Assorted pics

[no_name]

Some sort of wind tunnel testing, rumoured to be single engine J-13

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QqlF6nBGeVc/SguG0mMH0FI/AAAAAAAAB0w/fjpnYBoYqZI/s1600-h/1.jpg

Not too sure about authenticity of this one

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QqlF6nBGeVc/SguG0QqbHbI/AAAAAAAAB0o/XrO9ZFjxc08/s1600-h/2.jpg

A pic I came across

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QqlF6nBGeVc/StcXP0RxMgI/AAAAAAAAC9s/N3s0GRD6gXQ/s1600-h/2.jpg

Said to be initial round of design comparisons for new fighter between 601, 611 institutes.

Number shows relative comparison, I assume lower numbering is better. From left to right: mobility, maneuverability, high angle of attack performance, stealth performance, and something to do with climbing ability (words partially blocked)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_QqlF6nBGeVc/Sk50UuNm5bI/AAAAAAAACO4/mxcDbYMvVkc/s1600-h/1.jpg

Research institutes are looking into plasma stealth feasibility studies,
since maneuverability in air-to-air role is considered a more important requirement than stealth.

In the 9 circles, the proposed high-pressure arc air ionization Application Testing zone (Areas that are likely to compromise stealth)

"Due to the fact of the gap between the current H4B-A3-2 program and foreign active-duty 4-th generations fighter palne in the low detectability indexes, our research institute's topic of high-pressure arc air ionization application testing in some strong reflection zone is timely and necessary.This technology, once put into use, will enable our 4-th generations fighter plane to finally competitive with foreign active-duty ones..."

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QqlF6nBGeVc/SyeQSPayxWI/AAAAAAAADnQ/0GuywB6bVN0/s1600-h/1.jpg

regards

 

[maxx]

The first two may be an early model that eventually leads to the YF-23, or may be an upcoming UCAV for US military?

edit: found this http://www.windtunnels.arc.nasa.gov/40G2.html

 

[no_name]

I see, thanks for clearing up

 

[no_name]

If you look at the 4th pic and enlarged it you can barely make out chinese description, they are as follows (roughly):

611 institute H4B-A1 project
twin engine, control canards, full moving v tail, 360 degree thrust vectoring

611 institute H4B-A3 project
twin engine, lifting canards, full moving V tail, 360 degree thrust vectoring

601 institute H4A-A1 project
twin engine, tri-plane config, v tail(non-full moving), 360 degree thrust vectoring

601 institute H4A-B2 project
twin engine, many(complicated) control surfaces, no tail (i think), 2D thrust vectoring

and in the fifth picture the testing with plasma stealth was done on project

H4B-A3-2, which means it could be related to the second design in 4th pic by institute 611, probably with the 2 meaning second iteration/stage.

It looks like one 611 designs at least is undergoing testing and development. Personally I would like to see a Chengdu (611 - designer of J-10) design as I feel they are more promising and innovative.

regards

 

[no_name]

Judging from the scale of first design in 4th pic, the plane is comparable to F-22 in length and slightly narrower in width. It is somewhat smaller in dimension than a Su-27. Dunno about others but probably of similar size.

It also looks more slender than F-22, so internal storage space are likely to be smaller if reasonable range is to be designed for. It suggests of an aircraft with air-to-air role as its primary requirement.

 

[aimarraul]

If you look at the 4th pic and enlarged it you can barely make out chinese description, they are as follows (roughly):

611 institute H4B-A1 project
twin engine, control canards, full moving v tail, 360 degree thrust vectoring

611 institute H4B-A3 project
twin engine, lifting canards, full moving V tail, 360 degree thrust vectoring

601 institute H4A-A1 project
twin engine, tri-plane config, v tail(non-full moving), 360 degree thrust vectoring

601 institute H4A-B2 project
twin engine, many(complicated) control surfaces, no tail (i think), 2D thrust vectoring

and in the fifth picture the testing with plasma stealth was done on project

H4B-A3-2, which means it could be related to the second design in 4th pic by institute 611, probably with the 2 meaning second iteration/stage.

