Attack on PNS Mehran Base - PAF Faisal Base

[T-Faz]

Well T-fazzy, not the Navy as a whole could be involved, but few Naval personnel just like pre 71'.
According to some Defence Analysts, the same thing has started to go once again. Search for the thread '1971 War - The Untold Story - EXPOSING Propanganda and the telling the truth' on the forum. It might make things clear why is it happening and the timings.

Regards.

Of course, we all agree that the terrorists have internal support.

Its not the entire institute but members within its ranks who support the terrorists.

 

[muse]

A chain of failures have led us here - but prime among them has to be the failure of the Pakistani armed forces -- it is their own who have trained and gotten trained, to destroy Jinnah's Pakistan and to replace it with something more arab --- but why have the armed forces been so lax in tackling this problem?? Well, friends, it was not always thought of as a "problem" for Pakistan


Arrested helper of militants had warned of PNS Mehran attack

Umar Cheema
Thursday, May 26, 2011

ISLAMABAD: A navy commando of Hakimulah Mehsud’s tribe posted at the PNS Mehran, who was arrested in January this year for his links with the Taliban and al-Qaeda affiliates, had then disclosed about the impending attack on the naval base.

He had also warned that oil depots and power grid stations were also on the hit list of the militants. An official privy to the details said the marine commando who was picked up following his involvement in suspicious activities, had informed about the plan of attack on PNS Mehran. He also predicted attacks on other naval installations.

No serious measures were taken to avert attack on this naval base. Pakistan Navy’s Directorate of Public Relations offered no comment when contacted for its version.According to the official source, the arrested individual belongs to South Waziristan agency and is of Mehsud tribe, which has produced Taliban leaders like Baitullah Mehsud, Qari Hussain, and Hakimullah Mehsud who have rocked Pakistan through bombing and attacks on strategically important posts.

Incidentally, the PNS Mehran attack has also been claimed by TTP to avenge the killing of Osama bin Laden, the al-Qaeda founder.

Besides attack on the PNS Mehran, credible intelligence was also available on the impending attack on GHQ six months before it was carried out but the army sat over the info.

The negligence on part of the intelligence community and security czars has encouraged the militants who have named the intelligence agencies as “sheep”. Other personnel of the armed services are dubbed as ‘goats’ by the militants, according to the communication record obtained through a USB flash drive and deciphered by the experts. The flash drive was recovered from the driver of an explosive-laden truck intercepted in Dera Ghazi Khan in April 2009, exactly six months before the GHQ attack.

The flash drive carried instructions for TTP affiliates in Punjab and elsewhere. While it advised the militants in Southern Punjab to go into hiding amid reports of possible crackdown, the flash drive also contained a blue print of attack on GHQ. It used the coded language of ‘sheep’ and ‘goats’. Upon deciphering these code words, it was found out that intelligence sleuths were dubbed as sheep and the armed forces personnel as goats.

 

[IceCold]

One of the biggest problems faced by this nation, these bloody Mullah bastards.

They were against the idea of Pakistan then, they are against it now.

Thats one side of the problem, there are many others for which we seem oblivious. For starters instead of owning up to the security lapse, navy is busy pointing fingers on the air force. Night goggles just don't fall out of the sky. Definitely some one provided them. These are all problems and we would have to address them simultaneously if we want to survive. Blaming the Mullahs alone won't help.

 

[mastaan]

One of the biggest problems faced by this nation, these bloody Mullah bastards.

They were against the idea of Pakistan then, they are against it now.

No mean intentions... i'd like to know more... Do public really support these extremist mullahs? if not, then why is GoP not reigning them in... We also face a similar problem, but in the last 2 years, government has started getting tough (albiet a lot still needs to be done) on terror of any color, but from what i read on internet, the soft corner towards these guys stays...

And, if you could direct me a source to read more about your second line... I was astonished to read something like as it sort of sounded like contrary to my belief... i thought these guys would have fukly supported the idea of a separate nation for Muslims...

 

[muse]

Do public really support these extremist mullahs?

Is that the right question?? Since when did these people ever have large scale support ? The important thing is that the army support them - and of course everybody else is scared - even in the armed forces, people have to be or appear to be supportive, there's a career to consider

 

[T-Faz]

Thats one side of the problem, there are many others for which we seem oblivious. For starters instead of owning up to the security lapse, navy is busy pointing fingers on the air force. Night goggles just don't fall out of the sky. Definitely some one provided them. These are all problems and we would have to address them simultaneously if we want to survive. Blaming the Mullahs alone won't help.

The security lapse occurred because of our incompetencies and the lack of effective security protocols in place.

