that could both provide legal action for those caught spying but also defang the Corruption Eradication Commission (KPK), which can currently wiretap phones without a warrant.
...
— Agence France-Presse contributed to this report

the italic/bold part: I´m afraid you take this issue too emotional. Personal feelings and emotions are a bad advice in international relations.

 

[nufix]

You missed my point, in fact if Australia are close friend and allies, Indonesian deserve an apology, seeing how your government and our government work on the asylum issue, I would say Indonesia is neither Australia close friend or allies.

In term of politics, Australia regretted these type of situation, but apologise for it have its slim chance.

I mean did US apologised for spying in china when the PLAAF intercepted the RP-3 off hainan resulting the rowing of both RP-3 and J-8 that sent up to intercept？

This is my point



係尐定係啲?

I would say that too, I don't deny that Indonesia is also still indifferent towards Australia, not an enemy but Indos governent is putting cautions on Canberra. But we are not talking about how the actual situation is, we are talking about what Gillard and Abbot's government has been trying to show in these past two years.

Both Gillard and Abbot was and is praising how good the relationship between Indonesia and Australia is, that in the future Indonesia might be Australian ally and both governments are working to achieve that. Such "commitment" was later followed by a discovery of Australian spying attempts. If Australia is seeing Indonesia and treating Indonesia the way U.S seeing and treating China, or if Indonesia is posing a direct threat to Australia the way China does in S.C.S, Abbot's refusal would be acceptable.

In politics, it is not about whether a person or a country deserve an apology or not, it is all about how committed you are to your own statements. In this case, Australia has been showing not only to Indonesia but also the entire region that Indonesia is a friend to Australia and later was caught tapping the President's phone line. Such reaction from Indonesia is actually "normal", and an apology is also "normal".

Instead of letting the fire goes out by itself like Howard, Abbot poured gasoline into it by openly refusing to give an explanation about the spying allegation.

 

[nufix]

the first is empty threat, the second would force Australia to retaliate. Abbott expressed this regret before parliament, you should accept this and consider technical means to stop further spying activities from foreign countries.

A huge clash of culture is understatement here. As an Asian, you should understand that humiliation should be expressed directly by the one who did the wrong to the one who had been wronged. Take Japanese as an example of how humiliation should be taken extremely.

What we should look here is that Abbot expressing this regret before his own parliament, not to Indonesia, and was saying like "it is what it is , let it go" which (in Indonesian eyes) shows no regret at all. no wonder Indonesian government took it like a lemonade being poured on a wound. It is now being considered as a huge insult, the fact that "calm Susillo" reacted this far shows how huge the insult is not only to his country but also to himself, this is the first time our president got mad in the matter of foreign relation.

As an example, We had Malaysian warships crossing our border in 2008-2009 in Ambalat and then we had our navies stood off in Ambalat ready to fire, Susillo halted it and calmed the folks down, in return he got mocked and critisized not only by his own people, but also from his generals. At that time, there were already ten of thousands volunteer armies being formed in almost major cities in Indonesia. The tension was higher than this, but our President managed his government to not to respond Malaysian provocations, he let his ships chasing Malaysian ships without any bullet being fired, which normally should be responded by full armed retalliation.

Judging from the actions taken by our President, you can see how huge the insult taken by him.

 

[jhungary]

I would say that too, I don't deny that Indonesia is also still indifferent towards Australia, not an enemy but Indos governent is putting cautions on Canberra. But we are not talking about how the actual situation is, we are talking about what Gillard and Abbot's government has been trying to show in these past two years.

Both Gillard and Abbot was and is praising how good the relationship between Indonesia and Australia is, that in the future Indonesia might be Australian ally and both governments are working to achieve that. Such "commitment" was later followed by a discovery of Australian spying attempts. If Australia is seeing Indonesia and treating Indonesia the way U.S seeing and treating China, or if Indonesia is posing a direct threat to Australia the way China does in S.C.S, Abbot's refusal would be acceptable.

In politics, it is not about whether a person or a country deserve an apology or not, it is all about how committed you are to your own statements. In this case, Australia has been showing not only to Indonesia but also the entire region that Indonesia is a friend to Australia and later was caught tapping the President's phone line. Such reaction from Indonesia is actually "normal", and an apology is also "normal".

Instead of letting the fire goes out by itself like Howard, Abbot poured gasoline into it by openly refusing to give an explanation about the spying allegation.

Umm... Did you ever read news source in Australia?

Friends? Maybe. But as for a future good friend and allied? I don't think so.

The pillar of Australian political issue is unemployment, high inflation and boat people

If you have see or hear any Australia media outlet, you will see they all have the same tone, that's Indonesian let us down on this

If you ask 10 Australian tomorrow and ask them whose fault is it for all those boat people coming to Australia. 8 out of 10 will say its Indonesian fault. That's because both labor and liberal party blame the Indonesian government for non active control.

While both side accuse the otherside of not doing enough to pressure the Indonesian government, only a few of Australian would think this is our own government fault.

Indeed we are to cooperate closer with Indonesian, that does not mean our current situation is compare to US-Germany or even US-France

I am not justifying those kind of action, but the chance is quite slim for Indonesian to score an Aussie apology.

Me? I just think its bad that we got caught, if you ask me anything is wrong for us to spy on you? I would say our trust is not enough to depend solely on your word, this kind of thing is unavoidable

 

[nufix]

Umm... Did you ever read news source in Australia?

Friends? Maybe. But as for a future good friend and allied? I don't think so.

I don't think it is too, but that is what Gillard and Abbot were indirectly trying "show" in these last 2 years.

The pillar of Australian political issue is unemployment, high inflation and boat people

If you have see or hear any Australia media outlet, you will see they all have the same tone, that's Indonesian let us down on this

If you ask 10 Australian tomorrow and ask them whose fault is it for all those boat people coming to Australia. 8 out of 10 will say its Indonesian fault. That's because both labor and liberal party blame the Indonesian government for non active control.

While both side accuse the otherside of not doing enough to pressure the Indonesian government, only a few of Australian would think this is our own government fault.

Ah.. no wonder Abbot refused to give any explanation and apology. He is actually doing what our President is dong right now. Trying to save their face in front of their own folks.

Most Indonesians will also say Australia is an enemy, hiding until it finds the right moment to backstab Indonesia. Just like what happened to East Timor case.