Assault Rifles v.s Battle Rifles

[Hakan]

Should Assault Rifles or Battle Rifles be standard issue? (We are not comparing specific weapons!!)

A battle rifle is a select fire or semi-automatic military service rifle that fires a full-power rifle cartridge, such as 7.62x51mm NATO.

SCAR-H (7.62x51mm)

An assault rifle is a selective fire rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine.

SCAR-L(5.56x45mm)

I am in support of battle rifles because:

1. They have longer range
2. A More Powerful Round
3. Can be used as an effective DMR if a scope is added
4. A militaries LMG's, sniper rifles, and standard issue rifles can all share the same ammunition.

@A1Kaid @Zarvan @sandy_3126 @Aeronaut @boomslang

 

[Skull and Bones]

I'm in favor of Assault rifles, because it is lighter and hence easy to carry.

Preferably smaller, ideal for clearing corners and move in tight spaces. And even if it provides an accuracy of 300-400 m, still enough to work as a marksman rifle in urban areas.

 

[GR!FF!N]

And even if it provides an accuracy of 300-400 m

Assault Rifle is preferred all over world because,in most cases,engagement happens within this range.see this....

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0...........2750.....-0.5.......0......0.....2469.....0
100.......2517.......0.......2.67..0.12 2068 0
200.......2301... -5.02...10.87 0.24 1728 0
300.......2096... -16.66..25.68 0.38 1434 0
400.......1903... -36.25..48.44 0.53 1182 0
500.......1721....-65.49..80.86 0.69 967 0

its data of Bullet drop of 7.62X51 round.as you can see,this round drops so much at 500m that shooter will have to be a sharp shooter to hit the target.its quite hard to hit from that distance.

 

[MilSpec]

The cool thing is Role of Firearms in combat keeps changing with the dynamics of the threat emergency.
In the ww1 trench to trench fighting , the engagement ranges were well over 250 yards and extended to 500 yards. These would mean month long engagements in open sight marksmanship duals over the trenches. WWII was a wake up call when the engagement ranges reduced drastically, engagement ranges differed from 50 yards to 250 yards, and thus we saw squads carrying the right weapon for right fight, with squads composed of Light machine guns, Battle rifle (bolt action) and SMG or a Carbine (Mi1 30 cal, Ppsh, MP)...

Evolution of the 21'st century small arms system:

With fully auto rifle configurations evolving in 7.62 x 51 caliber (FN FAL, M21, AR10,G3, SCAR, ), Some of these so called battle rifles have transitioned into DMR, Sniper, Lmg Duty too. Another aspect is blurring of lines between assault/infantry rifle and a Battle rifle with calibers like the 6.5SPC and 6.8 Grendel and to an extent high velocity cartridge like the 5.56x45.

Today a squad carrying SCAR-H, ACR 6.8 or M4-Carbine, along with a Barret - M82, or a MK46 will be able to hold it's own against any unit in realistic engagement scenarios.

Thus in my opinion in todays forces, Multicaliber platforms like the SCAR. ACR. M16/AR platform has blurred the line between a Assault Rifle - chambered in an intermediate cartridge and the battle rifle chambered in a full size rifle cartridge. We will see more and more platforms like the ACR, SCAR, ARX 160, AR platforms, in multicaliber performing the bulk of short-intermediate-long range (upto 800 yards) work in the future....

 

[nangyale]

Even in today's conflict it will depend on the environment that you find yourself in.
For close quarter and Urban warfare Assault Rifle is the best.
For mountainous area and open fields it's better to have a Battle Rifle.
So you need to take an Assault rifle going to Iraq and need a Battle rifle if you are a soldier heading for Afghanistan.

 

[Pakistani-nationalist]

So German rifle G-3 is a battle rifle right? And AK-47 is an assault rifle?

 

[Informant]

So German rifle G-3 is a battle rifle right? And AK-47 is an assault rifle?

Yup

 

[GURU DUTT]

why not take a full lenth battle rifle and give it a moduler (with veru high use polymer)and bull pup design with an 26" rifelled barrel and you have a assault cum battle rifle which is less than three feet in lenth and and less than 4.5 Kgs fully loaded weight(with 30X 7.62X 51mm round mag )

 

[Mighty Caty]

for standard issue, the lighter is better

it weight approximately 3.3 kg for 300 rounds 7.62 NATO round, while it only weighted about 1.3 Kg for 300 rounds of 5.56.

Plus the more powerful the round was will deal more damage to the barrel, so you probably need more replacement barrel for larger caliber rifle. With a few pound here and there, it will be another 5 to 10 pound extra before you know it. And anyone know what's the different between carrying 75 lbs pack on a march and carrying 85 lbs pack on the same march?

 

[GURU DUTT]

i dont personalli beleave in multi calliber and multi barrel platforms as its increases the wieght and work of an infantrry man on a ptrol

a 7.62 X 51 MM caliberred bull pup assault rifle with 24-26 " barrel and a damper iquipped shoulder stock is compact power ful and easily controlable option for any infantry man in any kind of situation in any battlefield scenario

i guess there should be onli single cartridge for ARMY be its the assult rifle or a MG or LMG

one for all and all for one

and to me 7.62 X 51 mm is the perfect answer

it is relativelly light , accurate and has a much better stopping power and any other small arm

 

[A1Kaid]

So German rifle G-3 is a battle rifle right? And AK-47 is an assault rifle?

G-3 is a battle rifle it is select fire (military version) and fires a full cartridge rifle round the 7.62x51mm, and AK-47 (if select fire) is an "assault rifle" and fires a 7.62x39mm intermediate caliber.

