***** Australia Rejects Joint Patrol with US Navy in South China Sea *****

[Keel]

And I repeat this again:

"Viet" = the "Viet" in "VIET-nam"
Cong = Communists

Vietcong = Vietnamese Communists

Vietnam is a communist country

What is wrong with that?

 

[Sasquatch]

who is more authoritative
the members or the dictionaries? The members are collectively at fault here!

again if we have members who complain that "communist China" is offensive to Chinese members here on pdf should you give -ve ratings to those who use "communist China" in their comments and to ban them as well?

I say this once again:

the dictionaries that I quoted are world reputable
how many of you look them up when you have doubts for unknown vocabulary or verbal meaning or description?

Members here on pdf, however senior or high ranking they are, vary very widely in qualities and as such we rely on reliable and creditable resources for definitive answers

It is often set as the norm everywhere and PDF is not alone to ask for quotation of sources so as to back up arguments

I think I have done so fully and adequately

And people are just blind to have deleted my posts and given me -ve ratings

I can see your point but the usage of the word has become derogatory as someone calling Chinese Chicom or Chibot. while you didn't intend to use it in a derogatory way your negative ratings can be reviewed by the Higher up mods depending on the situation and reversed. My suggestion just drop it and continue with the main topic threads been derailed because of this debate.

 

[gambit]

To the Americans and the Viets...

Let the Chinese be as they are. Let the silent readers make up their minds. Since the Chinese cannot control PDF, they will soil it and well soiled they did. They have no desire to self police and with a protector in the admin staff, the soil will persists. Do not give any negative rating. It is meaningless anyway.

 

[jhungary]

My final post at this issue.

@Keel I don't know why you continue fighting. As I have stated before, a word appear in dictionary and a word being used as a slur have no relation. A normal word (i.e. non-insulting/disrespect) appear on Dictionary can be used as a slur. Dictionary only need to explain the word origin and the word form and usage, they are not responsibility to display whether or not a word can be used as slang or slur, especially if that word is not of English/Latin Origin. (Vietcong is not an English word). I will give you a list of example.

Example 1 Hajji - Normal word as a title given to Muslim after their Mecca Pilgram

As per Oxford Dictionary

haji - definition of haji in English from the Oxford dictionary

(also hajji)
Definition of haji in English:
noun (plural hajis)
Muslim who has been to Mecca as a pilgrim: [as title]: Haji Hadi

As per Merriam-Webster

Hajji | Definition of hajji by Merriam-Webster

hajji


noun \ˈha-jē\
Definition of HAJJI
: one who has made a pilgrimage to Mecca —often used as a title
Variants of HAJJI
hajji also hadji \ˈha-jē\

As Per Dictionary.com

Hajji | Define Hajji at Dictionary.com

or hadji, haji

[haj-ee] /ˈhædʒ i/
Spell Syllables

• Examples
• Word Origin

noun, plural hajjis.
1.
a Muslim who has gone on a pilgrimage to Mecca.
2.
a Christian from Greece, Armenia, or any country of the Near East, who has visited the Holy Sepulcher at Jerusalem.

As Per Collins Dictionary

Definition of “hajji” | Collins English Dictionary

hajji or hadji or or haji (ˈhædʒɪ; ˈhædʒə)
Definitions
noun
Word forms: plural hajjis hadjis or hajis

1. a Muslim who has made a pilgrimage to Mecca: also used as a title
2. a Christian of the Greek Orthodox or Armenian Churches who has visited Jerusalem

However, Hajji is extremely offensive when used in the US (to Muslim Immigrant) and in Iraq (to Iraqi Citizens)

So in American Heritage Dictionary, it would shown as a slur/offensive

American Heritage Dictionary Entry: Hajji

(hăjē)
Share:
n.pl. haj·is or haj·jis also hadj·is
1. Islam
a. One who has made a pilgrimage to Mecca.
b. Often used as a form of address for one who has made such a pilgrimage.
2. Offensive Slang Used as a disparaging term for an Arab or Muslim.

Example 2 - Chino, Chino used in English capacity would be a kind of cotton fabric. However, when the word was used in South American/Spanish region, the word is considered Offensive (Chino means Chinese in Spanish, if used in Spanish capacity, it means someone looks like Chinese)

It won't show in most "Authoritative" Site.

