Aurat March Official Twitter Account Condemns PTM Vile, Racist & Profane Leader Ali Wazir's Arrest

[Neurath]

Your understanding is unfortunately marred due to tunnel vision on this whole Aurat March fiasco. Broaden your scope and try to understand what exactly this demand for 'azadi' really is! Almost all of the women in this group/march are already very independent and 'azad'! It is this typical crowd found in private rave parties taking MDMA, speed, cocaine, guzzling down booze and changing sexual partners regularly - and this is in Pakistan! Had you moved around in these circles inside Pakistan, your understanding would have been quite different. Fortunately for us who live and have lived in Pakistan, we know them well!

Their demand is of a conservative majority to accept such behaviours and actions, and make all a cultural norm! Try to decipher that!

@jamahir Also what he is saying is totally true!
You do not know because you don't live here, but these women engage in some really obscene stuff. No laws apply on the Pakistani elite.

 

[bahadur]

1. Don't Pakistani members of PDF comment on Indian matters ? Do I complain ?

2. You call me an Indian Muslim yet do not consider that Islam is a transnational, pan-human ideology, so why should I restrain myself from talking about matters in Muslim-majority countries or indeed anywhere ?

3. In post# 20 I linked a song called Inqalab by the Pakistani progressive music band Laal. The song mentions the millions of bonded laborers in all of South Asia. The song's Pakistani makers, performers and inspirers were / are socialists and didn't believe in limiting themselves to Pakistani issues only. Socialism and Communism again are transnational, pan-human ideologies. Communism seeks to create a single progressive, advanced and just political, social and economic system for all of humanity. Also in post# 20 I quote the thoughts of an early Indian modern Muslim socialist who compared the desires of Islam and Marxism and found them uniting. Read that particular thread, the OP is an article by Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha.

4. About Indian Muslims being clueless about Pakistani affairs, we and I, may not be intimately knowledgeable about Pakistani day-to-day things but I do know about some broad and defining things, like the socialist activism in Pakistan from decades ago that I linked in my very post you quote. Or PM Imran's misplaced priorities that I quoted also in post# 20.



Yes, I am worried and on PDF I actively counter the lies and disinfo of RSS-sympathist members on PDF. Offline, I have a systematic plan for the next ten years.

And at the moment I live in the Deccan where hopefully I won't soon see Delhi-style pogrom.



Which authentic movements ?



OK I found out that you were talking of Ali Wazir who seems to be a socialist activist. I found this article on him :

Your understanding is unfortunately marred due to tunnel vision on this whole Aurat March fiasco. Broaden your scope and try to understand what exactly this demand for 'azadi' really is! Almost all of the women in this group/march are already very independent and 'azad'! It is this typical crowd found in private rave parties taking MDMA, speed, cocaine, guzzling down booze and changing sexual partners regularly - and this is in Pakistan! Had you moved around in these circles inside Pakistan, your understanding would have been quite different. Fortunately for us who live and have lived in Pakistan, we know them well!

Their demand is of a conservative majority to accept such behaviours and actions, and make all a cultural norm! Try to decipher that!



I have been to India and I have interacted with a lot of Muslim and Hindu Indians! Hindutva was my last neighbour in UK!



Demands of muslims (men and women) should be for the rights given in Islam. And Islam is not the sectarian man made versions majority of Pakistan and Indian muslims follow!

Indian hindu or muslim are welcome here till they abuse india and hindus , once you try to point finger over mulla culture of pakistan , you become an enemy .

@jamahir Also what he is saying is totally true!
You do not know because you don't live here, but these women engage in some really obscene stuff. No laws apply on the Pakistani elite.

wow
pakistani know all about india though they live in pakistan , but we indians do not know about pakistan .

 

[jamahir]

I've understood your point

Thank you.

and I'll tell you what the case actually is,

OK.

There's nothing wrong in speaking up for women's rights. Nobody will say anything about that.

