ASEAN Affairs Forum

[NiceGuy]

Do some research before you talk big okay? Allowing IAEA to visit their nuclear facilities doesn't make them clear from all suspicion regarding the enrichment of nuclear material to the stage of nuclear weapons.

See the list bellow:

- United Nations Security Council Resolution 1696 – passed on 31 July 2006. Demanded that Iran suspend all enrichment-related and reprocessing activities and threatened sanctions.

- United Nations Security Council Resolution 1737 – passed on 23 December 2006. Made mandatory for Iran to suspend enrichment-related and reprocessing activities and cooperate with the IAEA, imposed sanctions banning the supply of nuclear-- related materials and technology, and froze the assets of key individuals and companies related to the program.

- United Nations Security Council Resolution 1747 – passed on 24 March 2007. Imposed an arms embargo and expanded the freeze on Iranian assets.

- United Nations Security Council Resolution 1803 – passed on 3 March 2008. Extended the asset freezes and called upon states to monitor the activities of Iranian banks, inspect Iranian ships and aircraft, and to monitor the movement of individuals involved with the program through their territory.

- United Nations Security Council Resolution 1835 – Passed in 2008.

- United Nations Security Council Resolution 1929 – passed on 9 June 2010. Banned Iran from participating in any activities related to ballistic missiles, tightened the arms embargo, travel bans on individuals involved with the program, froze the funds and assets of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and Islamic Republic of Iran Shipping Lines, and recommended that states inspect
Iranian cargo, prohibit the servicing of Iranian vessels involved in prohibited activities, prevent the provision of financial services used for sensitive nuclear activities, closely watch Iranian individuals and entities when dealing with them, prohibit the opening of Iranian banks on their territory and prevent Iranian banks from entering into relationship with their banks if it might contribute to the nuclear program, and prevent financial institutions operating in their territory from opening offices and accounts in Iran.

- United Nations Security Council Resolution 1984 – passed on 9 June 2011. This resolution extended the mandate of the panel of experts that supports the Iran Sanctions Committee for one year.

- United Nations Security Council Resolution 2049 – passed on 7 June 2012. Renewed the mandate of the Iran Sanctions Committee’s Panel of Experts for 13 months.

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So, what should Iran do next to clear from all suspicion ?? They have to allow US's troops to station in their country and massacre their people ??

Nah, that is unlikely, we already been committing such destructive and genocide actions during our war in East Timor, we even used napalm bomb to burn those East Timorese villages and militia bases, the same bombs the U.S used during Vietnam war right? But there's no U.N sanction against that because our diplomats play their role properly. We already had many of strategic weapons that may threaten Aussie since the first time we got Battleship and jet bombers filled with napalm bombs. Instead of sanctioning us, they befriended us.

Even when the U.S embargoed us from the late 1990's until 2004, we managed to grow fast and doing just fine.

That time, you had US support, Napalm bomb received from US.Things changed now, communist threat gone, Indonesia is not important to US like before.

btw: ur jet bombers are easy to be shot down ,it can't be a threat to Aussie and can u produce napalm bomb now ??

On the day before the invasion, U.S. President Gerald R. Ford and Kissinger met with Indonesian president Suharto. The United States had suffered a devastating setback in Vietnam, leaving Indonesia as the most important ally in the region. The US national interest "had to be on the side of Indonesia," Ford concluded.[65] According to declassified documents released by the National Security Archive (NSA) in December 2001, they gave a green light for the invasion. In response to Suharto saying, "We want your understanding if it was deemed necessary to take rapid or drastic action [in East Timor]," Ford replied, "We will understand and not press you on the issue. We understand the problem and the intentions you have." Kissinger agreed, although he had fears that the use of US-made arms in the invasion would be exposed to public scrutiny, talking of their desire to "influence the reaction in America" so that "there would be less chance of people talking in an unauthorised way."[66] The US also hoped the invasion would be relatively swift and not involve protracted resistance. "It is important that whatever you do succeeds quickly," Kissinger said to Suharto.[67]