As Per Oxford Dictionary

Chino- - definition of Chino- in English from the Oxford dictionary

Chino-
Pronunciation: /ˈtʃʌɪnəʊ/
Definition of Chino- in English:
combiningForm
Sino-.

As per Merriam Webster

Chino | Definition of chino by Merriam-Webster

chino


noun chi·no \ˈchē-(ˌ)nō, ˈshē-\
plural chinos
Definition of CHINO
1
: a usually khaki cotton or synthetic-fiber twill of the type used for military uniforms
2
plural : an article of clothing made of chino

As per Collins Dictionary

Definition of “chino” | Collins English Dictionary

Definitions
noun
(plural) -nos

1. 
   
   
   • (US) a durable cotton twill cloth

Word Origin
C20: from American Spanish, of obscure origin
Sino-

As Per American Heritage

American Heritage Dictionary Entry: Chino

(chēnō)
Share:
A city of southern California east of Los Angeles. It is the site of the California Institution for Men (opened 1941), a state prison.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition copyright ©2015 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.

(chēnō, shē-)
Share: Tweet
n.pl. chi·nos
1. A coarse twilled cotton fabric used for uniforms and sometimes work or sports clothes.
2. chinosPants made of a coarse twilled cotton.
[American Spanish, mestizo, yellowish (from its original tan color), probably fromSpanishchino, Chinese, fromChina, China.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition copyright ©2015 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.

However, as per Dictionary.com, they are offensive

Chino | Define Chino at Dictionary.com

[chee-noh] /ˈtʃi noʊ/
Spell Syllables
noun, plural chinos. Sometimes Disparaging and Offensive.
1.
Chicano.
Origin Expand
< Mexican Spanish: person of mixed ancestry, usually black and American Indian; further etymology disputed

Again, my point being, there are no "Standard" amongst the so called "Authoritative" Dictionary. If you bother to look at Macquarie Dictionary and as another Vietnamese member pointed out it was listed as offensive in Britannica Encyclopaedia and many other source.

placing the blame on me for being Ignorant (Well...........) does not make the word less offensive then it already are. This is just you being in denial....

And I repeat this again:

"Viet" = the "Viet" in "VIET-nam"
Cong = Communists

Vietcong = Vietnamese Communists

Vietnam is a communist country

What is wrong with that?

Actually, no

Vietcong is NOT a direct translate from Vietnam Communist....

The word originally is Vietnamese Việt Cộng from - Việt Nam Cộng Sản

If you do a one-on-one translate from Vietnamese to English, it would be Viet-Common Not Vietnam Communist...

That is what you don't get....

 

[70U63]

It depend on where you came from, but people take this forum too seriously:
Coolie - we use this quite often in Malaysia, nothing offensive.
Cina - Cina in Malay means Chinese. Orang cina is chinese people, nothing offensive at all.

 

[Pandora]

Sometime I think, do Australians really live on this planet?

Just bcz a country doesn't get involved in every useless and pointless conflict doesn't mean they are Aliens. What does Australia has to gain by helping US in this matter?

 

[anon45]

who is more authoritative
the members or the dictionaries?

The funny thing with humans is that words often mean more than their actual definitions. There are subtle meanings depending on how they are used which often aren't present in a dictionary. For example, negro and yankee.

A dictionary gives you the meaning, it doesn't give you the history or the context of use.

again if we have members who complain that "communist China" is offensive to Chinese members here on pdf should you give -ve ratings to those who use "communist China" in their comments and to ban them as well?

Does the term 'communist China' have a history as a pejorative anywhere in the world?

I say this once again:

the dictionaries that I quoted are world reputable
how many of you look them up when you have doubts for unknown vocabulary or verbal meaning or description?

Members here on pdf, however senior or high ranking they are, vary very widely in qualities and as such we rely on reliable and creditable resources for definitive answers

refer to the first part of my response.

It is often set as the norm everywhere and PDF is not alone to ask for quotation of sources so as to back up arguments

I think I have done so fully and adequately

And people are just blind to have deleted my posts and given me -ve ratings

Ultimately this bears some resemblance to Muslims being offended by drawings of Mohammed. You don't see why your choice of words is considered offensive, and you view it as an attack on your right to being able to speak freely for challenging you to change it.

The thing is, i'm not arguing whether you have the right to do it, but ultimately why you don't, in good faith, use a different term (preferably just .Vietnamese), just to save yourself the hassle of this. Its ultimately your choice, but again, don't be surprised at cross words and negative ratings (though things would be different if you were getting threats of violence.)