But the problem is when you have different objectives while hiding behind an agenda.
What does women rights have anything to do with Ali Wazir, a racist, ethnofacist who was arrested. Why the heck does Aurat March have anything to do with supporting him? At one side you say that capitalism bad, socialism good, equality good and then you sit here appreciating the Aurat March for supporting an absolute ethnofacist? That is where the hypocrisy is.

If Ali Wazir is really an ethnofascist ( like the Hindutvadis in India ) then he is in the wrong and should be duly punished or educated, but this article says differently :

Who is Ali Wazir?

Ali Wazir is a very special person. His personal ordeal best illustrates what prompted his demands. Ali Wazir was pursuing a degree in law at the turn of the century when his hometown, Wana, the headquarters of the south Waziristan agency, became the epicenter of global terrorism after a host of Taliban-allied groups sought shelter in the communities.

No doubt the terrorists had some individual local facilitators, but ultimately it was the state that failed to prevent them from using the territory. When his father, the chief of the Ahmadzai Wazir tribe, and other local leaders complained of their presence, government officials ignored and silenced them. Instead, Islamabad spent years denying the presence of any Afghan, Arab, or Central Asian militants.

By 2003, the militants had established a foothold in south and north Waziristan tribal agencies and were attempting to build a local emirate. Ali Wazir’s elder brother Farooq Wazir, a local political activist and youth leader, became the first victim of a long campaign in which thousands of Pashtun tribal leaders, activists, politicians, and clerics were killed with near absolute impunity. Their only crime was to question or oppose the presence of dangerous terrorists in their homeland.

In 2005, Ali Wazir was in prison when his father, brothers, cousins, and an uncle were killed in a single ambush. He was behind the bars because of the draconian colonial-era Frontier Crimes Regulations (FCR) law, that holds an entire tribe or region responsible for the crimes of an individual for any alleged crime committed in the territory.

Ali Wazir had committed no crime, never got a fair trial, and was not sentenced, yet he was prevented even from participating in the funerals for his family. In the subsequent years, six more members of his extended family were assassinated. The authorities have not even investigated these crimes let alone held anyone responsible.

Ali Wazir and his family faced economic ruin after all of the notable men in his family were eliminated. The government failed to prevent the militants from demolishing his family owned gas stations. They later used those bricks to build bathrooms, claiming they were munafiqin (hypocrites) so even the inanimate materials from his businesses were not appropriate to build proper buildings.

His family-owned apple and peach orchards in Wana were sprayed with poisonous chemicals, and tube wells were filled with dirt to force them to surrender to the forces of darkness.

In 2016, his family-owned market in Wana was dynamited after a bomb blast killed an army officer, which was an accident. They nevertheless destroyed their livelihoods under the FCR. After the demolition, the government prevented the local community — mostly members of Ahmadzai Wazir tribe — from collecting donations to help them. They were told it would set an unacceptable precedent because the government cannot let anyone help those it punishes.

So all together 16 members of his family, including his father, two brothers were killed by Taliban during these years.

Ali Wazir was one of the main leaders of Pashtun Tahafaz Movement. He recently toured the country and organised mass rallies in Lahore, Karachi, Peshawar and Swat. Lahore Left Front was the host of Lahore public meeting which was formally not permitted by the authorities. We were not allowed to campaign, no posters or stickers were allowed to be put up in the city. Ali Wazir and seven more were arrested a night before the public meeting and after a massive immediate response, they were released before the rally. Yet, over 10,000 participated in this public meeting.

In June this year, dozens of Pashtun Tahafuz Movement (PTM) supporters were injured and 10 were killed as a result of an attack on Ali Wazir by the “pro-government militants”, also known as the Peace Committee. However, the PTM sympathisers gathered to welcome Ali retaliated, upon which the militants fled, leaving Ali’s cousin and a Voice of America (VOA) journalist injured among others.

