Arundhati says Cong is double-faced on Maoists

[Jade]

The biggest achievement of India, if you ask me, in last 65 years, since Independence, is its flourishing democracy. I disagree with Ms Roy on democracy in India being in a state of emergency. Democracy is a great equalizer. No democracy is perfect nor is it ever going to perfect. The need of hour is to make democracy more perfect so has to reduce the poverty.

Anyway, what is the alternative to democracy? I can think none

 

[deepak75]

Most of the points you have raised have already been answered. They do not fight elections because they do not believe in elections. They want to overthrow democracy, not join it. Also they attack schools because these are schools only in name, most of them are CRPF camps.

Do you also have a "totka" solution for any of the ills of the tribals or is yours just a case of shoot at everything and scoot and leave the mess for others to clean?

Because no one from the BJP school of thought in India can debate properly.

So is that why you close your mind to any suggestions that may be to the contrary to your belief.

More like a fascist party.

And yet if you read your previous statement you will find that it reeks of fascism.

I did not say so. I have no problem with conservatives or centrists. The BJP and their cronies, the fundamentalists of Christianity and Islam are the exception .

And why Sir do you think should you not be labelled as a fundamentalist? What is it if not extremism that your are advocating by supporting voilnce by the naxals. What benefit have the naxals generated for the tribals?

 

[ek_indian]

@Nemesis:

So basically you are saying in other words, maoist are working againt Indian establishment. Well....why should not they be mercilessly crushed because of anti-social activities.

You talked about Maoist/Naxals not believing in Indian system. But they never tell which system they would put in place. If they are opposing democracy, it shows they are too hungry for power. Had Indian been a communist or maoist state in real sense, its leaders are long gone.

 

[Skeptic]

A request to everyone:
Try to dicuss the topic not the inividual, be it any of the members or Arundhari Roy. Also discussion should be based on the actual article rather than IBN mash-pash.

It'll be nice to see a proper debate rather than meaning-less mud slinging.

My observations on the issue
1) Maoist / Naxals and their voilnt methods should not and can not be supported but Tribals need the support.
2) We have heard of several deployment of forces to counter the Naxal menace, but we have hardly seen any announcement of new development project by the government.
3) A communication mechanism need to be developed with deputed people from both sides available for talks roud the clock.
4) We immidiately need mediators who can bridge the divide between govt. and extremists. Arundhati herself can fit the bill.
5) Core feature of any negotiations/discussion has to be renouncing voilence. We need action on dialogue table and not on ground.

 

[Nemesis]

And why Sir do you think should you not be labelled as a fundamentalist? What is it if not extremism that your are advocating by supporting voilnce by the naxals. What benefit have the naxals generated for the tribals?

Where the hell did i say i support Maoists? I do not. However that does not mean i support things like "operation Greenhunt" which does more harm than good.

The maoist don't want the bigger companies coming in because they probably can get government protection & it would ruin the illegal mining companies who are now paying tax to the Maoists & not to the Indian state.

The truth, my friend is rarely as cut & dry as you would probably imagine it to be. If Government officials can be bought & bribed by MNC's as alleged by you, so too can the Maoists. They too are Indians after all, not having come as divine saviours from another planet as many would like to believe.

The difference is the state legitimizes itself through elections, the maoists arrogate that power to themselves without being answerable no matter who they claim to speak for.

Who cares about the Maoists? I do not support a violent revolutionary ideology, nor have i expressed any sympathy for them. I have expressed sympathy for tribals, they have turned towards the Maoists because the Government has failed them. Instead of addressing this problem, the government has decided to launch an armed operation and has decided to bracket anyone who protests forced land acquisition as a naxal supporter. Such a response will end up killing innocents who are only fighting for their land, a stifling of protests against government action and alienating more tribals. What part of this do you people find hard to understand?

 

[Dash]

I guess it will be wise for all of us to delink Arundhati Roy from Maoists issue.
her openion diesnt count much anyway...

Maoism itself is an issue where govt has to do whatever is necessary.

What she says doesnt matter much...Thats reality, coz giving openions is easy.

Ask the soldier who got killed by maoists if he feels teh same way.
Ask the hundereds who die every day in India and Pakistan, if they feel teh same way.

Ask the army which fights terrorists everyday, if they feel the same way..

When they doent feel the same way.
It doesnt matter how she feels..However she is a good writer and our citizen, She is free to say what ever she wishes to say.

Criticism has its own advantages. Take it that way...

