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Assam violence death toll rises to 21, shoot-at-sight order issued

Wow whoever speaks against bigotry becomes terror supporters...:eek:

She has repeatedly gloated about the Mumbai terrorist attacks on this forum. Obviously you have not been following her. Just one example here.

See how she is gloating about terror.

Wow wow wow.....If thats plea or begging???Anyway in both ways you have come too far from being nuking to this level.That too in just 65 yrs.That tells something isnt it---ie the success.....If you are reduce the to this state with in 65 years then i wonder what will happen to you in 1000 years or when the movie completes the long trailer of which whole world saw in their living rooms for 60 hrs.
 
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I know what it means but there is a great twist in the Indian context,i want to discuss that.Figure it if you can.
 
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We CANNOT have an history written from a national perspective; that is an absolute betrayal of the task of an intellectual involved in academics. Nationalist views of history, or economics, or politics, is a political matter, not academic; it becomes those concoctions for which the Soviet Union became infamous.

Sorry for interdicting a reply to Vinod, but actually this part captures the jist of grouse many have with the Marxists.

Their single minded devotion NOT to write anything from a national perspective (here the national perspective becomes synonymous with the Indic perspective) is taken to an extreme level and it actually forces them to be intellectually dishonest and give it a non-populist, politically correct treatment even if the original event was nothing like it.

Coming back to topic -

Assam riots: 'Actual' reason of Bodo-Muslim violence is rooted in land - www.daily.bhaskar.com

Kokrajhar: The situation in violence-torn Assam continues to be tense as the death toll touched 44 but CM Tarun Gogoi claims the situation is 'improving'.

According to latest reports, more than 170,000 people have fled their homes since July 19 after fighting between indigenous Bodo tribes and Muslim settlers in Kokrajhar and Chirang. Security forces have been given shoot-on-sight orders by the Assam government to confront with any unexpected incident.

Also, a curfew has been imposed in the riot-hit areas.Indefinite curfew and shoot-at-sight orders were in force in worst-affected Kokrajhar district, while night curfew was on in Chirang and Dhubri districts.

Notably, there has been severe tension between indigenous groups and Muslim Bengali migrants in Assam for many years.

In a high-level meeting held on Tuesday, Bodoland Territorial Council (BTC) Chief Executive Member Hagrama Mohilary has blamed Assam government for the ongoing violence in the state.

What is Bodoland Territorial Council?

The Bodoland Territorial Council (BTC) is a territorial privilege established according to the Memorandum of Settlement of February 10, 2003. BTC came into existence immediately after surrender of BLTF (Bodo Liberation Tigers Force) cadres.

The BLTF laid down their weapons on December 6, 2003 under the leadership of Hagrama Mohilary and Hagrama was sworn in as the Chief Executive Member (CEM) on December 7, 2003.

The BTC has 12 electorate members each looking after a specific area of control called somisthi. The area under the BTC jurisdiction is called the Bodo Territorial Autonomous District (BTAD).

The BTAD is to consist of four contiguous districts — Kokrajhar, Baska, Udalguri and Chirang — carved out of eight existing districts — Dhubri, Kokrajhar, Bongaigaon, Barpeta, Nalbari, Kamrup, Darrang and Sonitpur — an area of 27,100 km² (35% of Assam).

That the BTAD is created under the sixth schedule of the Constitution of India has been opposed by some organizations.

How current ethnic clashes began in Kokrajhar?

According to Police and other sources, clashes began when unidentified men killed four youths on Friday night in Kokrajhar, an area dominated by the Bodo tribe.

There are reports claiming that armed Bodos attacked Muslims in retaliation, suspecting they were behind the killings.

Soon afterwards unidentified groups set houses, schools and vehicles on fire and started firing indiscriminately from automatic weapons in populated areas.

Bodoland demand gaining momentum

The demand for a separate state of Bodoland is slowly gaining momentum, especially in view of possible talks between the Centre and the two factions of NDFB (National Democratic Front of Boroland).

However, Assam's main Opposition party AIUDF has urged Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to dissolve the Bodoland Territorial Council (BTC) and place the districts witnessing violent clashes under Governor's rule.

All India United Democratic Front chief and MP Badruddin Ajmal has also demanded scrapping of the Bodoland Autonomous Treaty as it was against the interest of the non-Bodos in trouble-torn Bodoland Territorial Administered District (BTAD).

What is the 'actual' reason behind the violence?

Analysts say that the main cause of the present clash between Bodo tribals and immigrant Muslims is control over land. Kokrajhar and Chirang were predominantly a Bodo tribal majority areas till nineties.

But there were migration of immigrant Muslims to the Gossaigaon sub division areas in Kokrajhar district since beginning of nineties.


Immigrant Muslim population has increased exponentially in Gossaigaon sub division in last two decades.

Immigrant Muslims procured lands from many Bodos in Gossaigaon areas and outnumbered Bodos in many villages. Over a period of time, there were migrations of immigrant Muslims to Kokrajhar town areas. These immigrant Muslims are mainly agricultural labourers and daily wage earners.