The US also played a crucial role in supplying weapons to Indonesia.[65] A week after the invasion of East Timor the National Security Council prepared a detailed analysis of the Indonesian military units involved and the U.S. equipment they used. The analysis revealed that virtually all of the military equipment used in the invasion was U.S. supplied: U.S.-supplied destroyer escorts shelled East Timor as the attack unfolded; Indonesian marines disembarked from U.S.-supplied landing craft; U.S.-supplied C-47 and C-130 aircraft dropped Indonesian paratroops and strafed Dili with .50 caliber machine guns; while the 17th and 18th Airborne brigades which led the assault on the Timorese capital were "totally U.S. MAP supported," and their jump masters U.S. trained.[68]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_invasion_of_East_Timor

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

ASEAN will always choose China and USA as their arbitrators, that's their political choice.

ASEAN will always be the playground of many groups, not just for Vietnam.

 

[NiceGuy]

We are a Regional power and a very valuable ally to have in the region. If the world superpower is faced with choosing between Indonesia or Vietnam guess which they're going to pick. The problem with Iran or the NK is that they're "weak." For example the US maintain diplomacy with the Giant Communist China while they still keeping their "medieval sanction" toward small communist cuba. Point is if you're powerful they will try to talk to you if you're weak they won't even bother talking with you.

First: R U a true Indonesian ?? can u speak its language ??

Second: Iran have ballistic missile with the range of 1,000 to 5,500 kilometers when No nations in ASEAN have it, so Iran is Not weak.

Nah, we will not sanction Iran, since Iran is our close ally right now.

But NK always has the rebellious nature, she deserved to get sanctioned furthermore.

actions speak louder than words.

But actions speak louder than words. In fact, China has made important changes in its policy on Iran in recent years—in large part due to the Obama administration’s assertive diplomacy on Iran. The most recent news—that China decided to continue to cut its oil imports from Iran next month compared to March 2011—is an important step. And in 2010, China supported United Nations Security Council Resolution 1929, the most extensive package of sanctions Iran has ever faced. China did so despite a last-minute diplomatic effort by Turkey, Brazil, and Iran to avert its passage.

China is also apparently partially complying with the Comprehensive Iran Sanctions, Accountability and Divestment, enacted by the United States in 2010. Chinese firms have scaled back their activities in Iran in response to instructions from both Chinese leadership and their own business calculations. Chinese national energy companies such as the China National Petroleum Company, China National Offshore Oil Corporation, and the Sinopec Group have all slowed or halted work on multibillion dollar Iranian energy development projects such as the North and South Pars gas field and the Yadavaran oil field. Although these are positive developments, the challenge remains in getting multinational corporations around the world, including Chinese companies, to comply with existing sanctions on Iran.
China

 

[nufix]

So, what should Iran do next to clear from all suspicion ?? They have to allow US's troops to station in their country and massacre their people ??

About what Iran should do next is out of my concern as that's not the topic of our discussion. The point is, China is not bilaterally sanction Iran, your point about the possibility of Indonesia got sanctioned from both of U.S and China is not legit.

That time, you had US support, Napalm bomb received from US.Things changed now, communist threat gone, Indonesia is not important to US like before.

btw: ur jet bombers are easy to be shot down ,it can't be a threat to Aussie and can u produce napalm bomb now ??

That's the point, we can play diplomacy and gain support from everywhere using Indonesia's importance factors, so without mongering for war or trying to ally with any countries, we can manage ourselves though so many things using our diplomatic power.

Indonesia is still important to the U.S, why do you think U.S gave us clearance to have state of the art AH 64D Longbow and granted Indonesia 3 squadrons of upgraded F 16?

Really? tell me how many of our Bombers have been shot down by enemy?

We don't produce napalm, but we got more napalm bombs than you got CBU 55, that's for sure.
Anyway, here's our napalm bombs used in East Timor, hope it wouldn't trigger your bad memories about napalm.

Indonesia's Napalm bomb during the invasion of East Timor.

Indonesian AF ground crews are equipping the bomber with Napalm bomb.

Indonesian AF bombers passed East Timorese sky after dropping Napalm bomb.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

First: R U a true Indonesian ?? can u speak its language ??