 

[Skeptic]

When we fail to discriminate between Tribals and Maoist, it is actually a victory for the extremists. Tribals played into the hands of these Maoist due to lack f any political leadership. All the political leaders were worried about was their share from the loot in these Tribal areas, where Maoist came in a the Robinhood (from tribal prespective) promising them a fair share from the land they have always owned. 40% of tribals have been relocated since independence, have we ever bothered to look at the details of what happened to them later?

 

[jbond197]

Please learn the meaning of name calling, I'm directly and factually stating that the people who have used phrases like "Bit<h", "I'll marry her to my dog" and various other wonderful adjectives should either go to an Indian fish market for their debates or crawl back into the hole they stepped out of.

We have worked hard for the quality of this forum and can do without such pathetic posters.

Thanks Asim for making clear the rules to maintain dignity/quality of the forum. I hope these will be aplicable to all irrespective of their country of origin. I will try myself and would request fellow members (irrespective of flag they hold) to report similar comments to Mods/Asim in case we come across similar forum rule violation from any quater.

 

[deepak75]

A request to everyone:
Try to dicuss the topic not the inividual, be it any of the members or Arundhari Roy. Also discussion should be based on the actual article rather than IBN mash-pash.

It'll be nice to see a proper debate rather than meaning-less mud slinging.

While I seriously take your opinion on most things my friend but I will disagree here.

Arundhati Roy's thoughts and that of her ilk's stand for nothing but to drive a shamless individual advantage out of a cause which is plaguing the poorest of our countrymen. By providing any space to her by anyone in the nation is tantamount to partner with her in this exploitation of the cause of the tribals and adivasis.

The following is what Arundhati Roy said after the Mumbai attacks. Read it and figure out yourself why yielding any space to her is a total mockery of our democracy.

Arundhati Roy: Mumbai was not India's 9/11 | World news | guardian.co.uk

Even in the times of grief shared by one and all in India she did not desist from trying to drive a wedge between communities here in India. I am all for listening to intellectuals but not from the ones who flog the horse only for the sake of it.

My observations on the issue
1) Maoist / Naxals and their voilnt methods should not and can not be supported but Tribals need the support.

The first step in trying to support the Tribals is to alienate them from Arundhati's naxals who have morphed in to the local mafia.

2) We have heard of several deployment of forces to counter the Naxal menace, but we have hardly seen any announcement of new development project by the government.

Any development project that is accounced at the moment will be put an adverse spin by these of our pseudo-socialists as another method of exploitation of the tribals. So what is needed is first to create a situation of order on the ground and parrallely as the naxal infested areas are cleared, create job opportunities. This will be a long haul and will not go away in a day. We will need to win the trust back of our tribals and at the same time ensure that the irritants such as Arundhati and her naxals continue to recede in making any impact on the process.

3) A communication mechanism need to be developed with deputed people from both sides available for talks roud the clock.

What makes you think my friend that the naxals will allow any communication with tribals to be successful. They can thrive only in this chaos and that is why they are creating it. They are now used to wielding this godly power and nothing short of a strong handed response will stop these criminals.

4) We immidiately need mediators who can bridge the divide between govt. and extremists. Arundhati herself can fit the bill.

Arundhati can only fit a khadi and nothing else in the Indian democracy. Her churlish and opportunistic positions on various matters makes her a very dangerous commodity to be even near ground zero at the moment.

What is needed is a direct negotiation and development team from the Center to be camping in the tribal areas. They need us to be there. 24 x 7 and need to know that we will not abandon them to the naxals onc again. This needs to happen over a long time and only then will the results start coming in.

5) Core feature of any negotiations/discussion has to be renouncing voilence. We need action on dialogue table and not on ground.

If the naxals were to renounce voilence as easily then we would not be having these unscrupulous acts of terrorism almost everyday. The worst part is that even tribals are also dying in this madness that these criminals are enacting.

 

[deepak75]

Where the hell did i say i support Maoists? I do not. However that does not mean i support things like "operation Greenhunt" which does more harm than good.

I am at loss at the purpose that you are trying to advocate Sir. You say that you do not advocate the carnage that the maoists are spreading against the state forces and civilians in various ways like derailing trains, blasting mines, chopping heads or sometimes if the victims are lucky, simple murders.

Now how do you propose that this voilence be addressed and please propose the alternative operation whatever hunt or non-hunt that you think will do the job.

Either the state takes a firm stand to first let these criminals know that the nation means business or we just let some more dantewadas happen till the pacifists see the truth. But my point with the waitiing is that why should we put a lesser premium on the life of a soldier than we are putting on these rag tag criminals? What is the fault of that poor son of a farmer who believed in our system and is out there fighting for our thankless souls that we even abandon him and wait till there are enough dead before we start giving these criminals their due?

