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Australia 'spied on Indonesian President Yudhoyono'

I don't think it is too, but that is what Gillard and Abbot were indirectly trying "show" in these last 2 years.



Ah.. no wonder Abbot refused to give any explanation and apology. He is actually doing what our President is dong right now. Trying to save their face in front of their own folks.

Most Indonesians will also say Australia is an enemy, hiding until it finds the right moment to backstab Indonesia. Just like what happened to East Timor case.

Look man, I have no particular hatred toward any Indonesian, I am just telling you what it is being shown and protrait.

Fact is, if tomorrow New Zealand found out we are bugging them, Abbott may apologise. I just don't see how Abbott would apologise to Indonesia
 
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Look man, I have no particular hatred toward any Indonesian, I am just telling you what it is being shown and protrait.

Fact is, if tomorrow New Zealand found out we are bugging them, Abbott may apologise. I just don't see how Abbott would apologise to Indonesia

Relax, i am not saying you have any particular hatred toward Indonesia.
 
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Relax, i am not saying you have any particular hatred toward Indonesia.

Lol yeah, need to get this out in the open first, otherwise the post may turned to heated argument

This is a regrettable situation, but this is how the current situation dictated and Indonesia pissed off or not, we would do it regardless. That is the current situation now, nothing can be change

And as I said the whole Indonesian saga is based on asylum seeker boat, here are the latest news

Indon halts people smuggling cooperation - Yahoo!7
 
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Lol yeah, need to get this out in the open first, otherwise the post may turned to heated argument

This is a regrettable situation, but this is how the current situation dictated and Indonesia pissed off or not, we would do it regardless. That is the current situation now, nothing can be change

And as I said the whole Indonesian saga is based on asylum seeker boat, here are the latest news

Indon halts people smuggling cooperation - Yahoo!7

And the worse is not yet end.

These are some news (in Bahasa) about what our government took and will take regarding this diplomatic downturn


The presidential official statements; "Temporary stopping military to military cooperation"

1453231_397728513663940_43576675_n.jpg


watch the video at: Indonesia halts co-operation on people smuggling in phone tapping row | World news | theguardian.com


Commission I (In the field of Defence and Nations security) of Indo's House of Representative will be attempting to meet Snowden, if necessary.

""We will be trying to meet the Commission I Snowden in Moscow," said Vice Chairman of Commission I Agus Gumiwang in the Parliament Building, Senayan, Jakarta, Tuesday (19/11/2013)

detikNews : Sikapi Penyadapan, Komisi I DPR Wacanakan Temui Snowden di Moskow
 
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Indonesia to us Aussie is some sort of frienemy, the prospect of spying is currently accepted as a routine procedure

In the game of intelligence gathering, everybody is doing their part, of course some would have different approach to another. It rather on how much resource you want to devote and how much you can afford

What I mean afford is not just you afford to use or build the hardware ie money, but also how much you are willing to risk

Who knows, maybe the Indonesian indeed tried to cap our PM phone, just they had not succeed.

@Wholegrain

You missed one big chapter on East Timor I don't know if you just forgetting about it or you just don't want to say it

Without Australia, East Timor will not even exist today, if you have to quote the Australian green those leftist to justified your point, then bee prepare to receive all the Arab brethren you got in Australia, cause they are dead set against Islam

Greenleft is a supporter of MILF in Mindanao.

Greenleft also supports the Arab-Muslim former PM of East Timor, Mari Alkatiri, because he was against Australia stealing East Timor's gas.

East Timor: Fretilin leader calls for Australian troops' withdrawal | Green Left Weekly

EAST TIMOR: Mari Alkatiri's unseating | Green Left Weekly

East Timor after Alkatiri: nation or protectorate? | Green Left Weekly

Australia unstead Alkatiri in 2006 by formenting riots in East Timor and intervening militarily. They tried toportray him as a "marxist" "communist" Muslim who threatened Australia's security.

Foras Teamhrach

Stand up, the real Mr. Alkatiri

Australia continues its unrelenting campaign for “regime change” in East Timor - World Socialist Web Site
 
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The reason why I wanted to be here is to improve my English, but instead of improving my English I learn freaking history which is one of my favorite subject at high school.
 
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well all of this mess is starting from Snowden, i think he is deserve something bad for his acts against his own country
 
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A huge clash of culture is understatement here. As an Asian, you should understand that humiliation should be expressed directly by the one who did the wrong to the one who had been wronged. Take Japanese as an example of how humiliation should be taken extremely.

What we should look here is that Abbot expressing this regret before his own parliament, not to Indonesia, and was saying like "it is what it is , let it go" which (in Indonesian eyes) shows no regret at all. no wonder Indonesian government took it like a lemonade being poured on a wound. It is now being considered as a huge insult, the fact that "calm Susillo" reacted this far shows how huge the insult is not only to his country but also to himself, this is the first time our president got mad in the matter of foreign relation.

