Assam violence death toll rises to 21, shoot-at-sight order issued

[Joe Shearer]

Rajiv Malhotra is a good example of Indians presenting Indian history from an Indian POV.

Though I would not call him a historian, more of an interpreter of past history and analysing future through that prism.

A VERY good example.

 

[Bhairava]

A VERY good example.

Thank you.

It's good our tastes dont match, atleast on this.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Thank you.

It's good our tastes dont match, atleast on this.

How can they match?

You call a retreaded software engineer an historian merely because he takes a knee-jerk position opposed to anything that is said about India by historians who are not Indian, and you expect - what? Sympathy? Support? he hasn't gone near an history class in his life. Is that the best you can do? Ex-mathematicians, experts in Chinese traditional healing systems, bankers and software engineers?

 

[Bhairava]

How can they match?

You call a retreaded software engineer an historian merely because he takes a knee-jerk position opposed to anything that is said about India by historians who are not Indian, and you expect - what? Sympathy? Support? he hasn't gone near an history class in his life. Is that the best you can do? Ex-mathematicians, experts in Chinese traditional healing systems, bankers and software engineers?

In case you missed it out,

Though I would not call him a historian, more of an interpreter of past history and analysing future through that prism.

Anyway it doesn't matter. Most of the marxist fossils are well into the twilight of their life and the younger generation is more aware than the previous one, not to ingest anything without looking at the other side, just because a "qualified' person said so.

எப்பொருள் யார்யார்வாய்க் கேட்பினும் அப்பொருள்
மெய்ப்பொருள் காண்பது அறிவு.

No matter who says a thing, the best practise is always to research the truth for yourself.

It is understandable why we have a greatly whitewashed version of our history during school days with all the excuses of impressionable minds not being exposed to the gory truths of our past. But to attempt to maintain that throughout only smacks of a terrible contempt for the average Indian.

 

[Joe Shearer]

In case you missed it out,



Anyway it doesn't matter. Most of the marxist fossils are well into the twilight of their life and the younger generation is more aware than the previous one, not to ingest anything without looking at the other side, just because a "qualified' person said so.

எப்பொருள் யார்யார்வாய்க் கேட்பினும் அப்பொருள்
மெய்ப்பொருள் காண்பது அறிவு.

No matter who says a thing, the best practise is always to research the truth for yourself.

What a soul-stirring platitude. It is not possible for an amateur to reproduce the entire volume of research and investigation that goes into a professional historian's work. Any more than you can design a modern warship single-handed.

 

[Bhairava]

What a soul-stirring platitude. It is not possible for an amateur to reproduce the entire volume of research and investigation that goes into a professional historian's work. Any more than you can design a modern warship single-handed.

No to produce an entire volume of research may not be possible. But it is definitely possible to atleast know if the "historian" is being objective or just building upon his leaning with a vested interest.

It is understandable why we have a greatly whitewashed, feel-good version of our history during school days with all the excuses of impressionable minds not being exposed to the gory truths of our past. But to attempt to maintain that throughout only smacks of a terrible contempt for the average Indian.

 

[Tshering22]

Are you stating in cold print that there is no distinction between Aryan and Dravidian languages?

I have no connections with the JNU, but they have fine scholars, as well as the usual collection of politically motivated ones. Like most other universities the world over, in fact.

Well it was a figure of speech I used JNU to. Other universities around the world don't go to destroy their country's culture like the jholawalas do here.

A silly statement.

There is nothing especially fearful about the Hindu religion, except that it is a religion, in all its various divisions, and religions ar inherently negative, holding back the progress of the human race.

See this is the thing; your ignorance of Indian ancient philosophy makes you paranoid about it. There's more to it than what that idiot Advani speaks. You need to understand that there's an entire way of life something that communists, anti-Hindus and other idiots cannot even dream of.

Even we Buddhists have philosophies that come from mainstream Hinduism. it is just that most people don't remember or don't follow that these days. Otherwise you'd be seeing a very positive side of Dharmic faiths. Unlike organized religions from middle east, they don't ask unquestioned obedience.