Thus the blame game starts and the PN is pointing towards PAF which might be justifiable.

As for Night Goggles, they can be bought in any black market and are readily available.

These problems can be addressed by the nation and we have the capability to do so but not the resolve.

The biggest problem that we have is the spread of extremism amidst our country, this cancer is growing at an exceedingly high rate and needs to stopped, this is the main problem.

 

[T-Faz]

No mean intentions... i'd like to know more... Do public really support these extremist mullahs? if not, then why is GoP not reigning them in... We also face a similar problem, but in the last 2 years, government has started getting tough (albiet a lot still needs to be done) on terror of any color, but from what i read on internet, the soft corner towards these guys stays...

They have substantial support amongst many in this nation and the Gov is scared of facing them because of religion.

And, if you could direct me a source to read more about your second line... I was astonished to read something like as it sort of sounded like contrary to my belief... i thought these guys would have fukly supported the idea of a separate nation for Muslims...

Its well known that the religious clergy of British India opposed Pakistan bitterly, they labelled Pakistan 'NaPakistan' and Jinnah 'Kafir-e-Azam'.

Here is a good article covering the opposition.

At the time when Jinnah was spearheading the movement for Pakistan, the religious right, and more specifically the Majlis-i-Ahrar and the Jamaat-e-Islami founder Maulana Maududi, were vociferous opponents of the concept of Pakistan. On March 3, 1940, the working committee of the Majlis-i-Ahrar met in Delhi and reportedly passed a resolution disapproving the Pakistan plan and in some subsequent speeches, the Ahrar leaders reportedly dubbed Pakistan as ‘palidistan’. Maulana Mazhar Ali Azhar, an Ahrar leader, appealed to the people not to be misled by the slogans for Pakistan and, on other occasions, even referred to Jinnah as Kafir-i-Azam.

Maulana Maududi was also hand in hand with the Ahrar in opposing Jinnah’s Pakistan. Maududi is reported to have stated that “Pakistan is a fool’s paradise and an infidel state of Muslims” and that “the Muslim migrants are deserters and cowards, who fought a national battle, but when the time came to pay the price, they took the path of escape”. The Maulana, as well as the Ahrar, felt that Jinnah’s idea of Pakistan was a territorial anomaly which went against the Islamic principle of universal brotherhood and, therefore, was against the injunctions of Islam.

Jinnah and the religious right – The Express Tribune

Here is another good post which outlines the opposition with references.

Chagatai Khan: Mawdudi, Jamat-e-Islami & Deobandis had Opposed Pakistan's Creation.

 

[fatman17]

ANALYSIS: PAKISTAN MARITIME SURVEILLANCE SUFFERS SETBACK

As Western defence officials have said, the halving of Pakistan Navy's P-3C fleet will seriously undermine its maritime capabilities.

The navy's primary concern is the prospect of an Indian Navy blockade of its naval bases or the commercial harbour at Port Qasim in Karachi. To prevent such an eventuality, the navy has been using its P-3Cs for airborne maritime patrol in littoral and deep-water environments and has also demonstrated the aircraft's anti-ship missile capabilities through live firings of Exocet 39 and Harpoon missiles.

Pakistan will now also be less able to monitor its waters to prevent militants from launching seaborne attacks on India - a vulnerability for which Pakistan was heavily criticised for in the wake of the 2008 Mumbai attack.

The loss of the Orions is especially painful because the navy has historically been the most neglected and smallest of the armed services and has only recently benefited from a series of new procurement programmes. Major acquisitions - highlighted by the ongoing delivery of eight new P-3Cs from the United States and four new Zulfiqar-class (F-22P) frigates from China - are intended to bolster the navy's confidence as well as its reputation. The attack on PNS Mehran has thus dealt the navy a serious psychological setback as well as a physical one.

PN Blinded until December 2012.

LAHORE: The Pakistan Navy stands partially blinded till December this year after the destruction of two Orions (P-3C) at the PNS Mehran base in Karachi on Sunday night, The News has learnt.

Sources in the Pakistan Navy revealed the defenders of seas’ capability to counter any threat from the sea had virtually come down to around 20 percent for the time being with three old Orions stationed in the US for routine repairs, check-up and upgrade. The Navy now has one Orion, a Fokker (upgraded with the required gadget for surveillance) and a Gulfstream jet (upgraded for the purpose). These three stations are not enough to guard the maritime frontiers of the country. The first of the three Orions sent for maintenance is expected to return in December this year. The second and the third Orion are expected to resume service in June and December next year.