In an interview in April 2018, Ali Wazir said,

“The past few months have transformed my life. Amid the agonies I have endured and the threats, suspicion, and accusations I face, the love, support, and respect I receive is overwhelming. Since February, when we began protesting to draw attention to the suffering of ethnic Pashtuns — among the worst victims of terrorism — I have learned a lot about the potential of ordinary Pakistanis. Their thirst for change is inspiring and heralds a peaceful, prosperous future we must build for generations to come”.

During those difficult years, he didn’t lose faith in the mass movement and remained committed to politics of class struggle. He ran in parliamentary elections in 2008 and 2013.

In the 2013 general elections, his victory was changed to a defeat at gunpoint. He lost the election for just over 300 votes after the Taliban intimidated voters and tortured his supporters and campaign volunteers.

Amid the volcano of violence, thousands of civilians have disappeared, and thousands have fallen victim to extrajudicial killings. The leaders of PTM are profiled as suspected terrorists across the country, face humiliation at security check posts, and innocent civilians have to face violence during security sweeps and operations. As the world’s largest tribal society, the Pashtuns are known for their hospitality, commitment, and valour, yet they were falsely reduced to terrorist sympathisers despite the fact that they are their worst victims.

Ali Wazir belongs to The Struggle, a Pakistani Marxist organization that has joined the Lahore Left Front, a united platform of several Left groups and parties. However, the Lahore Left Front has organised some mass activities where Ali Wazir participated.

The general election of 2018 was the most rigged elections in the history of Pakistan. The society has pushed further to the right with Imran Khan’s Pakistan Tehreek e Insaaf (PTI) coming to power. Imran Khan called Ali Wazir prior to the elections and offered him PTI nomination from the area which Ali politely refused. However, such respect for Ali Wazir Imran Khan had that that he told him that in any case, “we will not put up our candidate against you”.

Prior to the general elections, a wholesale rigging took place on the behest of the establishment. PML(N) candidates were threatened, forced to change loyalties and so on. The PTI had open support from most of the state institutions.

In this background when a more Right-wing party PTI, than the previous ruling party PML(N), has come to power, a Marxist in parliament would be a breath of fresh air.

Although other Left groups also contested including Awami Workers Party (AWP) and had launched tremendous election campaigns, however, the election campaign of Ali Wazir had some special characteristics. He addressed few public meetings every day, went door to door with his meagre resources. Thousands cheered him at all times. We were all sure that he will win but were afraid of any incident that could cancel the elections from his constituency.

Ali Wazir has opened the gates for the entire Left. He is loved by most of the social activists, a sober person who is always down to earth in his presentation in workers meeting but speaks like a lion when he is addressing the ruling class. A fearless class fighter who has emerged as one of the most respected Left leaders in recent working-class history.

So he seems not to be an ethnofascist but more a citizen wronged by the State and also by the Taliban whose many members will be Pashtuns which is what Ali Wazir himself is. More tragic for him is that he is a Socialist and him being that naturally makes him support Aurat March.

Aurat March is okay if it demands for rights but not okay if it is getting involved in politics.

If some progressive political leaders exist it is automatic of them to support Aurat March.

It is just like BLM supporting the democrats when they brought up the laws decades ago that affect black people.

Sorry can you please elaborate this comparison ?

I would enter whatever thread I want to as long as I am not a delusional moron like you whose ideals are some dead dictators like qaddafi

OK, aspiring mullah mob-lyncher.

 

[jamahir]

@jamahir Also what he is saying is totally true!
You do not know because you don't live here, but these women engage in some really obscene stuff. No laws apply on the Pakistani elite.

Please read post# 41. My reply to him on that.

 

[jamahir]

Some voices and scenes from Aurat March, including interview of Ali Wazir.

Towards the end :

"Wahan se patthar aa rahe hain"
"Mullah-gardi hai hai"
"Mullah-gardi murdabad"

The vid :

 

[Neurath]

Please read post# 41. My reply to him on that.

Your reply to him didn't make sense. What the BJP guy says doesn't matter at all. In Pakistan the case is different. You don't have an idea about these people because you do not live here.