What I do oppose is Hindu bigots and their nationalist manifestation, which is thankfully well on the way to wiping itself out, along with the incredibly incompetent and corrupt counterpart, the Congress. While they last, however, they have infected a generation of young Indians with a bias against modern thoughts and concepts, a belief that India lived in a mythical golden age before the incursion of Islam, and a xenophobia of massive proportions.

Well your kind will have to ultimately face a judgement call to solve this difference some day. Whether it is in a parliamentary discussion or on the battlefield I can't say. But trust me, those whom you defend so vehemently are becoming a threat to non-Hindus as well.

You are running out of excuses now seriously.

Don't be silly. It is the narrow-minded bigot I hate, not the broad masses practising it in their own way. Like I hate bigots from every religion.

Your defensive attitude towards Jihad don't really reflect that. In fact, the only aggressive statements I see from you is against the Hindus or if sometimes people like me ask you something.

If you are indeed against "bigots", then do consider looking at organized religion before you insult either Hindus or sister faiths like us.

It is clear that you are not merely ill-informed, but stubborn and obstinate in denying facts that don't suit you.

It always ends like this; when secularists and anti-Dharmic people run out of arguments, personal attacks start.

You are aware, I hope, that precisely the same role is played by the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, and for precisely the same reasons?

It is not their dedication that I abhor, but the perverted uses to which they put the admiration that it evokes.

If you compare JUD to RSS, then clearly your hate for Hindu culture and its sister faiths, reflects.


Rational works both ways; not just when attacking the Hindu community that is the majority in our country and is tolerant of non-Indian religions.

So either live upto your claims or don't just spew fire against the community that forms the significant historical identity of this nation.

 

[Bhairava]

It always ends like this; when secularists and anti-Dharmic people run out of arguments, personal attacks start.

Modus-operandi of the marxists whenever they are cornered. Shoot the messenger when they run out of ammunition shooting the message.

 

[Joe Shearer]

No to produce an entire volume of research may not be possible. But it is definitely possible to atleast know if the "historian" is being objective or just building upon his leaning with a vested interest.

It is understandable why we have a greatly whitewashed, feel-good version of our history during school days with all the excuses of impressionable minds not being exposed to the gory truths of our past. But to attempt to maintain that throughout only smacks of a terrible contempt for the average Indian.

Try not to be silly.

Does the average Indian ask his cook to fix the plumbing?

 

[Bhairava]

Try not to be silly.

Does the average Indian ask his cook to fix the plumbing?

The average Indian can make use of his puncture kit to repair the tyre in his home and not take it to the mechanic everytime he has a flat tyre. I do it.

Believe me it is very easy to figure out the marxists and the influence of the class struggle theories in their interpretation of history (which mostly results in a negative portrayal of Hinduism and almost anything Indic) when one reads it. Perhaps its has got to do something with Islam and Christianity supposedly being egalitarian religions (aligned with communist utopia), and Hinduism being hierarchial (capitalist bourgeois tendencies).

 

[ajtr]

Come to my village and see how many farmers uses Kisaan Credit Cards and other subsidies provided by govt. They depend on it and they fully use it.

A soldier do his duty. If you want to hate, hate politicians not the soldiers. How can you feel happy of a soldier who gives his life for the union of India? One of the most pathetic sentence coming from an Indian, sorry to say. He died doing his duty while people like you are not doing yours, being a responsible citizen.

As far as hospitals are concerned, I think you should visit them. Coz I have and I see with my own eyes when you can consult a doctor with 5 rps fees in govt. hospitals. My cousin is posted in remote village as a doctor working in govt. clinic. Don
t tell me you didn't noticed it.As far as for your social work, I am not asking you to brag, just asking how much India you have seen, what analysis you have done in the rural sector of India.

I dont know in which state your village is but the two states i m involved with my own MP,chattisghar have majority villages you forget about the health services even availing the food is luxry to them and Northern MP is somewhat ok coz they are near by the economic zone of gurgaon delhi noida etc but the larger part of central mp and south east are the worst suffers you might have seen the reports on MP HDI too.like wise chattisghar which was extension of south east MP and by and large these area are under Maoist influence.I ve worked in these areas for almost 7 yrs so i know what is the real situation on ground.