With its 120 nautical-mile (222.24 km) radar and diverse detect and destroy capability, this $36 million aircraft is considered the backbone of Pakistan Navy. Apart from diverse surveillance capability, this aircraft has a broader envelope with the prowess to search and destroy all sea targets in its combat radius (18 hours non-stop flight with an onboard radar, which can detect the target at 360 degrees up to 222.24 kms) with its payload of depth chargers, Harpoon Missiles and Mak-46 torpedoes. In addition to this, these aircraft also assist in indirect or alternate attacks from other sea and air platforms with the help of its sophisticated target detection capability, which helps in searching and locking multiple targets in the sea as well as in the air.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Of course, we all agree that the terrorists have internal support.

Its not the entire institute but members within its ranks who support the terrorists.

I m more than convinced that there was inside help for this operation... however it is nt our own people in the lower ranks at least... giving that information... and its definitely not the Chinese either...

You have some big fish to hunt for this... Someone who remains undetected and can be a high ranking officer... and the Americans... they must be checked at all cost and stopped from roaming around our bases and GHQ as if it is some meena bazar...

 

[mastaan]

Is that the right question?? Since when did these people ever have large scale support ? The important thing is that the army support them - and of course everybody else is scared - even in the armed forces, people have to be or appear to be supportive, there's a career to consider

But then that makes it a spiral, which has a way to come in, but no way to get out... How can this dangerous link be broken ever? If young men, who join to serve their country get pushed in this direction to overtly/covertly support them, then they will naturally get conditioned to act that way in future... Someday the Political class has to take it in their hands, ruffle some feathers and try to straighten it out and it has to be the public who pushes them...

Not that it is a lot better on this side of the border, but on some things, you do see public pressure on the government to act or risk losing the next elections and that forces them to act... I mean you have ministers gettin arrested for 'corruption' and that is a first here (not that they never did it in the past) and all that because the politician is scared of that 1 vote from every individual and luckily, this time it is not because of religion or region... It is about national interest and return in investment of the tax-payer... One joker is always scared that the public will vote in the other one if he doesn't 'show' some resolve... I am sure, the same tools are available to you too...

You may say this is not my concern, which will be true... But as a fellow internet junkie, i just want to understand that just how can these politicians and military class get away untouched even after allowing such disasters to happen at such senstive places?

 

[T-Faz]

I m more than convinced that there was inside help for this operation... however it is nt our own people giving that information... and its definitely not the Chinese either...

It wasn't the Americans as you are trying to hint here, there is no point in speculating and blaming others without any proof what so ever.

The Americans and other foreigners are kept under constant surveillance.

It was the extremists within the ranks who did it, that should be clear to all and one.

 

[mastaan]

They have substantial support amongst many in this nation and the Gov is scared of facing them because of religion.



Its well known that the religious clergy of British India opposed Pakistan bitterly, they labelled Pakistan 'NaPakistan' and Jinnah 'Kafir-e-Azam'.

Here is a good article covering the opposition.



Jinnah and the religious right – The Express Tribune

Here is another good post which outlines the opposition with references.

Chagatai Khan: Mawdudi, Jamat-e-Islami & Deobandis had Opposed Pakistan's Creation.

Thanks for the help and patience... There is not 'Thanks' tab in this post, else I would have marked it there... I will read up and get back if I need to understand some more... cheers!

 

[Comet]

I think this is the first time ever in Pakistani Armed forces when one department has accused other for incompetency so openly and officially. I see decline in discipline.

BTW, I don't buy any thing coming out of Navy Chief's mouth.

 

[Comet]

It wasn't the Americans as you are trying to hint here, there is no point in speculating and blaming others without any proof what so ever.

The Americans and other foreigners are kept under constant surveillance.

It was the extremists within the ranks who did it, that should be clear to all and one.

you do have proof of "extremists within the ranks" part, right?

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

It wasn't the Americans as you are trying to hint here, there is no point in speculating and blaming others without any proof what so ever.

The Americans and other foreigners are kept under constant surveillance.

It was the extremists within the ranks who did it, that should be clear to all and one.

Well then these extremists or whatever you call them have to be found and punished...

and more importantly... our entire conduct around the WOT has to change... the implications of such a thing are very very bad... This is today, what tomorrow? Open rebellion? ...and shame on those who attack their own people in the name of Islam... whatever happened to restrain, patience, being just even when others wrong you?? Is nt that the teachings of Islam?

and in all of this the fools have weakened Pakistan and strengthened our enemies....

I would still not let go of the Americans so easily... I would go after those who are monitoring the Americans as well...

and if our military does not learn from this experience then they should fear the day when ordinary people start celebrating events like this to see their own Army humiliated... This will happen I warn you all until we separate ourselves from the parasite called America...