Are you truly Vietnamese? You seems to support ASEAN dominion over your country sovereignty.

Do you even know how much have the United States invested in the country we're talking about Billions. Iran is another thing because the US doesn't have to many business presence in the country, thus it is easier to impose sanction on Iran.
Helping Indonesia Make the Most of US Investment | The Jakarta Globe

 

[nufix]

ASEAN will always choose China and USA as their arbitrators, that's their political choice.

ASEAN will always be the playground of many groups, not just for Vietnam.

nah, Indonesia doesn't chose U.S nor China.

Referring to Vietnam doesn't make you can generalize it.

 

[NiceGuy]

About what Iran should do next is out of my concern as that's not the topic of our discussion. The point is, China is not bilaterally sanction Iran, your point about the possibility of Indonesia got sanctioned from both of U.S and China is not legit.

People know US accusation toward Iran nuclear programme is a Big lie . Iran programe is clearly under IAEA watch 24/24 hours. Just like how US lied abt Iraq-Iran, it can lie abt Indonesia too and China will do Nothing to help you against US's sanction.

Indonesia is still important to the U.S, why do you think U.S gave us clearance to have state of the art AH 64D Longbow and granted Indonesia 3 squadrons of upgraded F 16?

AH 64D and F 16 can't use to attack Aussie, if you're important to US, then try to ask for the right to increase your missile's range up to 800km like S.Korea and see if US allow you to do or not.Pls don't show me ur RX-550 again coz it only use to launch satellite,it not an attack missile with serous warhead.

Really? tell me how many of our Bombers have been shot down by enemy?

Ur bomber is not better than B-52, right, and we shot down a dozen of B-52 just by outdated SA-2 so let alone Aussie with far better anti-aircraft system.

We don't produce napalm, but we got more napalm bombs than you got CBU 55, that's for sure.
Anyway, here's our napalm bombs used in East Timor, hope it wouldn't trigger your bad memories about napalm.

CBU-55 can make a fireball over a 4-acre (16,000 m2) area. napalm bombs only can make a minor damage compared with CBU-55.

The first generation of the CBU-55 was used during the Vietnam War. By April 21, 1975, South Vietnam had largely been conquered by the military from the north. Earlier in the month, a single CBU-55 had been flown from Thailand to the Bien Hoa airbase. The senior military officer in Vietnam, Major General Homer Smith, cleared the way for the Saigon government to use the weapon against the North Vietnamese Army. A Vietnamese C-130 transport plane circled Xuan Loc at 20,000 feet (6,100 m), then dropped the bomb. The contents exploded in a fireball over a 4-acre (16,000 m2) area. Experts estimated that 250 soldiers had been killed, primarily by the immediate depletion of oxygen rather than from burns. The CBU-55 was never used again in the war, and South Vietnam's government surrendered on April 30.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBU-55

 

[NiceGuy]

Are you truly Vietnamese? You seems to support ASEAN dominion over your country sovereignty.

Do you even know how much have the United States invested in the country we're talking about Billions. Iran is another thing because the US doesn't have to many business presence in the country, thus it is easier to impose sanction on Iran.
Helping Indonesia Make the Most of US Investment | The Jakarta Globe

I can speak VNese fluently , and I've posted many link here in VNese and translated to English, too. My IP also from VN. Unlike u, u never can prove that you know how to speak Indonesian. Building the ASEAN Political-Security Community bring lots of benefit for VN such as we won't be scared of US-China's sanction anymore etc, so I support it

 

[nufix]

People know US accusation toward Iran nuclear programme is a Big lie . Iran programe is clearly under IAEA watch 24/24 hours. Just like how US lied abt Iraq-Iran, it can lie abt Indonesia too and China will do Nothing to help you against US's sanction.

Dude, are you delusional? You can't even stick to the discussion points. We are not talking about whether the accusation is a lie or not, it is about the possibility of China and U.S simultaneously embargoing Indonesia which is unlikely as I told you. God, now I know why most people tired to talk some senses to you, you always derail the topic.