...
Judging from the actions taken by our President, you can see how huge the insult taken by him.
Actually by judging Australia actions on the ground, it is far from being your friend and ally. You are angry and upset right now because you mistakenly believed those words from Aussie politicians and leaders, who publicy said otherwise. Words are cheap. It is time for you to wake up. Nations act on own egoistic interests. Australia spys on Indonesia... and vice versa. It shows a lack of trust.

As for Asian, the Aussie are not, they are caucasian.

The reason why I wanted to be here is to improve my English, but instead of improving my English I learn freaking history which is one of my favorite subject at high school.
LOL on this forum you can learn more than you can ever learn at school. Politics is a dirty business, it is a world full of liars and pretenders.
 
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I assure you Indonesia does, you just don't know about it :)

"When he retired in 2004 Indonesian spymaster General Abdullah Mahmud Hendropriyono revealed his agency had not only tapped Australian civil and military communications and politicians' phone calls during the 1999 East Timor crisis, but had also unsuccessfully attempted to recruit Australian officials as double agents."

Indonesia suspends co-operation with Australia on people smuggling in spying row | News.com.au

That's right not to the degree that Australian does.
 
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Australian Federal Police site has been hacked

well this will be a war at different world :what:

Abbott's failure to listen escalates spying row
By Dave McRae


Updated 1 hour 23 minutes ago

Tony Abbott's failure to proactively defuse the spying row with Indonesia has escalated it, writes Dave McRae. To restore ties he will need to change tack.

After suspending various aspects of Australia-Indonesia cooperation, Indonesian president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono last night wrote to Tony Abbott demanding an explanation for Australia's wiretapping.

The Prime Minister told the parliament he will respond fully to the letter, suggesting he may go beyond Australia's pro forma public response to date. If he does, the question will be why the Prime Minister did not publicly signal any compromise sooner, particularly if reports that Australia has agreed to discontinue such wiretapping are true.

Abbott's failure to proactively defuse this situation epitomises his approach to relations with Indonesia. On both asylum seekers and in this spying row, he has refused to listen when Indonesia has made clear what course of action it hopes for from Australia. The result in both cases has been the same: the row has escalated to involve emotive nationalism and Indonesia has consequently had no choice but to take a hard line.

On asylum seekers, Abbott and the Coalition have consistently refused to heed Indonesia's objections to turning back boats. Even in opposition, the Coalition's policy spurred objections from both Indonesia's foreign minister and vice president, with the latter describing refusal of turnbacks as Jakarta's "basic position". Objections within Indonesia to the Coalition's asylum seeker policies then escalated during the election campaign, when the Coalition added buying boats and paying for information to its policy menu. Conservative commentators in Indonesia weighed in, with one describing the policies as demeaning.

Despite Indonesia's objections, the Coalition pressed ahead with these policies in their rhetoric after winning office. The Indonesian response was immediate and scathing. In particular, the Coalition's insistence that they did not need Indonesia's permission to turn back boats made asylum seekers a point of emotive nationalism, where previously they had rarely been discussed within Indonesia.

The Coalition's stance saw foreign minister Marty Natalegawa reported as telling the Indonesian parliament that Indonesia would reject the Coalition's policy. In another statement soon after, Natalegawa also told reporters that Indonesia could not accept any policy that would "violate Indonesia's sovereignty".

The ultimate result was that the Coalition did not achieve their goal of turning back boats, and in pressing for this outcome they made other forms of cooperation on asylum seekers much harder. For instance, Indonesia could not be seen to be bowing to Australia's will on this issue, contributing to their refusal to take back asylum seekers rescued within Indonesia's search and rescue zone.

The spying row has escalated along the same path. From the outset, it should have been obvious that Indonesia needed something that it could take back to its public. Indonesia's defence minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro in fact said precisely that following the first round of revelations of Australian spying. Anticipating his counterpart's visit to Jakarta, he told journalists that David Johnston's trip would allow him to explain things directly to the Indonesian public. It was an opportunity that Johnston did not take up.

When reports subsequently emerged that Australia had tried to wiretap the mobile phones of Yudhoyono, his wife and many of Indonesia's top leaders, Yudhoyono himself tweeted:

Indonesia also demands Australia for an official response, one that can be understood by the public, on the tapping on Indonesia. *SBY*

— S. B. Yudhoyono (@SBYudhoyono) November 19, 2013

He further characterised Abbott's refusal to provide anything more than a bare response to be belittling the issue, without showing any remorse. Had he listened to Indonesia's signals, Abbott could have moved in both cases to defuse the situation earlier. Turning back boats was not a crucial plank of Australia's response to asylum seekers, and could have been dropped quietly before it became a sticking point.