The control over land by immigrant Muslims in Bodo heartland and increasing population of immigrant Muslims in Kokrajhar and other districts of BTC created fear psychosis among Bodos.
 
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A meaty reply. Let me respond to it in parts - divide et impera, as some older imperialists put it!

We CANNOT have an history written from a national perspective; that is an absolute betrayal of the task of an intellectual involved in academics. Nationalist views of history, or economics, or politics, is a political matter, not academic; it becomes those concoctions for which the Soviet Union became infamous.

Obviously I don't want to take away anything from objectivity or from academic treatment.

At the same time, I don't want to read my history from the perspective of those with a not so hidden agenda.

Please find some way to get your hands on a book, preferably an English version unless your French is very, very good, written by Julien Benda, called La Trahison des Clercs. It might explain some very critical ideas better than I can.

Thanks. Will do.

My French is very basic. Niveau un.

Too late.

Contra: Books: Churchill's Shameful Role in the Bengal Famine - TIME

The book in question is widely acclaimed as an author's single-handed exposure of a western hero. It is very professionally written.

Pro: The Bengali Famine

Sir, it takes nothing away from what I wanted to say. I am not saying there are no objective Western writers.

I am saying that our history and identity is too valuable for us to solely depend on them for.

You might like to ask yourself why this article leaves you with a faint sense of unease, and list down the reasons.

I guess you are talking of the Swamy's piece. I identify with it and I am not at unease with it unless you tell me it is factually wrong somewhere.
 
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Here is one example of what I am trying to say again.



» “Defalsify India’s History” by Subramanian Swamy – Excerpts . || Satyameva Jayate ||

What is true for British colonial history is also true for Islamic history that tries to justify its own bigotry.

Unfortunately this particular example is a particularly unwise choice, for two reasons: the character and openly expressed views of the author, an acknowledged Islamophobe; the fact that the central neglect of the Vijayanagar Kingdom was due to two historical reasons which need to be remembered.

One of the two reasons is the incredible bias against the peninsula, and south India in general, along with east India, I might add. South Indian history in most accounts of Indian history is never presented with any continuity; instead, it is used almost as a gap-filler. Separate histories of south India exist, of course; Nilakantha Sastri is a famous example, and a brilliant one. But the bulk of history books treat the Gangetic Plain, or Delhi, as the centre of attention, and take note of other regions with an air of absent-minded recollection.

As a result, much of south India's history, east India's history, and even Gujarat's history is depicted in a disjointed manner. This is not due to a European bias, this is due to a universal bias which affects Indian patriotic schools as well. If you go through the Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan series, you will readily understand what I mean.

The second reason is the dearth of information. There is literally a flood of information about the Delhi Sultanate, and after it, the Mughal reign. There are hardly any sources for the history of Vijaynagar. Historians can't write without sources, though if you read Sewell, "A Forgotten Empire", you will get an idea of how an illiterate (relatively speaking) British civil servant coped with this problem, and how, in contrast, in his brilliant book,"Vijaynagar the never to be forgotten Empire", Suryanarayana Rao used a vast amount of manuscripts, monastery records (from Sringeri) and epigraphs to build a very much more well-rounded picture.

So the history is there, but it is obscured by the bias against the perceived peripheries. Do read them if you can.



I am searching for something that made me form my opinions about her. Marxist label may be wrong, the issue is about her treatment of history from the apologetic perspective and not Indian national perspective.

Obviously I dislike her also for the fact that she made me dread the subject of history for a decade or more by the NCERT history books that were tailor made for this purpose.[/QUOTE]

I am searching for something that made me form my opinions about her. Marxist label may be wrong, the issue is about her treatment of history from the apologetic perspective and not Indian national perspective.

Obviously I dislike her also for the fact that she made me dread the subject of history for a decade or more by the NCERT history books that were tailor made for this purpose.

I can only sympathize remotely, until you dig out some concrete examples.

JNU students are perfectly dumb enough to ignore realities, i repeat extremely dumb enough to ignore everything and be dumb.

I got the point the first time. They are dumb.

Like all university students, you reckon? Or is there something about their brand of dumb that you would like to point out?

Wow whoever speaks against bigotry becomes terror supporters...:eek:

The default case.

But the loan words are the reality and a clear and existent reality. You cannot separate the loan words and the original ones just like that and it is impossible.You can do so if you live on a hill or an island,not so if you live linked with a broad subcontinent.

trying to stress on these things is useless as always.

LOL

The point, o hero, is that a language is not classified and analyzed in terms of words, but in terms if structure and grammar. Loan words occur in lots of languages; English is an example. That does not classify a language. Look up a discipline called Linguistics to get a preliminary idea.

Sorry for interdicting a reply to Vinod, but actually this part captures the jist of grouse many have with the Marxists.

