What's new

Asymmetrical War: A Necessity For PN

guest9999

FULL MEMBER
Joined
Mar 3, 2019
Messages
214
Reaction score
2
I wanted to start a discussion thread on the pressing need for Pakistan Navy to adopt asymmetrical war-fighting strategy in Pakistani waters. The reason for this is obvious and plain for everyone to see. Naval fleet is non-existent, severely lacking firepower. It has eight or nine 3000-4000 ton frigates that lack firepower. There are no VLS for AAW on these ships. At most one ship may have eight missiles. In other words these ships are sitting targets for AShM and IN aircraft. Submarine fleet is aging & thinly stretched. The other ships aren't worth discussing.

The original expansion & upgrade plan for the armed forces, envisioned during Musharraf's rule, has been long since shelved. It doesn't look like Pakistan will have the budget or economy to pick that back up anytime soon either.

There are have been a few questionable purchases made recently, such as the OPV or Swift vessels. I can't imagine what role these ships are going to play against numerous IN destroyers loaded with Brahmos and other AShM? Highly doubt any meaningful ToT will come out of these. I believe ToT is misleading term to begin with.

Question arises, where does PN go from here?

The most pragmatic and efficient plan, is to go the asymmetrical route. I will list some points:

Instead of having few large & toothless ships, let's have a few hundred FAC (speed boats)

Each FAC (speed boat) should be equipped with a quad-launcher. PN can distribute these boats and spread them accordingly to different roles. Some of these boats can be devoted to
  • AAW (anti-air warfare) - Can hook up MANPADS like ANZA
  • AShM (anti-ship missile) - Load cruise missiles like
  • ASW (anti-submarine warfare)
  • land attack roles using cruise missiles
  • coastal invasion using SSG commandos
  • feel free to share more

The purposes these boats can be fitted for, are numerous. The cost involved to construct these boats, are incredibly cheap. Please read on the effectiveness of FAC in naval warfare. Israel has had success in its wars against much larger adversaries in similar naval scenarios. Iranian navy has gone this cheap, but effective route. Look at how other countries are hesitant to attack them in the Gulf. PN has its own setbacks to learn from, example - IN attack on Karachi in 1971 war.

The basis of this idea is bringing the "beehive to the bear". Read US naval strategies used during WWII against Japan. Japan's navy had larger more powerful ships, like the Musashi. US swarmed the ships with superior number & aircraft. I like to point out that naval warfare is really a battle of attrition when weapons fielded on both sides are comparable.

Even if PN acquires the Type-54A with the 32-cell VLS, four of these ships are not going to make much of a different in our context. They will be overwhelmed when IN saturates them with its AShM firepower.

PN can reverse this numerical advantage by fielding more FAC. They may be small speedboats, but armed with quad-launchers & AShM, they are no less dangerous. These boats will also be harder to target, in the sense that they are smaller and much faster. They can evade incoming missiles through fast maneuvering. These boats can "shoot & scoot". In other words, can fire their payload and run.

You can further mask these boats with camouflage color and you can even paint them with radar absorbing coating. Each boat can be equipped with ECM (electronic counter measures) and other jamming mechanisms.

Layer coastal points with underwater Mines
With distributed sensors and UUV (unmanned underwater vehicles), PN can establish "smart" use of underwater minefields. With sensor, mines can be controlled to detonate at the right time and targets.

This will greatly help PN avoid IN naval blockades.

Please read below:
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2014/august/mine-and-undersea-warfare-future

Mass Produce Midget Submarines
Each midget sub can carry SSG, fire torpedoes, lay mines. Having numerous midget subs with ability to fire torpedoes can have the same, if not better, effect of having 3 Agosta subs going against the IN.

I'm struggling to understand why PN only had 3 constructed? Why wait decades for larger subs that may not come? From what I understood, is that the COSMOS plant in Italy shut down. I see no reason why Pakistan can't slightly modify the original design and mass produce it locally.

Exploding Drones
PN can modify some FAC (speed boats) to become unmanned vehicles, with the purpose of swarming on & crashing into IN ships. These boats can be packed with explosives and guided to their targets via remote control. Imagine swarming each IN destroyer or frigate with 20 of these?

PN can also modify some midget subs to become UUV (unmanned underwater vehicles). These can be used for the same purpose as the boats above. Packed with explosives, a midget sub can sneak into the IN fleets and detonate. PN can swarm IN fleets with these underwater and with the unmanned speed boats, above water.