Thank you.



OK.

If Ali Wazir is really an ethnofascist ( like the Hindutvadis in India ) then he is in the wrong and should be duly punished or educated, but this article says differently :
So he seems not to be an ethnofascist but more a citizen wronged by the State and also by the Taliban whose many members will be Pashtuns which is what Ali Wazir himself is. More tragic for him is that he is a Socialist and him being that naturally makes him support Aurat March.
If some progressive political leaders exist it is automatic of them to support Aurat March.
Sorry can you please elaborate this comparison ?
OK, aspiring mullah lyncher-mobber.

Your article doesn't matter here mate. He can be a marxist, I don't care but he's an ethnofacist at the same time.

 

[jamahir]

What the BJP guy says doesn't matter at all. In Pakistan the case is different.

How ?

You don't have an idea about these people because you do not live here.

As I have been saying I get the general idea, say through the Aurat March vid I posted in post# 50.

 

[Neurath]

How ?
As I have been saying I get the general idea, say through the Aurat March vid I posted in post# 50.

bhai aap rehne do
you dont know a thing and ur only source is new articles
you dont live here that is why you wont understand what aurat march is nor what is wrong with ali wazir
he's literally send he'll tie the necks of armymen and routinely says racial slurs against punjabis but u know hes a socialist

 

[jamahir]

Your article doesn't matter here mate. He can be a marxist, I don't care but he's an ethnofacist at the same time.

He may be an ethnofascist and racist, and he is being wrong in that, but can you link me to articles or vids which prove that ?

bhai aap rehne do
you dont know a thing and ur only source is new articles
you dont live here that is why you wont understand what aurat march is nor what is wrong with ali wazir

Sorry but that's incorrect logic. So you living in Pakistan don't want the right to comment on say American matters ?

And what is the entire purpose of journalism then ?

 

[Verve]

Sorry but your description of Aurat Marchers is similar to that used by a BJP leader against the progressive, Left students of JNU university in Delhi in 2016. He said :

And why did he and his associates say this ? It was to sabotage and demonize these progressive students who voiced struggle slogans and agitated ( like the Aurat March women and men ) against the extremely capitalist and regressive socio-economic structure of India. The slogans were like :

​

Brahmanvad se azadi ( Freedom from Brahminical tyranny )​

Poonjivad se azadi ( Freedom from Capitalism )​

Jaativad se azadi ( Freedom from Hindu Casteist oppression )​

Bhukmari se azadi ( Freedom from hunger )​

Manuvad se azadi ( Freedom from the ideas of that anti-human, few-thousand-years-old Hinduvatdi work Manusmriti )​

​

Is this azadi slogan wrong ? That BJP leader was angry because these students were voicing against the anti-human, regressive and oppressive ideas that he and his associates promote and follow.

Similarly some people in Pakistan are angry with the azadi slogans of the Aurat Marchers because these women want azadi from some wrong things in Pakistani society. I found the below poster from that march. The keywords for the Google search to get this poster were "Aurat March obscene poster". What is obscene about it ? In fact it's a wonderful poster :

And then the rightmost poster in the below pic is also good because it speaks against the hypocrisy of some Pakistanis :

It may be that a tiny minority of these women attend rave parties like you described but most of these women simply want justice, harmony and real progress. Are they wrong in desiring this harmony ? In demonizing these women you should not join ranks with the anti-human mullahs like some in India joined hands with the anti-human Hindutvadis against the progressive students of JNU.

Please read again the demonization of Arooj Aurangzeb in Pakistan.



So that's your experience but that wasn't my point.

My point was I am not complaining about Pakistanis on PDF discussing matters in India or about India.



Sure, like Muslim men and women should speak against the practice of honor killing which is not promoted in True Islam at all.

But Muslim men and women should also speak for Muslims to adopt modern progressive thought like land / estate and means of production to become socially owned, a Commons, instead of the Islamic system of those things remaining private. This will solve lot of unnecessary court cases and disagreements and even avoid violence.