Hindu having Nazi ideology. Aren't population of minorities increasing in India unlike neighboring nations? If Hindus had Nazi ideology, all will have been exterminated considering it as The Final Solution. Aren't Hindus killed and has to live as refugees in their own country? These Hindus are becoming Jews not Nazis.

Is population increase is an scale that hindus dont have nazi ideology some of them you can find right here.

You see the plight of few thousand minorities killed in India but not of these majorities.

Its your selective reading again.y not you do one thing just search on my posts in this thread and decide for yourself.

What should we do, should we create separate nations for Kashmiris, Assamese, Keraleans, Maoists? Can you guarantee innocent lives won't we lost after that?

Again its question of perception .you looking for division im looking for consolidation through revolution. Bolsheviks any one????

Give me solutions, policies, something constructive....not same old Anti-India Ideology.

Its top down approach as in india's case.start elimination from top.

 

[KRAIT]

I dont know in which state your village is but the two states i m involved with my own MP,chattisghar have majority villages you forget about the health services even availing the food is luxry to them and Northern MP is somewhat ok coz they are near by the economic zone of gurgaon delhi noida etc but the larger part of central mp and south east are the worst suffers you might have seen the reports on MP HDI too.like wise chattisghar which was extension of south east MP and by and large these area are under Maoist influence.I ve worked in these areas for almost 7 yrs so i know what is the real situation on ground.


Is population increase is an scale that hindus dont have nazi ideology some of them you can find right here.

Its your selective reading again.y not you do one thing just search on my posts in this thread and decide for yourself.

Again its question of perception .you looking for division im looking for consolidation through revolution. Bolsheviks any one????

Its top down approach as in india's case.start elimination from top.

I think you have heard of BIMARU states. Bihar and rajasthan are showing growth. Madhya Pradesh is not, local people not electing right people. Things start changing slowly not within a night or terminating few people.

I have been to maoist affect region, worked with local enforcement agencies and I have seen what is the ground realities. I agree that the situation in MP is very grave.

You call them Nazis but you are selective on picking victims. Why don't you put forward the oppression of higher castes in our country. Aren't they supposed to have justice or is it your way that these people deserves it?

Aren't you generalizing Hindus just on basis of type of people you have seen ?

In most of the villages in India, Hindus and Muslims lives peacefully. Have you seen that documentary on Babri masjid case, where an Hindu priest gave som nay rational arguments. The local people told that they don't have any problem with Muslims, rather they want help from the govt. for their upliftment. The director, cameraman and that priest was murdered. RSS and BJP....culprits...but what about other Hindus who didn't want to be part of it.

So Ma'am, you are generalizing too much and asking the type of revolution that is not practical. You have to make do with what you have and improve it. I know this because I see how people can make a difference with same type of resources and constraints. THey don't bring revolution, they just improve 1% in 100 sectors than improving 100% in one sector. Its a dynamic and progressive process and it works in India.

 

[Nitin Goyal]

^^^^^ MP has registered a growth rate of 12 % for past 5 years.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Well it was a figure of speech I used JNU to. Other universities around the world don't go to destroy their country's culture like the jholawalas do here.

Shows how little you know,about universities and about the world. Whether it was the Sorbonne, or Columbia, or UCLA, or UC Berkeley, or Harvard, universities have traditionally been at the forefront of dissent against the establishment, the entity that you wrongly identify with the country's culture.

These JNU people are over-rated bums, but not for the reasons you have mentioned.

Which part of Indian culture have the JNU radicals threatened? do you have a clue what they stand for, the worst of them? Or was it just that it is an easy institution to refer to?

See this is the thing; your ignorance of Indian ancient philosophy makes you paranoid about it. There's more to it than what that idiot Advani speaks. You need to understand that there's an entire way of life something that communists, anti-Hindus and other idiots cannot even dream of.

Unfortunately, ancient Indian philosophical systems were part of the curriculum that I studied for my undergraduate degree. I am far from ignorant about it, nor am I hostile to its tenets, of any of the six main schools.

It is the corrupted religion, not the original philosophy, which I oppose?