Missile Saturation
Here, I believe PN, needs to move away from designating Babur cruise missiles specifically for second-strike platform. Please visit the USN strikes conducted on Syrian facilities some time back. The USN saturated Syrian air defense with cruise missiles. Russian SAM's didn't even bother engaging. PN, in fact all the armed forces, need to be able to launch a numerically overwhelming amount of conventional Babur cruise missiles to saturate and overwhelm indian defenses. This strategy could be key to winning in a conflict with india. Imagine a volley of 150 Babur cruise missiles launched at IN fleet, or IAF and IA bases? Indian SAM batteries will be overwhelmed pretty quickly. Their aircraft could be wiped out with CEM (combined effect munitions) on some of these missiles.

I fail to see why Pakistan has not adopted the strategy of using superior missile numbers as an integral part of conventional warfare?

This is especially true, given the fact, that Pakistan produces these cruise missiles locally and wouldn't be limited by budget.

AShBM Carrier Killer
It seems the Chinese AShBM DF-21 missile has caused tremendous concern for aircraft carriers. USN strategy is now gearing toward increasing operating range of aircraft on the carriers as a means to stay safe. It would be a good idea for Pakistan to invest in building AShBM for the indian theatre. Pakistan could embark on a program to existing SRBM and develop AShBM variants to take down IN carriers and destroyers. Perhaps, some help from China can be sought in this regard, pertaining to radar seekers on warheads.

Please Feel Free to Pitch in More Ideas!
 
. .
Always remember a strong and large economy will buy you influence and allow you to fund your military. Find a way out of this current standoff (expected to last a few months, at least), and then carrying out ALL needed economic and political reforms to get the fastest economic growth is a must if Pakistan is to survive first the economic situation and then the long term military threat.

You have to remember the totality of the Asymmetric threat. Kinetic Defense equipment alone will not protect the nation in the long term.

 
.
Always remember a strong and large economy will buy you influence and allow you to fund your military. Find a way out of this current standoff (expected to last a few months, at least), and then carrying out ALL needed economic and political reforms to get the fastest economic growth is a must if Pakistan is to survive first the economic situation and then the long term military threat.

You have to remember the totality of the Asymmetric threat. Kinetic Defense equipment alone will not protect the nation in the long term.
Pakistan has already run out of time. The whole purpose of this episode is to prevent Pakistan from economically stabilizing. When India saw Imran Khan's government had stabilized the economy and start peace talks to end the Afghan War, it decided to act now and stop Pakistan.

These points I have listed, at least a few can be implemented almost immediately. It does not take much R&D or industrial ability to mass produce speed boats and equip them with missile launchers. Having the quantities of speed boats and missiles will make it extremely costly for the IN to attack Pakistan, let alone blockade it.

Pakistan will not have the required budgetary allocation for acquiring the "big guns" for the near foreseeable future. PTI will be lucky just to stabilize economy, increase the tax net, and reduce the debt a bit in the next five years. The type of shopping spree to acquire ships & other weapons that can pack a punch will come probably after seven years or so.
 
.
Pakistan has already run out of time. The whole purpose of this episode is to prevent Pakistan from economically stabilizing. When India saw Imran Khan's government had stabilized the economy and start peace talks to end the Afghan War, it decided to act now and stop Pakistan.

These points I have listed, at least a few can be implemented almost immediately. It does not take much R&D or industrial ability to mass produce speed boats and equip them with missile launchers. Having the quantities of speed boats and missiles will make it extremely costly for the IN to attack Pakistan, let alone blockade it.

Pakistan will not have the required budgetary allocation for acquiring the "big guns" for the near foreseeable future. PTI will be lucky just to stabilize economy, increase the tax net, and reduce the debt a bit in the next five years. The type of shopping spree to acquire ships & other weapons that can pack a punch will come probably after seven years or so.

The picture is not as dark as you have described. The current Military standoff is costing the nation more money then it can afford to waste, but if it doesn't escalate any further, the government can find ways to spread its narrative to the world and spin the story to its advantage; Naya Pakistan is a new partner and wants peaceful development while equally its defense products are value for money, and early money that way as well.

Yes the PTI government will have to really enforce the laws, reforms the laws, and focus on economic management over the next 4+ years left in this term. Yet, CPEC and especially FDI are the key to exploiting the relatively cheaper labor for the region, inefficient agricultural land, and potential vast mineral and hydrocarbon reserves. The markets of the China and the Middle East create a stable market for value added and high value food products, as well as manufacturing in the CPEC SEZ (potentially as part of Chinese manufacturing Supply chains) planned as part of CPEC.

