At least 11 coal miners shot dead in Balochistan's Mach area after being kidnapped

[H!TchHiker]

It seems indian intelleigence is better as they always seems to hit somewhere and we keep saying that they are doing this....it simply means our failure nothing else

 

[Areesh]

BS argument. Don't fall for this crap. Let me tell you why:

1.) We pursued our nuclear program even though we knew it meant crippling sanctions (just like today we have FATF, IMF debt, etc.) We weren't some economic superpower back then either.
Under your logic, we should have said: "Oh, we can't pursue the atomic bomb as it will result in sanctions and other diplomatic complications and we are already a weak country economically --- let's just hope India suddenly becomes a saint and we can live happily ever after!"

2.) The whole point of a good intel agency is that it provides creative and deniable solutions when a country has its back against the wall. Where are those solutions? EXCUSES are the domain of petty politicians, not of offensive black ops units!

3.) Weak economy or not, we need to have a STRONG deterrent against Indian terrorism. Nukes provide deterrence against a large-scale invasion. What do we do about attacks through proxies and destabilization? The only option is to return the favor. If our current capabilities aren't good enough to do this without invoking the wrath of FATF, etc., then we need to build those capabilities before putting money in any other military purchases!

@Areesh

Exactly. These are all excuses for doing nothing and for cowardice. No economy is reason enough when your national security is in danger. We are losing precious men both soldiers and civilians and without doing much harm to enemy in return. We are more interested in getting pat on the back from Americans and White Europeans than saving and securing our country

The story of cowardice that started after 9/11 is continuing till today. General Bajwa and Imran Khan have failed to take this war towards final conclusion. Our establishment is okay with using civilians and soldiers as cannon fodder in hope that Taliban would come back to Kabul and everything would be okay eventually. This is not how countries work. Just relying on hopes. They protect their own people at any cost and make enemy pay for its crimes.

 

[AgnosticIndian]

Someone here was right that insurgencies and terrorism emerging from it don't have much to do with economy/development etc. Just look at Ireland and the Troubles. So much violence near Northern Ireland/RoI border. No foreign power backed anything. Many civilians died too, for abstract things like "Irish republicanism/Irish reunification/Unionism". These things don't need millitary solutions/kill all of them mentality. Thatcher tried that and failed. These things need a political solution, like the Good Friday agreement. Another example is Mizo insurgency. Indian Air Force bombed Aizwal, the only incident of IAF bombing a city of our own. Did it achieve anything? No. What ended the Mizo insurgency was a political solution. Look it up. Other states where political solution wasn't achieved are still troubled. Many people dismiss sectarianism as "fringe elements" but the thing is that if you ignore the fringe, it won't remain fringe for very long. You reap what you sow. I'm sure many people would have experienced sectarian discrimination even in their own personal life. So, my recommendation would be to stop blaming "foreign elements" and work on a political solution. India too tries to blame Pakistan for Kashmir and Khalistan insurgencies, and it's true that many of those people had Pakistan connection. But it's very stupid for the Indian to deny that it's own stupidity in not handling them better. And that's my 2 cents.

 

[Bouncer]

Their sponsors and backers are being hit everywhere...

Afghanistan is a sovereign country.... Crossing borders on hot pursuit operations is not a norm yet...

No capacity issues...

Regarding hot pursuit, why not sir? I mean what is the cost of this escalation in today's world? International backlash? Please pardon my ignorance.

 

[HAIDER]

Who said there is no ISIS in Pakistan ... here is the proof..this all garbage is coming from . They are active since 2015

Here is detail documentary ..

ISIS in Afghanistan | FRONTLINE

Watch FRONTLINE's documentary on how ISIS gained a foothold in Afghanistan, and how they plan to train a new generation of jihadists.

www.pbs.org

 

[khansaheeb]

Thank you for the kind words mate. I always knew that RAW is the best intelligence agency in south asia

You are taking the pis$ aren't you?

 

[Cliftonite]

ISIS exists in failed states like Syria or Iraq where there is no writ of state.

How does it exist in Balochistan? It's a worthy question to ask.

Balochistan has long been treated as some backwaters, almost like a colony. You can keep doing operations to no end. But unless you incorporate it as a running part of Pakistan, you are not getting anywhere. Balochistan needs cities, roads, tourist hotels, railway connections and ports.

 

[El Sidd]

Okay. Just like there was no TTP in Pakistan until it was in our face attacks every single week.

Government of Pakistan and its security apparatus should know better than both of us.

Everybody knows its the most fashionable brand these days with high propaganda value.

Sadly Soleimani is no more otherwise he would be happy to have heard this.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

ISIS exists in failed states like Syria or Iraq where there is no writ of state.

How does it exist in Balochistan? It's a worthy question to ask.

Balochistan has long been treated as some backwaters, almost like a colony. You can keep doing operations to no end. But unless you incorporate it as a running part of Pakistan, you are not getting anywhere. Balochistan needs cities, roads, tourist hotels, railway connections and ports.

Balochistan is what, about 40% of Pakistani territory and extremely sparsely populated?

How are you going to have more and growing cities, tourism etc without people from across Pakistan visiting and settling in Balochistan?

Why would people settle or visit Balochistan when non-Baloch ethnic groups that have been living in Balochistan for generations are being massacred by terrorists supported by ethnic nationalists and Pakistan's liberals and leftists?

Of course the govt should continue to invest in development projects for the existing population of Balochistan as part of a series of measures to weaken the insurgency, but the kind of growth you are envisioning will not happen without the terrorism & ethnic nationalism (racism) supporting Pakistani leftists and liberal intellectuals being cut down to size, along with the terrorist groups they advocate for.

 

[Cliftonite]

Balochistan is what, about 40% of Pakistani territory and extremely sparsely populated?

How are you going to have more and growing cities, tourism etc without people from across Pakistan visiting and settling in Balochistan?

Why would people settle or visit Balochistan when non-Baloch ethnic groups that have been living in Balochistan for generations are being massacred by terrorists supported by ethnic nationalists and Pakistan's liberals and leftists?

That's why you need a political solution. Either go full blitzkrieg on them like USA colonizing its West Coast. Or come up with a political solution. These half assed operations won't achieve anything.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Regarding hot pursuit, why not sir? I mean what is the cost of this escalation in today's world? International backlash? Please pardon my ignorance.

No cost, no fear of backlash.... Let's keep it under wraps...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That's why you need a political solution. Either go full blitzkrieg on them like USA colonizing its West Coast. Or come up with a political solution. These half assed operations won't achieve anything.

"... the kind of growth you are envisioning will not happen without the terrorism & ethnic nationalism (racism) supporting Pakistani leftists and liberal intellectuals being cut down to size, along with the terrorist groups they advocate for. "

The above applies to both your full blitzkrieg and political solution options.

It's not like Pakistan has not attempted a political solution - but when the Baloch sardars like the terrorist Sardar Akbar Bugti benefit from a corrupt feudal sardar system under which they enslave, exploit and massacre their fellow tribesmen to retain power and the majority of the funds from the use of natural resources, they won't be interested in political solutions.

The funneling of large amounts of money from the Indians, Afghans, Iran and possibly even GCC countries like the UAE to terrorist groups will continue to incentivize terrorism, and our sold out leftist & liberal traitors will continue to ignore the foreign role in this insurgency and keep holding candlelight vigils for terrorists that they taught as professors at LUMS.

 

[Cliftonite]

"... the kind of growth you are envisioning will not happen without the terrorism & ethnic nationalism (racism) supporting Pakistani leftists and liberal intellectuals being cut down to size, along with the terrorist groups they advocate for. "

The above applies to both your full blitzkrieg and political solution options.

It's not like Pakistan has not attempted a political solution - but when the Baloch sardars like the terrorist Sardar Akbar Bugti benefit from a corrupt feudal sardar system under which they enslave, exploit and massacre their fellow tribesmen to retain power and the majority of the funds from the use of natural resources, they won't be interested in political solutions.

The funneling of large amounts of money from the Indians, Afghans, Iran and possibly even GCC countries like the UAE to terrorist groups will continue to incentivize terrorism, and our sold out leftist & liberal traitors will continue to ignore the foreign role in this insurgency and keep holding candlelight vigils for terrorists that they taught as professors at LUMS.

I love how we all accept the establishment's talking points hook line and sinker.

Leftists are just armchair analysts. Soyboys who only hold placards. They don't go out in fields and kill Punjabis. Nor do they provide weapons to Baloch terrorists. That happens through the Afghan border. Now you tell me why the Afghan border has not been manned in 73 years even though we've faced insurgents from there since the 1970s? Establishment ke apne khaanche hain obvio.

And the tribal warlords exist only in Central Balochistan. Makran coast does not have warlords. Independent candidates win from there. Why is there no development there?

The most easiest way I can think of to give Balochistan a sembleance of development is to extend Karachi westwards into the Hub and Lasbela district. No cost of laying infrastructure or railway lines. Infact, the development will pay for itself as in Karachi's citizens will happily buy land there like they do for DHA city and developers will build projects.