 

[Aepsilons]

Same old pattern with the Chinese here. They want the freedom to be as insulting as they wish but not for everyone else. CDF went down the toilet and now PDF is heading there. Congratulations to the admin staff.

Censure those who persist on making racist comments, derogatory comments should NEVER be tolerated. Enabling racism and detractive behavior actually will not encourage high quality poster activity, but will only incite and attract poor quality racist trolls. The latter will destroy PDF's credibility and ruin @WebMaster 's hard work as well as the hard work by TTAs who actually do academic research to work and post articles on here.

Let us all get back to the subject matter. I think we have enabled elements to derail this thread for far too long.

My final post at this issue.

@Keel I don't know why you continue fighting. As I have stated before, a word appear in dictionary and a word being used as a slur have no relation. A normal word (i.e. non-insulting/disrespect) appear on Dictionary can be used as a slur. Dictionary only need to explain the word origin and the word form and usage, they are not responsibility to display whether or not a word can be used as slang or slur, especially if that word is not of English/Latin Origin. (Vietcong is not an English word). I will give you a list of example.

Example 1 Hajji - Normal word as a title given to Muslim after their Mecca Pilgram

As per Oxford Dictionary

haji - definition of haji in English from the Oxford dictionary



As per Merriam-Webster

Hajji | Definition of hajji by Merriam-Webster



As Per Dictionary.com

Hajji | Define Hajji at Dictionary.com



As Per Collins Dictionary

Definition of “hajji” | Collins English Dictionary



However, Hajji is extremely offensive when used in the US (to Muslim Immigrant) and in Iraq (to Iraqi Citizens)

So in American Heritage Dictionary, it would shown as a slur/offensive

American Heritage Dictionary Entry: Hajji




Example 2 - Chino, Chino used in English capacity would be a kind of cotton fabric. However, when the word was used in South American/Spanish region, the word is considered Offensive (Chino means Chinese in Spanish, if used in Spanish capacity, it means someone looks like Chinese)

It won't show in most "Authoritative" Site.

As Per Oxford Dictionary

Chino- - definition of Chino- in English from the Oxford dictionary



As per Merriam Webster

Chino | Definition of chino by Merriam-Webster



As per Collins Dictionary

Definition of “chino” | Collins English Dictionary



As Per American Heritage

American Heritage Dictionary Entry: Chino



However, as per Dictionary.com, they are offensive

Chino | Define Chino at Dictionary.com



Again, my point being, there are no "Standard" amongst the so called "Authoritative" Dictionary. If you bother to look at Macquarie Dictionary and as another Vietnamese member pointed out it was listed as offensive in Britannica Encyclopaedia and many other source.

placing the blame on me for being Ignorant (Well...........) does not make the word less offensive then it already are. This is just you being in denial....



Actually, no

Vietcong is NOT a direct translate from Vietnam Communist....

The word originally is Vietnamese Việt Cộng from - Việt Nam Cộng Sản

If you do a one-on-one translate from Vietnamese to English, it would be Viet-Common Not Vietnam Communist...

That is what you don't get....

Gary,

You defended yourself well. Let me encourage you to not to take insults to heart. As they say, my friend, don't throw your pearls. Let's get back to the thread subject matter. And I look forward to reading more of your military-related thread posts. You are one of the great contributors to this forum. Remember that.

 

[gambit]

Censure those who persist on making racist comments, derogatory comments should NEVER be tolerated. Enabling racism and detractive behavior actually will not encourage high quality poster activity, but will only incite and attract poor quality racist trolls. The latter will destroy PDF's credibility and ruin @WebMaster 's hard work as well as the hard work by TTAs who actually do academic research to work and post articles on here.

Look at it this way...

You have a pool of clean water. Then came bad contaminants. In order to get rid of the bad contaminants, you must introduce good contaminants, like detergents. But there will be a point where the attempt at cleaning becomes pointless, not fruitful, and eventually discouraging.

That is what is happening to PDF. You have a group that is bent in dirtying the clean water and they do it simply out of spite. I do not believe in censorship but when there is clear and present danger it is up to the authority to temporarily suspend the rules and mete out punishments to the demographic that is dirtying the clean water that everyone enjoys. The few Americans here contributed greatly to the overall theme of the forum from direct military service and even the forum old timers admitted so. What have the Chinese demographic contribute other than racial animosity as their main theme ?