PTI has to act like the middle managers and HR Department, while Chinese experts in the SEZ will transfer knowledge and act as upper management in conjunction with top Pakistani technical experts. The goal is to become more efficient at a faster rate then the debts and trade deficits that enable it catch up. Over time, if the SEZs can make products the local market needs, less will be imported, or so much will be produced that imports can keep growing.

A rapidly growing economy (properly taxed) can rescue the country from the investment debts being made.
 
.
The picture is not as dark as you have described. The current Military standoff is costing the nation more money then it can afford to waste, but if it doesn't escalate any further, the government can find ways to spread its narrative to the world and spin the story to its advantage; Naya Pakistan is a new partner and wants peaceful development while equally its defense products are value for money, and early money that way as well.

Yes the PTI government will have to really enforce the laws, reforms the laws, and focus on economic management over the next 4+ years left in this term. Yet, CPEC and especially FDI are the key to exploiting the relatively cheaper labor for the region, inefficient agricultural land, and potential vast mineral and hydrocarbon reserves. The markets of the China and the Middle East create a stable market for value added and high value food products, as well as manufacturing in the CPEC SEZ (potentially as part of Chinese manufacturing Supply chains) planned as part of CPEC.

PTI has to act like the middle managers and HR Department, while Chinese experts in the SEZ will transfer knowledge and act as upper management in conjunction with top Pakistani technical experts. The goal is to become more efficient at a faster rate then the debts and trade deficits that enable it catch up. Over time, if the SEZs can make products the local market needs, less will be imported, or so much will be produced that imports can keep growing.

A rapidly growing economy (properly taxed) can rescue the country from the investment debts being made.
What you are saying is great. Trust me, I'm glad PTI is in power. Although I strongly disagree with their hands-off approach with the corrupt judiciary and institutions.

However, I stress that India will not let this issue subside. They will attack again and with BJP in power, they literally do not understand nuclear weapons and the grave consequences involved. Indians will attack again and Pakistan may unfortunately be dragged into conflict. Pakistan must be prepared for a full-blown war and it must be armed to the teeth. Asymmetrical warfare will help it overcome the decades-worth of neglect towards its firepower.
 
.
What you are saying is great. Trust me, I'm glad PTI is in power. Although I strongly disagree with their hands-off approach with the corrupt judiciary and institutions.

However, I stress that India will not let this issue subside. They will attack again and with BJP in power, they literally do not understand nuclear weapons and the grave consequences involved. Indians will attack again and Pakistan may unfortunately be dragged into conflict. Pakistan must be prepared for a full-blown war and it must be armed to the teeth. Asymmetrical warfare will help it overcome the decades-worth of neglect towards its firepower.

Its not going to be easy, which is why the internal war on corruption needs to be fought as hard as the war against the TTP and other miscreants.

Britian took out loans just after World war 2 from the US to stabilize itself, and only finished paying the US back some 10 years ago. They started the NHS and other social services while also rebuild their industries. They were fighting the IRA and several military campaigns around the world in the mean time, but the fact their economy was developing means they found a way to balance their books and got on with it.

Pakistan will need to take actions against those that get in the way making the economy as efficient as possible, not just production but services and farming. Currently the average Pakistanis GDP per capita is only 80% of that of the average Indian.

Imran Khan can come out of this episode looking better internationally by publicly demanding India reduce its repression of the Kashmiri people (even if the Indians plan to do this themselves) but demand it as in Reagan's "Tear Down This Wall" (now that he know's there is some OIC international support). Equally Pakistan will enforce its law on any groups operating on its territory that may start tension causing situations (which Pakistan is already doing; especially helps the FATF case). The result is buying time and getting its borrowing interest rate lowered (then look for refinancing), to get the focus back on the economy with the goal of greater GDP per capita then Indians. If it can be achieved, and Pakistan will be a modern country, and rich enough to afford the defenses we have seen we need.

Pakistan will need to maintain a good image to attract FDI to modernize our agriculture and manufacturing, while growing access to markets.
 
.
Well we spot their submarine in our waters https://www.dawn.com/news/1467778/p...by-indian-submarine-to-enter-pakistani-waters
it is an interesting statement coming out from their media when our enemy spotted by PN.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...ore-attacks/article26436506.ece?homepage=true

Muslims must only wage war according to the principles of Allah's justice.
Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan.
Qur'an 4:76
Islam allows war in self-defence (Qur'an 22:39), to defend Islam (rather than to spread it), to protect those who have been removed from their homes by force because they are Muslims (Qur'an 22:40), and to protect the innocent who are being oppressed (Qur'an 4:75).
History had proven and will prove again that no so-called superpower of the world can not fight and win the war against ragged cloth Taliban without any military gears when Taliban are fighting in the path of Allah Mighty.
 