This ghissi pitti line that we are fed is bs. Why is that its only the poor Pakistani state that is faced with so many hurdles and conspiracies? First with East Pakistan, then Karachi, then Balochistan, then FATA. Bullshit. This broken system suits the ruling elite.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I love how we all accept the establishment's talking points hook line and sinker.

Leftists are just armchair analysts. Soyboys who only hold placards. They don't go out in fields and kill Punjabis. Nor do they provide weapons to Baloch terrorists. That happens through the Afghan border. Now you tell me why the Afghan border has not been manned in 73 years even though we've faced insurgents from there since the 1970s? Establishment ke apne khaanche hain obvio.

And the tribal warlords exist only in Central Balochistan. Makran coast does not have warlords. Independent candidates win from there. Why is there no development there?

The most easiest way I can think of to give Balochistan a sembleance of development is to extend Karachi westwards into the Hub and Lasbela district. No cost of laying infrastructure or railway lines. Infact, the development will pay for itself as in Karachi's citizens will happily buy land there like they do for DHA city and developers will build projects.

This ghissi pitti line that we are fed is bs. Why is that its only the poor Pakistani state that is faced with so many hurdles and conspiracies? First with East Pakistan, then Karachi, then Balochistan, then FATA. Bullshit. This broken system suits the ruling elite.

Please don't underestimate the impact of a (admittedly small) number of motivated individuals pushing an anti-State and pro racism (ethnic-nationalism) agenda. We've already seen the impact of the Indian disinformation network spanning 15 years. The world is no longer what it used to be in terms of influencing & inflaming opinion and creating 'fake realities' out of nothing.

You can't apply overwhelming force without care for the above because you will likely be (and this is already being done) cast as a government committing genocide and massacres of innocents, which brings its own repercussions due to the outsized influence these so called 'liberals & leftists' have internationally, amplified by the Indians, Americans and their allies.

Your point about lack of development is one that is applicable across most of Pakistan. South Punjab isn't necessarily much better in terms of development, and there have been multiple provincial governments in Balochistan led by many different political parties from across the political spectrum - was it not their responsibility to carry out development?

Were they prevented from carrying out development by the 'establishment'?

Did the Federal government not transfer money to the Balochistan provincial government? Did Balochistan not generate ANY revenues on its own?

The 18th Amendment, delegating significantly more powers and resources to the provincial governments, has been in place for over 10 years - what have the provincial governments in Balochistan accomplished in that time?

To paraphrase your comments, this ghissi phitti line about blaming the establishment for all the ills in Balochistan is BS. I love how so many people just accept the morally & ethically bankrupt Pakistani liberal and leftist lines about the 'Establishment', whilse said leftists and liberals openly support racists and terrorists & their agendas.

 

[Cliftonite]

Please don't underestimate the impact of a (admittedly small) number of motivated individuals pushing an anti-State and pro racism (ethnic-nationalism) agenda. We've already seen the impact of the Indian disinformation network spanning 15 years. The world is no longer what it used to be in terms of influencing & inflaming opinion and creating 'fake realities' out of nothing.

You can't apply overwhelming force without care for the above because you will likely be (and this is already being done) cast as a government committing genocide and massacres of innocents, which brings its own repercussions due to the outsized influence these so called 'liberals & leftists' have internationally, amplified by the Indians, Americans and their allies.

Your point about lack of development is one that is applicable across most of Pakistan. South Punjab isn't necessarily much better in terms of development, and there have been multiple provincial governments in Balochistan led by many different political parties from across the political spectrum - was it not their responsibility to carry out development?

Were they prevented from carrying out development by the 'establishment'?

Did the Federal government not transfer money to the Balochistan provincial government? Did Balochistan not generate ANY revenues on its own?

The 18th Amendment, delegating significantly more powers and resources to the provincial governments, has been in place for over 10 years - what have the provincial governments in Balochistan accomplished in that time?

To paraphrase your comments, this ghissi phitti line about blaming the establishment for all the ills in Balochistan is BS. I love how so many people just accept the morally & ethically bankrupt Pakistani liberal and leftist lines about the 'Establishment', whilse said leftists and liberals openly support racists and terrorists & their agendas.

There comes a point when you run out of outrage for "traitors." I can bitch out about BLA, MQM, PTM, TTP, SSP, LeJ. But eventually I will run out of outrage for foreign enemies and turn inwards. At one point, you want to ask the state what the fck are you doing? Why can't you get your shit together? What is it about Pakistan that it keeps spouting these traitors? I seriously believe this instability suits the elite.