 

[phancong]

Look at it this way...

You have a pool of clean water. Then came bad contaminants. In order to get rid of the bad contaminants, you must introduce good contaminants, like detergents. But there will be a point where the attempt at cleaning becomes pointless, not fruitful, and eventually discouraging.

That is what is happening to PDF. You have a group that is bent in dirtying the clean water and they do it simply out of spite. I do not believe in censorship but when there is clear and present danger it is up to the authority to temporarily suspend the rules and mete out punishments to the demographic that is dirtying the clean water that everyone enjoys. The few Americans here contributed greatly to the overall theme of the forum from direct military service and even the forum old timers admitted so. What have the Chinese demographic contribute other than racial animosity as their main theme ?

You are worse than the people you accuse of dirty up this site, maybe you should self ban so the future member can self monitor not to use racial slur on this site?

 

[EAsian]

Contribute greatly？The J guy seriously insulted me.He give thanks to the a post call chinese chicom and give multiple negative ratings to one word vietcong.You call this contribution？How ridiculous one can be？You are no different too.

Look at it this way...

You have a pool of clean water. Then came bad contaminants. In order to get rid of the bad contaminants, you must introduce good contaminants, like detergents. But there will be a point where the attempt at cleaning becomes pointless, not fruitful, and eventually discouraging.

That is what is happening to PDF. You have a group that is bent in dirtying the clean water and they do it simply out of spite. I do not believe in censorship but when there is clear and present danger it is up to the authority to temporarily suspend the rules and mete out punishments to the demographic that is dirtying the clean water that everyone enjoys. The few Americans here contributed greatly to the overall theme of the forum from direct military service and even the forum old timers admitted so. What have the Chinese demographic contribute other than racial animosity as their main theme ?

 

[Aepsilons]

Look at it this way...

You have a pool of clean water. Then came bad contaminants. In order to get rid of the bad contaminants, you must introduce good contaminants, like detergents. But there will be a point where the attempt at cleaning becomes pointless, not fruitful, and eventually discouraging.

That is what is happening to PDF. You have a group that is bent in dirtying the clean water and they do it simply out of spite. I do not believe in censorship but when there is clear and present danger it is up to the authority to temporarily suspend the rules and mete out punishments to the demographic that is dirtying the clean water that everyone enjoys. The few Americans here contributed greatly to the overall theme of the forum from direct military service and even the forum old timers admitted so. What have the Chinese demographic contribute other than racial animosity as their main theme ?

Sadly many of the high quality members (those who actually take the time to research and write up prospective data) are becoming dismayed by the outright lack of control of incites and vitriol hurled by reconstituted trolls. I know some 3-4 very high quality members who were active and now are in lurker status because of this.

In fact i can say that as a Japanese national and as one who has written hundreds of articles in PDF , spent hours in research and cross referencing , i value contributions on an academic and professional level. What i cannot understand is that some members still openly use very hurtful and unprofessional terminology like "J@p" or "Nip". Are we really in grade school here?

I do not value racist / derogatory post, the use of ethnic slurs, or any manner of terminology that is meant to instill emotional hurt to the other party. There is no room for such in professional debate, let alone academic discourse.

@WebMaster Sir, you know my position on this.

@waz , @Horus , Sirs --- you also know my position on this. I would love to contribute more to PDF, in fact i love to learn more about the various nationalities and defense spectrums here. At the same time, I do wish and fervently at that , that our moderation team take a more pro-active stance on rebuking and correcting racist posts from members who have the inclination and predilection to hit below the belt and regress to personal insults. Frankly, as a university instructor and as an academic --- the regression to active Libel is unproductive.


Sincerely,
Yours,
@Nihonjin1051

 

[Cossack25A1]

And I repeat this again:

"Viet" = the "Viet" in "VIET-nam"
Cong = Communists

Vietcong = Vietnamese Communists

Vietnam is a communist country

What is wrong with that?

So I guess you will NOT be offended if I call you "Chicom" because it means Chinese Communists, and you seem to be a supporter of the Mainland government.

 

[Aepsilons]

So I guess you will NOT be offended if I call you "Chicom" because it means Chinese Communists, and you seem to be a supporter of the Mainland government.

Cossacks, please do not engage in such a manner. I entreat you to not take up and adopt a behavior that is not worthy of honor. Please, and thank you.

 

[Kyle Sun]

You guys are having fun now.