Though remember the definition of assault rifle and battle rifle.




"Assault Rifle: An assault rifle is a selective fire (selective between semi-automatic, fully automatic and/or burst fire) rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine."

"Battle Rifle: A battle rifle is a select fire or semi-automatic military service rifle that fires a full-power rifle cartridge, such as 7.62x51mm NATO."




(Definitions from Google and Wiki)


So if a civilian version of the AK-47 is only semi-auto it by definition is not an assault rifle it has to meet two conditions (select fire and intermediate cartridge). For a weapon to be a Battle Rifle it must also meet two conditions (Select Fire or Semi-Auto AND a full-power rifle cartridge).

 

[Hakan]

why not take a full lenth battle rifle and give it a moduler (with veru high use polymer)and bull pup design with an 26" rifelled barrel and you have a assault cum battle rifle which is less than three feet in lenth and and less than 4.5 Kgs fully loaded weight(with 30X 7.62X 51mm round mag )

Keltec RFB
Bull Pup 7.62x51


The RFB is a short-stroke gas piston operated semi-automatic rifle in 7.62 mm NATO caliber. It accepts standard metric FAL type magazines which work "drop free" and do not need to be tilted in. One 20 round magazine is included*. Barrels on current models are 18" long, with a chrome lined bore and chamber. The muzzle is threaded 5/8x24 TPI and comes equipped with our A2-style Flash Hider*. Longer barrel lengths of 24", 26" and 32" will be available in the future. All controls are fully ambidextrous; the reciprocating operating handle can be switched to either side. The trigger mechanism is second to no other Bullpup ever built and better than nearly all commercial semi-auto rifles. The safety disconnects the trigger and blocks the hammer action. A Mil-Spec Picatinny rail is attached rigidly to the barrel. No open sights are provided, allowing the user to select from the very best new optics and sight systems available. The RFB comes with a two point sling that can be easily configured to suit the user's preference. Available accessories include a free-floating, four-sided Picatinny forend, bipod mounts, a removable bayonet lug for use with NATO style bayonets including our own Folding Bayonet, and many more.

​

ARMSLIST - For Sale: KelTec RFB 7.62 / 308 Green Bullpup - Tactical Rifle

 

[MilSpec]

Keltec RFB
Bull Pup 7.62x51


The RFB is a short-stroke gas piston operated semi-automatic rifle in 7.62 mm NATO caliber. It accepts standard metric FAL type magazines which work "drop free" and do not need to be tilted in. One 20 round magazine is included*. Barrels on current models are 18" long, with a chrome lined bore and chamber. The muzzle is threaded 5/8x24 TPI and comes equipped with our A2-style Flash Hider*. Longer barrel lengths of 24", 26" and 32" will be available in the future. All controls are fully ambidextrous; the reciprocating operating handle can be switched to either side. The trigger mechanism is second to no other Bullpup ever built and better than nearly all commercial semi-auto rifles. The safety disconnects the trigger and blocks the hammer action. A Mil-Spec Picatinny rail is attached rigidly to the barrel. No open sights are provided, allowing the user to select from the very best new optics and sight systems available. The RFB comes with a two point sling that can be easily configured to suit the user's preference. Available accessories include a free-floating, four-sided Picatinny forend, bipod mounts, a removable bayonet lug for use with NATO style bayonets including our own Folding Bayonet, and many more.

​

ARMSLIST - For Sale: KelTec RFB 7.62 / 308 Green Bullpup - Tactical Rifle

It has horrible reliability and ergonomics judging by MiltaryFirearm channel review of the system.

 

[Hakan]

It has horrible reliability and ergonomics judging by MiltaryFirearm channel review of the system.

Either way the concept of the Kel Tec RFB is pretty cool. Do the issues have to do with how the round is ejected?

 

[MilSpec]

i dont personalli beleave in multi calliber and multi barrel platforms as its increases the wieght and work of an infantrry man on a ptrol

a 7.62 X 51 MM caliberred bull pup assault rifle with 24-26 " barrel and a damper iquipped shoulder stock is compact power ful and easily controlable option for any infantry man in any kind of situation in any battlefield scenario

i guess there should be onli single cartridge for ARMY be its the assult rifle or a MG or LMG

one for all and all for one

and to me 7.62 X 51 mm is the perfect answer

it is relativelly light , accurate and has a much better stopping power and any other small arm

I would respectfully disagree....


7.62 x 51 Nato - 25.5 gms
5.56 x 45 Nato - 11.9 gms
7.62 x 39 - 18.2 gms

If you are willing to carry half the round in your squad, then 7.62 x 51 sounds good, but I doubt any squad leader opting for that.

There no magic caliber, that is one fix for all problem,, right tool for the right engagement. Open Sight:
9mm 0-50 yard,OS
.223- 0-400 yards,OS
7.62 x 39 - 0- 250 yards OS
7.62x 51 Nato- 0-400 w/o scope upto 600 yard with with
7.62x54R- 0-800 yards with scope
6.5 SPC - 0- 500 yards OS (if you can spot the target at 500 yard)
6.8 Grendel 0-500 Yards OS (if you can spot the target at 500 yard)
.300 AAC Blackout - 0-250 yard
.300 Win mag - 0-w/o scope upto 400 yard, 800 yard yard with optics
0.338 Lapua Magnum - 0-1200 yards With scope

Either way the concept of the Kel Tec RFB is pretty cool. Do the issues have to do with how the round is ejected?

Yes, and loads of FTF and FTE's