Since you are significantly ignorant, perhaps it is timely to remind you that Gautama Buddha followed the same line; he discarded the religion and retained certain philosophical aspects of it. Buddhism was based on rejection of the then prevalent Hindu religion, but retained certain philosophical elements, and refined them significantly.

Even we Buddhists have philosophies that come from mainstream Hinduism. it is just that most people don't remember or don't follow that these days. Otherwise you'd be seeing a very positive side of Dharmic faiths. Unlike organized religions from middle east, they don't ask unquestioned obedience.

I don't understand your statement that most people don't remember or don't follow that these days. Follow what? The teachings of the Buddha are fairly faithfully followed, even in the current schools that, for instance, Buddhists in Sikkim follow. What is not being followed, according to you? Do you know, or are you just stringing words together to form a plausible argument?

Saying that Dharmic faiths have the common feature of not demanding unquestioned obedience is a platitude. Everyone knows that; what about it makes the repulsive aspects of Hinduism palatable? Merely being better in some respects than Abrahamic religions is not a sufficient criterion to swallow them unquestioningly. It just makes those Abrahamic religions even less palatable. I dislike them more than I dislike corrupted Hinduism; how does that affect the original statement I made?

Well your kind will have to ultimately face a judgement call to solve this difference some day. Whether it is in a parliamentary discussion or on the battlefield I can't say. But trust me, those whom you defend so vehemently are becoming a threat to non-Hindus as well.You are running out of excuses now seriously.

What exactly am I defending? Mind spelling it out? What difference are you talking about? And where is the need for the dramatic on the battlefield guff? Do you seriously believe it yourself, and do you fail to hear how theatrical and phony it sounds?

From this side it sounds like you are running out of arguments.

Your defensive attitude towards Jihad don't really reflect that. In fact, the only aggressive statements I see from you is against the Hindus or if sometimes people like me ask you something.

If you are indeed against "bigots", then do consider looking at organized religion before you insult either Hindus or sister faiths like us.

Sometimes you simply don't make sense, largely because your posts are larded with opinions and prejudices, not with facts.

I have never defended the lesser Jihad, here or anywhere else. I avoid discussions on the Ghazwa-e-Hind because the idea is so utterly bizarre and mediaeval, and I don't want to keep losing my temper with nincompoops who want to shove it down my throat. The only religions I can (barely) tolerate are Sikhism, Buddhism and Jainism, largely because they do not refer to God.

So stop assigning what you think I should be thinking to me, rather than what I do think.

It always ends like this; when secularists and anti-Dharmic people run out of arguments, personal attacks start.

Would you like me to cite the number of times you have turned out to be ill-informed in just this one comment? And would you agree that after having facts which undermine your arguments repeatedly brought to your attention, you continue with the same arguments? If that is not stubborn and obstinate, what is it?

And I am not anti-Dharmic; stop playing to the gallery and trying to gain sympathy. I am against religion.

If you compare JUD to RSS, then clearly your hate for Hindu culture and its sister faiths, reflects.

I have already said, at the outset, that I am against religion. I would be interested to know, however, how you re-discovered this fact from the statement you have commented upon. What is the connection?

Rational works both ways; not just when attacking the Hindu community that is the majority in our country and is tolerant of non-Indian religions.

So either live upto your claims or don't just spew fire against the community that forms the significant historical identity of this nation.

On the contrary, I find the illiterates who claim to stand for Dharmic religions on this forum to be far more bigoted than normal people. Such attitudes of intolrance are not to be tolerated themselves. I have explained why in another post.

 

[Bhairava]

Shows how little you know,about universities and about the world. Whether it was the Sorbonne, or Columbia, or UCLA, or UC Berkeley, or Harvard, universities have traditionally been at the forefront of dissent against the establishment, the entity that you wrongly identify with the country's culture.

Wrong analogy -

Dissent against political establishment is NOT to be confused with a general loathing of their history. You wont find many Americans disputing their greco-roman civilizational roots or Judeo-Christian moral value system. And even if they are present, they are just academic runts whose importance does not extend beyond the four walls of their research studios with absolutely no political influence.

As far as I have observed Americans are at the very forefront building a grand narrative around their history, promoting icons, giving it an aura of grandeur..Perhaps second only to Chinese.