In the spying row, Abbott could have provided something publicly even if he had no intention of changing Australia's practice, be it an apology, a review, or some other compromise. In the absence even of the appearance of a concession, Yudhoyono's only available option was to demonstrate his firmness to the Indonesian public.

Abbott's lack of appreciation of Indonesia's politics is a curious failing for a prime minister who often allows domestic politicking to colour his foreign policy rhetoric. To put ties with Indonesia back on track, it is a failing he will need to correct.
 
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That's right not to the degree that Australian does.

How do you know? You don't know what Indonesian spy agencies are up too, either do i. You wouldn't know what Australian spy agencies were up to unless it was leaked.

Indonesia would be doing the same level of spying Australia does. It's what all governments in the world do.

Australian Federal Police site has been hacked

well this will be a war at different world :what:

Abbott's failure to listen escalates spying row
By Dave McRae

Indonesia is just trying to flex its political muscle and is going over the top. Our government didn't react this way when it found out about Indonesia spying in 2004 because we know its what all governments do.

Indonesia has an election coming up so it just wants to please voters.

Apparently there is protests in Indonesia happening and people are burning the Australian flag. We don't have such hysterical, uncivilized protests in Australia.

As for Asian, the Aussie are not, they are caucasian.

Not true at all. Australia is a multi-racial country.

Greenleft is a supporter of MILF in Mindanao.

Greenleft also supports the Arab-Muslim former PM of East Timor, Mari Alkatiri, because he was against Australia stealing East Timor's gas.

East Timor: Fretilin leader calls for Australian troops' withdrawal | Green Left Weekly

EAST TIMOR: Mari Alkatiri's unseating | Green Left Weekly

East Timor after Alkatiri: nation or protectorate? | Green Left Weekly

Australia unstead Alkatiri in 2006 by formenting riots in East Timor and intervening militarily. They tried toportray him as a "marxist" "communist" Muslim who threatened Australia's security.

Foras Teamhrach

Stand up, the real Mr. Alkatiri

Australia continues its unrelenting campaign for “regime change” in East Timor - World Socialist Web Site

GreenLeft is a far-left wing extremist and communist media outlet. Nothing written on there is taken seriously and it is heavily biased.
 
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How do you know? You don't know what Indonesian spy agencies are up too, either do i. You wouldn't know what Australian spy agencies were up to unless it was leaked.

Indonesia would be doing the same level of spying Australia does. It's what all governments in the world do.



Indonesia is just trying to flex its political muscle and is going over the top. Our government didn't react this way when it found out about Indonesia spying in 2004 because we know its what all governments do.

Indonesia has an election coming up so it just wants to please voters.

Apparently there is protests in Indonesia happening and people are burning the Australian flag. We don't have such hysterical, uncivilized protests in Australia.



Not true at all. Australia is a multi-racial country.



GreenLeft is a far-left wing extremist and communist media outlet. Nothing written on there is taken seriously and it is heavily biased.

As i said, your government epic failure is to address the issue comprehensibly as soon as possible and instead they are look down upon us, Indonesia as a whole. Just a single sincere apologize from Abbot to atone the "sin" and easier this row why is so hard to do and doesn't cost a penny
 
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How do you know? You don't know what Indonesian spy agencies are up too, either do i. You wouldn't know what Australian spy agencies were up to unless it was leaked.

Indonesia would be doing the same level of spying Australia does. It's what all governments in the world do.

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Didn't I just said I almost got recruited by the B.I.N. Indonesia lacks motive and the funds to commit the massive surveillance with the like of Australia or the US. I was told if I joined I'll be sent to Singapore to "spy" on them. By spy I mean gather information. I'll just sit there to wait for an informant and pay 'em. Not state secret (mind you). That is pretty much what counts as "Indonesian Espionage."


Indonesia has an election coming up so it just wants to please voters.

"Pleasing voters." You must be white to be even suggest that is the only reason why. As someone who have an understanding in politics. The main reason is we cannot be seen as weak. or in my humble language "we cannot be seen as Australia's Bitch." Then again I understand where Abbot is coming from, have it been me with my pants down I will do the same as him, but fortunately it's not me being grilled right now.
 
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Abbott adviser compares Indonesia FM to '70s **** star'



In the comment on Twitter, since deleted by the self-styled digital shock-jock, Mr Textor attacked the Indonesian Foreign Minister: ''Apology demanded from Australia by a bloke who looks like a 1970s Pilipino [sic] **** star and has ethics to match,'' he tweeted, along with the hashtag ''#Fairfax demands appeasement''.

Read more: Mark Textor stokes fire with Indonesian Foreign Minister '**** star' gibe; sack him, says Malcolm Fraser
 
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