Their single minded devotion NOT to write anything from a national perspective (here the national perspective becomes synonymous with the Indic perspective) is taken to an extreme level and it actually forces them to be intellectually dishonest and give it a non-populist, politically correct treatment even if the original event was nothing like it.

That has nothing to do with Marxists. You may not have noticed the book that I referred to Vinod2070. That book explains why there should NOT be a national bias.
 
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Obviously I don't want to take away anything from objectivity or from academic treatment.

At the same time, I don't want to read my history from the perspective of those with a not so hidden agenda.

Very odd way of putting things, although I get exactly what you mean. It sounds as if you want to read your history from the perspective of those with a hidden agenda.
 
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One of the two reasons is the incredible bias against the peninsula, and south India in general, along with east India, I might add. South Indian history in most accounts of Indian history is never presented with any continuity; instead, it is used almost as a gap-filler. Separate histories of south India exist, of course; Nilakantha Sastri is a famous example, and a brilliant one. But the bulk of history books treat the Gangetic Plain, or Delhi, as the centre of attention, and take note of other regions with an air of absent-minded recollection.


When you were raising the question to Vinod for a non-Marxist historian in India he was the one person who came to my mind but kept myself off this discussion. :)
 
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Obviously I don't want to take away anything from objectivity or from academic treatment.

At the same time, I don't want to read my history from the perspective of those with a not so hidden agenda.



Thanks. Will do.

My French is very basic. Niveau un.



Sir, it takes nothing away from what I wanted to say. I am not saying there are no objective Western writers.

I am saying that our history and identity is too valuable for us to solely depend on them for.

Oh dear. You seem to be tiring very fast.

Do please look up the two references before concluding anything about "Western writers". ;-)

I guess you are talking of the Swamy's piece. I identify with it and I am not at unease with it unless you tell me it is factually wrong somewhere.

Two things: you should read Swamy with extreme care, because he is a bigot and an Islamophobe. Do you share those views of his?
Second, I was not at all referring to that but to the Pro article.

When you were raising the question to Vinod for a non-Marxist historian in India he was the one person who came to my mind but kept myself off this discussion. :)

The ENTIRE lot of academic historians whose books are studied in undergraduate courses are non-Marxist. It is just that it has become an article of faith with the Sangh Parivar, and they automatically accuse historians, and textbook authors of being "Marxist!"
 
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Very odd way of putting things, although I get exactly what you mean. It sounds as if you want to read your history from the perspective of those with a hidden agenda.

No. Just objective history as seen through Indian eyes.

As I gave the example of "White man's burden". I want to read it for the savagery and robbery that it was.

Unfortunately this particular example is a particularly unwise choice, for two reasons: the character and openly expressed views of the author, an acknowledged Islamophobe;

I am not swayed by such labels. What matters for me is whether he is factual.

Such labels are used too often and too easily in India for anyone not towing the party line. Unfortunately.

I can only sympathize remotely, until you dig out some concrete examples.

I understand.

I am searching for an old OP-ED in TOI by her and an American gentleman. It was in response to another piece by some Indian historians about the treatment of Hinduism in American universities. Whereas it is Muslims who explain Islam and Christians who explain Christianity, Hinduism was explained in negative and derogatory terms by non Hindus who don't understand nor appreciate the nuances of the religion.

Romila Thapar and that American guy came back heavily about that piece, denigrated the religion some more, focussed only on the negatives and I found it quite pathetic.

Trying to search for it but not successful so far. Hope someone else may help with this as well.
 
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How can they match?

You call a retreaded software engineer an historian merely because he takes a knee-jerk position opposed to anything that is said about India by historians who are not Indian, and you expect - what? Sympathy? Support? he hasn't gone near an history class in his life. Is that the best you can do? Ex-mathematicians, experts in Chinese traditional healing systems, bankers and software engineers?

He did his own research and have courage write books based on it that's open to public dabate . Whats his profession got to do with it ??

Whats exactly your bloody claim to history that you are so sure that what he writes is all Bullshit ?? Few books by Romila Thapar bought at discounted rates in bookfares that you have swallowed diligently and love to vomit here ??

We are talking here about history not mathematics , events that occurred 100s of years ago. All the lesson learnt from the interpretation derived from available source materials by one or group of historians against the interpretation of another group of historians that too liable change in the presence of more reliable date . Every historian who believed in the theory of Aryan invasion till recently are now doubting its validity .
 
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He did his own research and have courage write books based on it that's open to public dabate . Whats his profession got to do with it ??

Whats exactly your bloody claim to history that you are so sure that what he writes is all Bullshit ?? Few books by Romila Thapar bought at discounted rates in bookfares that you have swallowed diligently and love to vomit here ??

We are talking here about history not mathematics , event that occurred 100s of years age. All the lesson learnt from the interpretation derived from available source materials by one or group of historians against the interpretation of another group of historians that too liable change in the presence of more reliable date . Every historian who believed in the theory of Aryan invasion till recently are now doubting its validity .

<yawn>

Why don't you go and iron some khaki shorts? Or something?

Don't talk about things beyond your depth.
 
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