.
Just found an interesting article focusing on the US Military strategy to defeat A2/AD strategy of China/Russia, etc.

"Army Chief of Staff Gen. Mark A. Milley and other U.S. military leaders, such as now-retired Adm. Harry B. Harris, the former head of Pacific Command, have previously stated the need for land-based artillery to be able to sink ships at sea. "

This ties into another post I made on another thread:
Another approach to getting around the lack of firepower in the surface fleet, is to not rely upon them anymore. If the question is defense against IN CBG and more importantly, a naval blockade, then a defensive approach can be contained within Pakistan's territorial waters and EEZ.

Why not separate the launchers from ships? Instead of relying on ships to deliver AShM, cruise missiles, torpedoes, PN can instead, install launchers on land on the coasts. PN suffers from a lack of delivery vehicles like surface ships, but there is plenty of coast line available to build launchers for AShM, Babur LACM. This will enable PN to fire hundreds or thousands of missiles, saturate IN defenses like Barak SAMs, CIWS, etc. PN can even install launchers for Babur SLCM on the seabed, coral reefs, shallow waters of the coast, etc. These will be easy to hide and don't require purchasing ships.

Why waste money acquiring ships to deliver weapons, when PN can make launchers and install them anywhere, on land, containers, trucks, coast, etc.
Having land-based AShM will enable PN to build numerically superior inventory of missiles to counter IN fleets. PN lacks the number of ships/subs to saturate IN fleet defenses, but the equations changes once land-based systems come into effect!
 
.
I would say stealthy drones that can fire anti ship missiles or stand off munitions. The can be used against naval and merchant targets as well infrastructure on land. Indias oil, lng, and coal imports can be disrupted at little cost. They would make crossing the arabian sea to india, a death mission. Sorry Iran and GCC. Oil refineries and lng terminals could also be hit.

Coal would be more difficult to disrupt, since it comes from Australia or Indonesia, but not unreachable.
 
Last edited:
.
Navy needs Fighter Aircrafts.
Marines need AAV, Gunships, Helis, Artillery, Amphibious or MB Tanks.
Nation needs to pay taxes so that economy can be uplifted which in turn will increase our defence budget resulting in purchase of the things you mentioned!
 
.
Well Pakistan did not bother with Missile boats since 80's makes just 2-4 missile boats during that time and some recent boats with Azmat class missile ships

Pakistan's Navy's doctrine has not been taken seriously until recent times

Some improvements are due in next 10 years , based on steps taken 3-4 years ago
 
.
I would say stealthy drones that can fire anti ship missiles or stand off munitions. The can be used against naval and merchant targets as well infrastructure on land. Indias oil, lng, and coal imports can be disrupted at little cost. They would make crossing the arabian sea to india, a death mission. Sorry Iran and GCC. Oil refineries and lng terminals could also be hit.

Coal would be more difficult to disrupt, since it comes from Australia or Indonesia, but not unreachable.
I know there are some future plans to have UCAV for SEAD roles, destroy enemy SAM batteries.

Well Pakistan did not bother with Missile boats since 80's makes just 2-4 missile boats during that time and some recent boats with Azmat class missile ships

Pakistan's Navy's doctrine has not been taken seriously until recent times

Some improvements are due in next 10 years , based on steps taken 3-4 years ago
Problem is that this idea was not difficult to implement. Just take a look at Iran. It's cheap and easy to manufacture, but extremely cost-effective. It can even be done right now.
 
.
I don't believe this is possible with the openness of water, and the ability of modern radar, electronic warfare and counter-measures the element of surprise so needed in asymmetric warfare is not there in naval combat. The vast bulk of naval successful naval battles have been fought in a straight forward sense. Look at the battle of the Pacific in the Second World War as a case study.
Pakistan is better of strengthening its surface and sub-surface fleet into a credible force. Area denial can also play its part.
 
.
Commerce raiding..... Drones, Manned Aircraft, Subs, surface vessels, disguised cargo ships.

India will be a huge importer of oil, ng and coal. Taking out supply ships would be a huge strategic hit.

PN commerce warfare, could play a big role in the wider China v America fight. Usa's Indo-Pacific stance relays on Japan, S Korea, Tiawan, India and some smaller countries. All lack oil and NG that must be imported largely from the Gulf. The stronger PN could be a powerful ally for China.

Crossing the arabian sea with oil and ng would be very hard if PN doesn't want it.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom