Ask a question about Pakistan.

[Umair Nawaz]

"The cause of Kashmir is based on nationalism not Religion" - Nope. It is religion. Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, and most Shias are not part of any movement. The slogans are recorded in history for posterity. I read in books and heard on TV in news broadcasts from BBC and PTV(yes when PTV was not banned here) Here in Anantnag the issue was never so bad, but in Srinagar, the non Muslims were hounded out quickly.

In the end it was another story of might makes right - and if Kashmir 'intifada' is a freedom struggle, I have to admit, India never had any freedom movement.

Whether NATO leaves or not - the end result won't change. This is the post nuclear age buddy. That means no war. Also the LOC is now pretty clearly demarcated, patrolled and fenced - unlike 1989.

"Blood of innocent Kashmiris" - I don't know if you know Kashmiri or not. But if you do, come to India and visit the refugee camps in Delhi and Jammu where the Kashmiris are staying. Thing is they are Kashmiri Hindus. Come and see their condition. The Government does not care because they are nobody's votebank. If you come and see you will understand. Then go to Sopore, Varahmul/Baramulla and Srinagar. You will know the difference. Trust me, unless you see it, you will never believe.

You have said you will dig graves and do stuff - does this mean you are in the army's top echelons?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/263017-ask-question-about-pakistan-8.html#ixzz2YXyJYVui

Just like i said u betrayed the nationalism cause hence it was exploited by other n make it look more like Religious cause.
But it really is nationalistic cause.

Un Us had fough side by side against Dogra and British but i dont know what u have find good in indians n left us alone to fight for ourselves. As of now 600,000 Kashmiris r dead n only Gos know how many will but still u will keep on loving indians.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

guys this is a non-political thread & NOT a Kashmir dispute thread

 

[Gautam]

1) my point was Kashmiri freedom fighters fought against hari singh n that was their intention only. But it was u who interfered in internal matters of kashmiris n sent in yr army to gain territory. If it wasnt for u then kashmir would have been peaceful.

Sonny, We entered Kashmir only after it joined us. Now that becomes our internal issue. Looks like you don't understand this simple logic.

2)let me give u a recap as u indians have a short term memory loss problems.

here is what u wrote.

Like I said before.. you can continue to believe whatever you want to. Truth hurts so much it seems.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/263017-ask-question-about-pakistan-7.html#ixzz2YXyhc3l8

and in response this is what i wrote.
Sure we just dont believe it but we know it.
Its u who is confused n ran out of ammo.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/263017-ask-question-about-pakistan-7.html#ixzz2YXz48fxZ

And now u claim about i giving u facts

Strange.

Yeah.. and my response will remain the same...i.e. I am still here waiting for you to come up with facts.

 

[Biplab Bijay]

Of-course. We will leave. But first bring back the kashmiri pundits to the valley. Otherwise violence will be replied with violence.

Peace.

Yes n now accept the wishes of kashmiris and leave us alone.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Sorry bro. Can't support a movement that now calls Anantnag as Islamabad. Asiya Andrabi's girls(leader of Dukhtaran e Millat) forcefully took out the children(largely Kashmir Muslims) so that they are not given education by my mother. Honestly she is considered to be almost a joke here but in Sopore its another story. Let me give you an example. Can you ever support a movement of Sindhi Hindus for example who want a way out of your state? <-- That's just a hypothetical question.

Enough borders have been drawn and redrawn in blood. Our previous generations, let's admit made mistakes. We can follow them and kill each other. Or we can say - lets stay in peace, study, sing, work for a better future, do social work and the like. I have chosen the latter. But one good thing I can tell you - Kashmir valley of 90s is totally different from today. Previously KMs and KPs did not feel like going out of the valley. And now a huge colony exists in Bangalore even. Even the girls of Pragash that was almost exiled by the 'Grand Mufti' came to Bangalore. The weather and the professional opportunities suit us
Live in peace. If you come next time to Srinagar, and if we ever meet - kawva, rice, kashmiri aloo dum and mutton/or something

Just like i said u betrayed the nationalism cause hence it was exploited by other n make it look more like Religious cause.
But it really is nationalistic cause.

Un Us had fough side by side against Dogra and British but i dont know what u have find good in indians n left us alone to fight for ourselves. As of now 600,000 Kashmiris r dead n only Gos know how many will but still u will keep on loving indians.

 

[Biplab Bijay]

Ganguly da. Dont be sentimental. He said we left them alone. I said they forcefully made us leave. So now it is purely a religious movement. So you should say with me. Bring back the Kashmiri pandits back to valley and then you may take your freedom. Otherwise violence will be replied with violence and brutal force.

Peace.

Sorry bro. Can't support a movement that now calls Anantnag as Islamabad. Asiya Andrabi's girls(leader of Dukhtaran e Millat) forcefully took out the children(largely Kashmir Muslims) so that they are not given education by my mother. Honestly she is considered to be almost a joke here but in Sopore its another story. Let me give you an example. Can you ever support a movement of Sindhi Hindus for example who want a way out of your state? <-- That's just a hypothetical question.

Enough borders have been drawn and redrawn in blood. Our previous generations, let's admit made mistakes. We can follow them and kill each other. Or we can say - lets stay in peace, study, sing, work for a better future, do social work and the like. I have chosen the latter. But one good thing I can tell you - Kashmir valley of 90s is totally different from today. Previously KMs and KPs did not feel like going out of the valley. And now a huge colony exists in Bangalore even. Even the girls of Pragash that was almost exiled by the 'Grand Mufti' came to Bangalore. The weather and the professional opportunities suit us
Live in peace. If you come next time to Srinagar, and if we ever meet - kawva, rice, kashmiri aloo dum and mutton/or something

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Sonny, We entered Kashmir only after it joined us. Now that becomes our internal issue. Looks like you don't understand this simple logic.


Yeah.. and my response will remain the same...i.e. I am still here waiting for you to come up with facts.

1) Your Gov never encouraged Nawabs, Maharajas etc but in this matter when uprising begin against his brutal rule then u became hypocrite n joined in the internal matters of kashmir to gain territory.

And now u say it has became internal matter of India. Well no wonder we dont accept yr rule n yr suffering so much in kashmir.

2) I have told u already about facts what else u want me to say.
Your kashmir claimed was rebuked by me and yr territorial gains r not with u nor were u able to make them pat of indin union n were forced to go back to international borders.

U were threshed internationally even in UN badly n resulted in a very bad image for your country.
Pakistan meanwhile defended motherland with zeal n bravery denying enemy to capture any city or any strategic location.
What u captured were mere fields and villages that too u were forced to give back n were asked to go back to your country.

 

[Biplab Bijay]

Gautam, just reply to him point wise. Freedom movement should be encouraged. But ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Pandits in the name of freedom struggle can not be tolerated. Violence will be replied with violence.

Peace.

Sonny, We entered Kashmir only after it joined us. Now that becomes our internal issue. Looks like you don't understand this simple logic.


Yeah.. and my response will remain the same...i.e. I am still here waiting for you to come up with facts.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Anyway, this is going off topic now.


What are the top haunted places in Pakistan?
I heard there are a lot of such haunts in Lahore...

 

[RAMPAGE]

@Aeronaut yaar wasn't there some kind of deal between s.korea and pakistan to manufacture ERA armor ?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Freedom from whom? I am an Indian. I am good with India.
I said it is a fundamentalist movement. I am for inclusion, not division. Kashmir is and will be India.

Ganguly da. Dont be sentimental. He said we left them alone. I said they forcefully made us leave. So now it is purely a religious movement. So you should say with me. Bring back the Kashmiri pandits back to valley and then you may take your freedom. Otherwise violence will be replied with violence and brutal force.

Peace.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Sorry bro. Can't support a movement that now calls Anantnag as Islamabad. Asiya Andrabi's girls(leader of Dukhtaran e Millat) forcefully took out the children(largely Kashmir Muslims) so that they are not given education by my mother. Honestly she is considered to be almost a joke here but in Sopore its another story. Let me give you an example. Can you ever support a movement of Sindhi Hindus for example who want a way out of your state? <-- That's just a hypothetical question.

Enough borders have been drawn and redrawn in blood. Our previous generations, let's admit made mistakes. We can follow them and kill each other. Or we can say - lets stay in peace, study, sing, work for a better future, do social work and the like. I have chosen the latter. But one good thing I can tell you - Kashmir valley of 90s is totally different from today. Previously KMs and KPs did not feel like going out of the valley. And now a huge colony exists in Bangalore even. Even the girls of Pragash that was almost exiled by the 'Grand Mufti' came to Bangalore. The weather and the professional opportunities suit us
Live in peace. If you come next time to Srinagar, and if we ever meet - kawva, rice, kashmiri aloo dum and mutton/or something

Well then yr same attitude will make u face the wrath of Muslims every day.
Either your with us or with them there is no point in being neutral here.

And yr taking minor incidents as the reason then what about 600,000 Kashmiri Muslims being killed on daily basis there??

And yr Logic of sindhi hindus is total rubbish.

They r mostly very happy here with exception to some abnormal cases.
And the total population of pakistan has 97.5% muslims with second minority as christians then Hindus who r less then 1% then sikhs.

And as this country is for muslims n was build for them so there is no logical reason for them to say this.

But this same logic doesnt go well with hindus in kashmir valley as 80% population is muslim second minority is Buddists which r actually pro china then hindus then sikhs chritians etc.

So what u think is just only isolated thinking with in yr community. But i fear this will end up in very bad fall out for u guys as u must admit that Kashmiris in majority r not very happy with hindus in valley because of them betraying the cause.

And evetually things will go out of hands and as u living in valley will feel the same one day or other. There is still time we r one nation n fight with us against occupiers for our collective Good.

 

[Biplab Bijay]

That is why i said " you may have your freedom" depending on the situation. If entire Kashmiri People including muslims and Pandits want freedom then there should not be any problem. They can come on table and discuss. But not on the basis of ethnic cleansing in the name of freedom struggle.

Freedom from whom? I am an Indian. I am good with India.
I said it is a fundamentalist movement. I am for inclusion, not division. Kashmir is and will be India.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Of-course. We will leave. But first bring back the kashmiri pundits to the valley. Otherwise violence will be replied with violence.

Peace.

thats upto them n u. IF they behave rationally n like civilized people n join the nationalistic cause then they r welcome.
Like i said we dont have anything against them.

 

[T-123456]

Yes & No ! See our Nationalism is based around any one ethnicity or linguistic group but around the notion that 'Muslims are One Nation' ! At any rate nothing else would work in Pakistan either because we've got hundreds of different ethnicities & linguistic groups in Pakistan. Heck the largest ethnicity in Pakistan - the Punjabis - whereas they number closer to 100 million (thats more than the entire population of Egypt or nearly more than the entire population of most GCC countries combined) they stand at only 50-55% of Pakistan's population & even they aren't ethnicically homogenous with them having millions of sub-ethnicities that, over the years, have become assimilated in the Punjabi Identity !

At the same time No we're not united as one because whenever you get bad governance & politics there are elements there who pit one ethnic group against the other & thats what breeds disunity; we've got the same issues as the Kurdish-Turkish Issues that like the Kurds in Turkey we've got countless millions who are more than happy calling themselves Pakistanis but a handful of individuals (a few hundred to a few thousand) who're creating hell for the State ! Additionally we've got the Sunni-Shiite divide in full-swing these days too. Naturally very bad governance on part of the State compounds the problem manifold.

But by & large there exists ethnic-harmony in Pakistan. My ethnicity for example - the Kashmiris - stand at less than 3-5% of Pakistan's population but we're ruling the country right now !




Pakistanis do put their country first its just that because our Nationalism is based on 'Religious Unity' naturally we're a lot more inclined towards feeling fraternal ties with Fellow Muslim Countries ! Unfortunately they aren't always reciprocated & the two Muslim Brothers of ours have been playing their Sunni-Shiite BS right here in our midst along with a few Pakistani sell-outs & ideologues that has ripped apart the social fabric of our society !

Thankfully still most Pakistanis are coming around this realization that our Muslim Brothers aren't all that Brotherly ! Certainly China has helped us the most & it isn't even a Muslim Majority or an Islamic Country - Naturally most Pakistanis hold fraternal feelings for them.



Dunno but it'll sure as hell be a lot better than the last one who managed to rake up more debt in their 5 years than what every other Government in Pakistan did in their past 65 combined !



The Armed Forces has an over-active role in Pakistan's Political Sphere much like it did in Turkey in the past & like the Turkish Armed Forces it seems to have learned that democracy is the only way forward ! At the same time everytime the Pakistani Army stepped in & toppled the Government - The People were with them !



Ask away & I'll try to answer !

What a mess,didnt know it was that complicated in Pakistan.
I my self also thought that China is the only country realy helping Pakistan,since they also have many ethnicities like Pakistan maybe you need the Chinese way of governing first,makes you think about the ''muslim brotherhood''.
The Chinese model is the only way forward for your country in my vieuw.
Look at what they have become,one party or one man rule would be the only way to bring Pakistan forward(a straight leader putting the country above all).
In this mess you are i believe nr 27 economy in the world,makes you think again what if?