Agreed.

Shame that you drew parallels to a fascist Hindu government in an attempt to prove that you have sufficient knowledge about aurat march!

I'm all for rights of everyone as per Islam. Rules are set by The Almighty but if you and other muslims want to or break them under the cover of 'being progressive' then don't expect others to agree with you that breaking the rules should be the norm.

You may wish to end up in hell for breaking the rules, don't expect others to give approvals and land in hell alongside you.

 

[jamahir]

'm all for rights of everyone as per Islam.

Can you please elaborate "as per Islam" because I can present a recent case from Afghanistan ?

You may wish to end up in hell for breaking the rules, don't expect others to give approvals and land in hell alongside you.

Connecting that chain of thought here is the Google result for the word "Communism" :

Communism is a philosophical, social, political and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money and the state. Wikipedia

So propagating wonderful, humane ideas like no more social classes ( rich, poor and middle ) and eradication of the traditional money system should land me in Hell ? What rules am I breaking here ?

 

[Verve]

Can you please elaborate "as per Islam" because I can present a recent case from Afghanistan ?


Connecting that chain of thought here is the Google result for the word "Communism" :

So wonderful things like no more social classes ( rich, poor and middle ) and eradication of the traditional money system and the State should land me in Hell ? What rules am I breaking here ?

Now you are bringing in Afghanistan!!

It's going off topic. Start another thread if mods permit one on Islam and I will respond accordingly.

 

[jamahir]

Now you are bringing in Afghanistan!!

It's going off topic. Start another thread if mods permit one on Islam and I will respond accordingly.

Below is such a thread of mine from 2016. The OP is lengthy but read it, read the posts of other members too and we can continue discussion there :

the comfortable muslims of yesteryears and the pious muslims of now

Islamic Socialism: A history from left to right Nadeem F. Paracha — Published Feb 21, 2013 07:40am Between the 1950s and early 1970s, a powerful ideology in the Muslim world galvanised itself from the minds and fringes of modern Islamic intellectualism and made its way into the mainstream...

defence.pk

 

[Verve]

Can you please elaborate "as per Islam" because I can present a recent case from Afghanistan ?


Connecting that chain of thought here is the Google result for the word "Communism" :

So propagating wonderful, humane ideas like no more social classes ( rich, poor and middle ) and eradication of the traditional money system should land me in Hell ? What rules am I breaking here ?

And we've had our share of communism. Bhutto the communist destroyed Pakistan's economy and then his terrorist communist sons attacked the state as well.

'Progressive' it was to the level that booze was openly sold and hippies were flocking to Pakistan in numbers!

 

[jamahir]

And we've had our share of communism.

No, Faiz Ahmed Faiz could not get to implement his understanding of Communism because he and his comrades were imprisoned for trying to enact a coup and bring about Communist / Socialist governance.

Bhutto the communist destroyed Pakistan's economy

How ?

And should we be fixated on "economy" ? As of 2019 India is the 5th largest economy in the world but has that made India a developed and advanced country with no socio-economic problems ? USA has enough economy power to invest 700+ billion dollars yearly into its military but there still are socio-economic problems there like of homelessness and non-affordable high-quality healthcare.

On the other hand Communist Cuba with its much smaller economy has free healthcare and education.

and then his terrorist communist sons attacked the state as well.

Their immediate desire was to avenge the execution of their father and their way was through revolutionary thought.

Why do you call them terrorist ? What about the jamaatis supported by Zia ?

Please read ZAB's granddaughter Fatima Bhutto's close take on this in her book Songs of Blood and Sword. And please read the PDF post I linked in post# 10.

'Progressive' it was to the level that booze was openly sold and hippies were flocking to Pakistan in numbers!

Well, booze and becoming a hippie haven was wrong but it certainly, from accounts I read, was an easier place for Pakistanis.

---

Please read post# 58 just above.