It looks like one 611 designs at least is undergoing testing and development. Personally I would like to see a Chengdu (611 - designer of J-10) design as I feel they are more promising and innovative.

regards

what's new？everyone knows that 601's design was rejected，the photo was even exposed on the internet
http://j.imagehost.org/view/0747/20091127_bce850aed2d6b6486070652D6M4m49dJ

remember :J-XX= modified J-10

 

[no_name]

^^^ Looks like the third design in pic 4

Well its news to me, because so far it's been friken hard to hear anything about Jxx and I like sexy jets. I am also interested in what possible designs are accepted, and had my fears like they might just re-package a 4th gen jet to be called 5th gen.

Were you meant to say modified J-10 is not good and lacks potential? It could be a big mold, and they might mold it through multiple stages. It looks like a radical change enough to me.

Actually If you look at the design appearances, its hard to argue how 601 designs are any more distinct from J-10 than 611 designs. And most likely there will still be cooperation from both on many details, like engines, avionics etc.

Off course it could just be another random pics by fanboys...but if just there's an if, a small if, an itsy-bitsy if that its real, I'd still like to hear about it.

regards

 

[no_name]

And also, alot of the things incorporated into the design have never been attempted before by chinese designers, so if they've actually made up their mind to achieve the specs and like the general said first flight is near (or already done(!?)) and 8 to 10 years to equip force, then isn't that a major achievement to be happy about?

Certainly more satisfying than hearing about WS-10 flaws all the time.

 

[dingyibvs]

So looks like the A3 is the chosen design, seems like stealth would be their primary concern then.

 

[no_name]

Or variations around that theme. In pic 5 it seems they've developed a forward swept canard, and it seems to bechanged to control rather than lift canard (because as seen in 4th pic maneuverability is its weak point, so some kind of trade-off balancing here), which explains the need for plasma stealth around the canards. But according to text it offers specs that exceeded what it was designed for.

Not sure exactly how plasma stealth works because havn't really read into them, but does this means that full sensor coverage like F-35 is not being considered, because incomming EM waves will be absorbed by these plasma generating devices.(or maybe make more use of infrared sensors)

Apparently the final design was frozen last july or august so a prototype may have already been made.


edit: PLA designers tends to be cautious and reactive rather than revolutionary, but personally if there is one area they need to make strides I think it should be 5th gen jets. And I think the top brass are also interested in making a serious effort into it.

 

[aimarraul]

Off course it could just be another random pics by fanboys...but if just there's an if, a small if, an itsy-bitsy if that its real, I'd still like to hear about it.

there is no if,it's fanboys' work.just imagine the twin engine J-10

 

[heavystorm]

Or variations around that theme. In pic 5 it seems they've developed a forward swept canard, and it seems to bechanged to control rather than lift canard (because as seen in 4th pic maneuverability is its weak point, so some kind of trade-off balancing here), which explains the need for plasma stealth around the canards. But according to text it offers specs that exceeded what it was designed for.

Not sure exactly how plasma stealth works because havn't really read into them, but does this means that full sensor coverage like F-35 is not being considered, because incomming EM waves will be absorbed by these plasma generating devices.(or maybe make more use of infrared sensors)

Apparently the final design was frozen last july or august so a prototype may have already been made.


edit: PLA designers tends to be cautious and reactive rather than revolutionary, but personally if there is one area they need to make strides I think it should be 5th gen jets. And I think the top brass are also interested in making a serious effort into it.

I can't see your pic, may be we can't link those foreign pages in China mainland.

 

[aimarraul]

I can't see your pic, may be we can't link those foreign pages in China mainland.

 

[topjumper]

So looks like the A3 is the chosen design, seems like stealth would be their primary concern then.

I think it's the other way round, the lower the number the higher the ranking out of the 4 designs. So in comparison design 3 gives the highest agility but lowest stealth.

I think I've seen all the 4 variations from cjdby before, rumors from there are that both institutes are still going for their own designs in parallel, if that's true it'd most likely be design 2 and 3 by the look of it. But in the end rumors are just rumors, we just have to buckle up and wait.

 

[heavystorm]

---Thank you very much! The fourth aircraft looks very "evil".