AH 64D and F 16 can't use to attack Aussie, if you're important to US, then try to ask for the right to increase your missile's range up to 800km like S.Korea and see if US allow you to do or not.Pls don't show me ur RX-550 again coz it only use to launch satellite,it not an attack missile with serous warhead.
Ur bomber is not better than B-52, right, and we shot down a dozen of B-52 just by outdated SA-2 so let alone Aussie with far better anti-aircraft system.

See? you are not sticking to the points of the discussion. Am I talking about whether AH64D and F16 can be used against Aussie? I am talking about how the U.S sees Indonesia as an important associate by giving us clearance to have AH 64 D which is not all country can get it, and free F16s are also not an ordinary gift if Indonesia was not important to the U.S.

800 km? Don't worry, this year Indonesia will conduct a test with rockets able to carry out payload up to 900 km away.
Here's the quote from a news from last year.

Indonesia to launch a three-digit rocket in 2013

Jakarta (ANTARA News) - Indonesia is planning to launch a three-digit rocket, with a range of 100km to 900km, to strengthen its artillery system. Indonesia is planning to launch the rocket next year.

"Next year, we will conduct static and dynamic tests on a three-digit rocket," said Goenawan Wybiesana, who works as an assistant to the deputy minister for research and technology - strategic, scientific and technological research productivity, on Thursday.

Antara News : Indonesia to launch a three-digit rocket in 2013

Do you understand about rockets? Missiles are basically a rocket with guidance system. Our RX series are the rocket platform, the platform can be used to launch satellite or bring warhead. we can turn those rocket by filling its payload with explosive and crash it to targets.

Again, we are not talking about the possibility of the Australian Air Defense shooting down our bombers, we are talking about threat. Anyway, Indonesia will never be in war with Aussie, why do we even bring Aussie into this discussion?

CBU-55 can make a fireball over a 4-acre (16,000 m2) area. napalm bombs only can make a minor damage compared with CBU-55.

yeah, see if those CBU 55s are still active, those CBU 55 you possess are the first generation and Vietnam has no bomber equivalent to bring such a big bomb right? How can that be a threat when those bombs are just stored in storages?

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

I can speak VNese fluently , and I've posted many link here in VNese and translated to English, too. My IP also from VN. Unlike u, u never can prove that you know how to speak Indonesian. Building the ASEAN Political-Security Community bring lots of benefit for VN such as we won't be scared of US-China's sanction anymore etc, so I support it

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent."

Tanya Nufix sono wong jowo ora aye.

At the cost of your country sovereignty?

 

[nufix]

Tanya Nufix sono wong jowo ora aye.

Hahaha kasih doi bahasa Indo lah, bingung dia bahasa Jawa.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Hahaha kasih doi bahasa Indo lah, bingung dia bahasa Jawa.

Gak sudi kalo ama dia mas

 

[nufix]

Gak sudi kalo ama dia mas

untung situ makenya indo tanpa ejaan yang semestinya, kalo ga bisa di google translate, sakit ati dia. haha

All right, let's get back to the topic.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Time for a rethink on Asean integration

Mong Palatino
Global Voices February 7, 2013 1:00 am
Asean has plans to fast track the integration of its member countries over the next few years. Aside from encouraging cooperation through traditional diplomatic and cultural activities, there are also ambitious proposals for Asean to issue a single visa and currency, and even form a united regional Olympic team.
The advantages of a united Asean are easy to imagine. A cohesive Asean would likely bring tremendous benefits to Southeast Asians in the forms of more jobs, more tourists, stronger defence forces and improved camaraderie among competing neighbours. Besides, who would oppose the idea of unity and greater economic coordination in the region?

But Asean's basic problem is not merely an absence of unity. Wasn't unity the main objective of Asean when it was established in 1967? The fact that after four decades, the group is still pushing to integrate its 10 member countries suggests a pretty significant failure to foster solidarity in the region.

Without undermining the laudable efforts of the Asean Secretariat, many doubt it can realise the One Community vision by its announced target date of 2015. How can it, if it continues to use the same approach that has singularly failed to unite its members to date?