Who cares about the Maoists? I do not support a violent revolutionary ideology, nor have i expressed any sympathy for them. I have expressed sympathy for tribals, they have turned towards the Maoists because the Government has failed them. Instead of addressing this problem, the government has decided to launch an armed operation and has decided to bracket anyone who protests forced land acquisition as a naxal supporter. Such a response will end up killing innocents who are only fighting for their land, a stifling of protests against government action and alienating more tribals. What part of this do you people find hard to understand?

Now why would you say that? If it was the objective of the government to go and kill anything and everything that moves in that region then do you expect that Chidambaram would have been waiting and advocating tolerance as he is doing today. Do you really think that it will take more than a few days for the Army or even the Para Military to run thru this bunch of goondas if they are given a free hand to do so?

What is hurting these activists is not that they will not be allowed to be close to their dear tribals. What is hurting them more is that they are being weeded out of the region because they are unwanted. And I agree with this approach. The first step has to be to deliver a telling blow to the naxals so that the tribals have an alternative in the government. Today they do not and if we want to create even an iota of the opportunity for the developments of the tribals to happen then first we need to weed out this bunch of benevolent individuals who are running with the hares and hunting with the hounds.

 

[prodevelopment]

Please learn the meaning of name calling, I'm directly and factually stating that the people who have used phrases like "Bit<h", "I'll marry her to my dog" and various other wonderful adjectives should either go to an Indian fish market for their debates or crawl back into the hole they stepped out of.

We have worked hard for the quality of this forum and can do without such pathetic posters.

If you take offense at one post, kindly apply the same rule to posters like khalidali who abuse your president in their signature.

 

[deepak75]

Please learn the meaning of name calling, I'm directly and factually stating that the people who have used phrases like "Bit<h", "I'll marry her to my dog" and various other wonderful adjectives should either go to an Indian fish market for their debates or crawl back into the hole they stepped out of.

We have worked hard for the quality of this forum and can do without such pathetic posters.

Sir, while I agree with the purpose that you are trying to achieve here, I take exception to your alluding that an Indian fish market being appropriate place for such a language. In your and my country, merely saying fish market would have been enough I am sure.

I am sure that you will empathize with my views on your post as the intention together is to ensure the quality of the discussion on this forum and I am sure that most of us try to come up to decorum expected.

 

[Skeptic]

While I seriously take your opinion on most things my friend but I will disagree here.

Arundhati Roy's thoughts and that of her ilk's stand for nothing but to drive a shamless individual advantage out of a cause which is plaguing the poorest of our countrymen. By providing any space to her by anyone in the nation is tantamount to partner with her in this exploitation of the cause of the tribals and adivasis.

The following is what Arundhati Roy said after the Mumbai attacks. Read it and figure out yourself why yielding any space to her is a total mockery of our democracy.

Arundhati Roy: Mumbai was not India's 9/11 | World news | guardian.co.uk

Even in the times of grief shared by one and all in India she did not desist from trying to drive a wedge between communities here in India. I am all for listening to intellectuals but not from the ones who flog the horse only for the sake of it.

I am not here to defend Arundhati, she does not need that. I am suggesting a simple rule: Target the message not the messanger. While we are not bound for support we should not be bound for opposition as well. As you have mentioned that you are generally in agreement with me on most issues, but in disagreement on the rest, I would say that I am in agreement with Arundhati on Narmada Bachao issue and against her on the 9/11 issue. I would rather take her opinions on the naxal issue as just another take rather than gospel of truth. So attack her views all you want but suggestions like marrying her to a dog and hanging her is a bit too far fetched and reminds me of another neighbouring country where such measures are actually handed out to individuals opposing the govt. views.

The first step in trying to support the Tribals is to alienate them from Arundhati's naxals who have morphed in to the local mafia.

Yeah but what steps are being taken to do that. Will the deployment of more para milletary forces do the job. And god-forbid, if army enters the scene, their heavy handedness might just escalate the issue reinforcing the accusation made by Naxals portraying India as a fascist state.

Any development project that is accounced at the moment will be put an adverse spin by these of our pseudo-socialists as another method of exploitation of the tribals. So what is needed is first to create a situation of order on the ground and parrallely as the naxal infested areas are cleared, create job opportunities. This will be a long haul and will not go away in a day. We will need to win the trust back of our tribals and at the same time ensure that the irritants such as Arundhati and her naxals continue to recede in making any impact on the process.

When has to be the key. Right now we are seeing BJP giving full support to Govt on Naxal issues and naxals at their voilent most. Strike while the iron is hot.

What makes you think my friend that the naxals will allow any communication with tribals to be successful. They can thrive only in this chaos and that is why they are creating it. They are now used to wielding this godly power and nothing short of a strong handed response will stop these criminals.

No communications I am suggesting communication with the Naxals not just tribals, not as them being representative of tribals but as a discontented group. There has never been a sustained meaningful dialogue till date and problems have not always been from the Naxal's side.

Arundhati can only fit a khadi and nothing else in the Indian democracy. Her churlish and opportunistic positions on various matters makes her a very dangerous commodity to be even near ground zero at the moment.

that is a rant.

What is needed is a direct negotiation and development team from the Center to be camping in the tribal areas. They need us to be there. 24 x 7 and need to know that we will not abandon them to the naxals onc again. This needs to happen over a long time and only then will the results start coming in.

It has to be a multi pronged solution. It is not a problem that was created in a year or so. It has been there since the sixties and will not be resolved immidiately. Another suggestion I had was to try pilot projects on certain areas for tribals instead of the entire belt and then look at the results,

If the naxals were to renounce voilence as easily then we would not be having these unscrupulous acts of terrorism almost everyday. The worst part is that even tribals are also dying in this madness that these criminals are enacting.

They will renounce violence and the tribals they harp their support from will force them to even if they are unwilling. We have to generate support from the tribals and we need to win their confidence. At any cost.

 

[deepak75]

So attack her views all you want but suggestions like marrying her to a dog and hanging her is a bit too far fetched and reminds me of another neighbouring country where such measures are actually handed out to individuals opposing the govt. views.

I agree with you Sir about the need to maintain the decorum and individual respectability on the forum but since that my Brutus is a Greate Dane, I cannot say that the thought had not crossed my mind.

Yeah but what steps are being taken to do that. Will the deployment of more para milletary forces do the job. And god-forbid, if army enters the scene, their heavy handedness might just escalate the issue reinforcing the accusation made by Naxals portraying India as a fascist state.

That is exactly why this has to be a step by step process and that is why Chidambaram is waiting. This one will be a thankless matter for Congress. Any which way, if there are mass casualities, they will lose. Either they will be branded soft (security forces losses) or they will be brandished anti public (heavy losses on the naxal side).

When has to be the key. Right now we are seeing BJP giving full support to Govt on Naxal issues and naxals at their voilent most. Strike while the iron is hot.

Even if BJP is supporting currently, they will be the first party to backtrack and jump on the government if there are any losses of innocent lives in this process of attacking the naxals.

So rather, there is a need to decimate the support for naxals by the jholewalas, develop good intelligence network and target small and important groups. The naxals are criminals, they are not fighting for an ideology, that is a farce. They are mere gangs who are committing crimes for profits.

No communications I am suggesting communication with the Naxals not just tribals, not as them being representative of tribals but as a discontented group. There has never been a sustained meaningful dialogue till date and problems have not always been from the Naxal's side.

Any communication with Naxals will not be successful till the government negotiates from a position of strength. This could be any of ways including first neutralizing the leadership of the naxals or some of the hardcore irredeemable individuals in the naxal organizations. So that has to happen first.

that is a rant.

Sir, if you consider that a rant then please provide a single incidence wherein Arundhati's antics have led to the alleviation of misery of the tribals. Else, please accept that she is only a Khadi deep activist and that too a bad one.

It has to be a multi pronged solution. It is not a problem that was created in a year or so. It has been there since the sixties and will not be resolved immidiately. Another suggestion I had was to try pilot projects on certain areas for tribals instead of the entire belt and then look at the results,

They will renounce violence and the tribals they harp their support from will force them to even if they are unwilling. We have to generate support from the tribals and we need to win their confidence. At any cost.

I agree with you Sir. There is no quick fix to this scenario and we will need to prepare to be committed and gain the trust of the tribals and educate them that the farming of their resources does not necessarily mean wealth drain and they need to be made part of the success story with due benefits accuring to them.

 

[Chinna Gounder]

Most of the points you have raised have already been answered. They do not fight elections because they do not believe in elections. They want to overthrow democracy, not join it.

More than Enough reason to get rid of them.Dont want to loose my freedom to a bunch of Reds.

Because no one from the BJP school of thought in India can debate properly.

May i know wat prompted u to say so..?

More like a fascist party.

Nope..its actually the only nationalist,secular party among a bunch of pseudo-sickular ones.

I did not say so. I have no problem with conservatives or centrists. The BJP and their cronies, the fundamentalists of Christianity and Islam are the exception .

please dont equate BJP with any fundamentalists.It only shows ur lack of ground knowledge.
On wat basis they are fascist...care to elaborate.?