Asean unity will remain an impossible vision as long as its members continue to demand it for the wrong reasons. In truth, each member nation views its association with Asean as a means to pursue its national interests. Sacrificing the national agenda to realise the regional good is largely an alien concept to Asean members. Member nations are in favour of unity as long as it doesn't conflict with their respective national objectives.

To be sure, Asean has successfully coordinated aid and relief efforts when natural disasters have devastated the region. But the group should be more than the region's answer to Red Cross.

But such instances are usually when Asean unity is invoked, namely, when a member is overwhelmed by a problem it can't solve or when it is affected by a neighbour's woes. Today, for example, we hear demands for Asean to intervene in Myanmar's Rohingya issue, maritime disputes in the South China Sea or West Philippine Sea, and human trafficking across the region. Asean's next step will most likely be to decide whether to issue a joint statement to address these issues.

In the absence of disasters, and in between ministerial conferences, however, Asean has failed to engage in the essential task of building regional unity. Asean hasn't even been able to prevent members from accusing each other of being bad neighbours. East Timor's attempts to join the club have been blocked by Singapore, among others, which view its entry as a threat to their national interests, although the reason given to the public is usually East Timor's internal conflicts.

Ultimately, Asean's unwillingness to form a more united and powerful regional grouping has been exploited by global powers like the United States, China and Japan, which are aggressively promoting their geopolitical interests in the region. A unified Asean could challenge the political and economic resources of these big nations. Instead, each Asean member has preferred to negotiate individually. It's tragic enough that Asean is not united. It's more tragic to hear members articulate and advance the interests of non-Asean superpowers during Asean summits.

At the minimum, a united Asean could prevent colonial powers old and new from dominating the region. But that's just a start. After asserting its independence, it would be great to see Asean aspire to become a global power in its own right. With this vision in mind, perhaps it's time to unite and promote the Southeast Asian way of life as a viable alternative to the world.

Time for a rethink on Asean integration - The Nation

ASEAN should stay as a Regional forum!

 

[NiceGuy]

Dude, are you delusional? You can't even stick to the discussion points. We are not talking about whether the accusation is a lie or not, it is about the possibility of China and U.S simultaneously embargoing Indonesia which is unlikely as I told you. God, now I know why most people tired to talk some senses to you, you always derail the topic.

And I'm trying to explain to Reashot Xigwin why we need to build the ASEAN Political-Security Community. No ASEAN member( including Indonesia) can stand against US-China sanction. So why don't we stand together to counter against any threat ??

If u don't wanna join, then fine, just stay alone and don't call us for help when trouble with US happen. U can't hope for any help from China,too coz China don't help Iran to please US now .

800 km? Don't worry, this year Indonesia will conduct a test with rockets able to carry out payload up to 900 km away.
Here's the quote from a news from last year.

Do you understand about rockets? Missiles are basically a rocket with guidance system. Our RX series are the rocket platform, the platform can be used to launch satellite or bring warhead. we can turn those rocket by filling its payload with explosive and crash it to targets.

Again, we are not talking about the possibility of the Australian Air Defense shooting down our bombers, we are talking about threat. Anyway, Indonesia will never be in war with Aussie, why do we even bring Aussie into this discussion?

And you need a place to produce warhead to fit with your missile, do u have any plan to produce warhead for ur ballistic missile now ??

I drag Aussie in coz she's the US's close ally ,she will feel so worry when u can possess a missile that reach to her land, and of course whe will ask US to stop ur plan. US won't stop u except u're really important to her.

yeah, see if those CBU 55s are still active, those CBU 55 you possess are the first generation and Vietnam has no bomber equivalent to bring such a big bomb right? How can that be a threat when those bombs are just stored in storages?

US use transport plane to drop this bomb, so we can use modified Boeing 747 to drop it too.

untung situ makenya indo tanpa ejaan yang semestinya, kalo ga bisa di google translate, sakit ati dia. haha

All right, let's get back to the topic.

U means I can't translate it properly by google translate ?? Oki, at least I will try to understand the key words