Army to get steep-dive BrahMos missile regiment for China front

[Allen Iverson]

The question is who will care after a missile is used in a war
That is how far the Brahmos came

Whom will you complain to

I couldn't quite get the notion, but the Emojis suggest you are being funny.. Hence cheers..

 

[Omega007]

Lol, Brahmos isn't "hypersonic"...

It's super sonic at best..

CM-4000AKG in Pakistan's arsenal is hypersonic with MACH 4+ terminal speed

CM-400AKG isn't really a cruise missile, it falls into a different category of missiles by itself, like a miniaturised air launched version of something like the Iskander or K 15 Shaurya, which builds up altitude in its initial phase and then use this altitude to gain supersonic speed with a steep dive in its terminal phase.

MTCR really screwed the range of Brahmos, only 290 km. Normally cruise missiles will tend to have a range of over 1000+ km.

That was true up until a few months ago, but now, the paradigms have changed!!As you already know, Brahmos is a version of of the Yakhont, which itself is nothing other than the export version of the P 800 Oniks, which has a maximum range of 600 km in hi-lo flight configuration.Both missiles have got same dimensions, same warhead weight and uses make use of the same ramjet propulsion system, the only difference is the amount of fuel in them!!That's how they reduce the range in order to comply with the MTCR guidelines - by filling the fuel tanks in the export variants to the half of capacities.
But now that we have become a member of the MTCR, we can increase the range of our brahmos to its full potential of 600 km, same as the Oniks.
And by the way, which Mach 3 class cruise missile with a weight of 3 tons has range beyond 1000 kms??I'm curious.

Do you really believe that India will induct this Missile so rapidly in all the three forces with so much number if its range is only 290 Kms.. If you believe so then you are a fool..

Actually, maximum range of the Brahmos was indeed 290 km, or should I say, it was indeed capped at 290 kms in order to comply with the MTCR guidelines, which Russia happens to be a signatory to.And 290 kms was deemed perfectly optimum at that time since, because it was at first developed as an anti ship missile which would make it among the longest range AShMs.

The MTCR norms controls a delivery platform which can deliver a warhead weighing 500 Kg beyond 300 Kms to be sold by a MTCR member country to a non MTCR country..

True.

When the programme started as a joint venture, the Brahmos aerospace faced challenges in upgrading the propulsion tech as well as downgrading the Warhead weight to less than 300 KG which will theoretically double the range of originally 300 KM range missile carrying a 500 KG warhead..

Nonsense, utter nonsense!!The actual solution was far simpler than you think.

DRDO had a break through in terms high yield conventional war head

If you are talking about the CL 20, then it was developed much too later for what you are saying to be true!!And in any case, its status remains unclear mostly owing to its exorbitant production cost.Oh and by the way, CL 20 isn't really the '20 times stronger than RDX' miracle compound out of the 'Land of the Ozz', which most people have led to believe by that nincompoop named Ajay Shukla!!I mean he just cooked up some bs figures right from his behind and presented it to the masses with a craftily written article and the people took it!!

and now the Brahmos is Approx carrying a 250 Kg warhead..

It's 300 kg actually, if we are to take the words of the chairman of Brahmos Aerospace, and it has been 300 from the very beginning.

The warhead weight could be so minimal yet so devastating the explosion is because of the exceptional Kinetic energy attained during the Terminal and Mid course phase.. Reports suggest that, the hull were cut into two halves when they tested the recent version..

You got that one right.

So do the math on your own about the range of the missile with the details I have given..

Ummm.......he can't do the math, actually nobody can and nobody will, at least not based on whatever 'details' you have given nobody would, because all your so called details is nothing other than your assumptions, which is based on wrong info about the figures and insufficient knowledge and understanding of the physics involved!!

Just a very basic calculation, if a Missile can carry 500 KG and travel 300 Kms, how much distance the same missile will travel if it carries a 250 kg warhead..???

Can you do this 'just a very basic calculation' of yours by yourself??Don't answer it, I already know your answer and trust me, it's anything but on the mark!!

even a primary school kid will answer this question..
@Levina @500 @Kinetic @Rajaraja Chola @RISING SUN @Abingdonboy

Of course he (or she) can, but will it be the right answer??Well, I've got my doubts.

 

[Allen Iverson]

Actually, maximum range of the Brahmos was indeed 290 km, or should I say, it was indeed capped at 290 kms in order to comply with the MTCR guidelines, which Russia happens to be a signatory to.And 290 kms was deemed perfectly optimum at that time since, because it was at first developed as an anti ship missile which would make it among the longest range AShMs.

Yes it is an Antiship derivative of yakhont and indian navy was the first one to show its interest in PJ-10 among the tri services.. But the DRDO saw far greater scope to develop in this platform thanks to the Project head Dr Sivathanu Pillai, and hence they chose to have a joint venture with Russians.. There was nothing new that India developed in it.. It was a very matured and complete platform from day one, completely fulfilling the MTCR guidelines.. But why was it taken up as a joint venture project between Russians is that, the Ideas India possessed provided far more commercial viability for this Missile..

 

[Omega007]

Yes it is an Antiship derivative of yakhont and indian navy was the first one to show its interest in PJ-10 among the tri services.. But the DRDO saw far greater scope to develop in this platform thanks to the Project head Dr Sivathanu Pillai, and hence they chose to have a joint venture with Russians.. There was nothing new that India developed in it.. It was a very matured and complete platform from day one, completely fulfilling the MTCR guidelines.. But why was it taken up as a joint venture project between Russians is that, the Ideas India possessed provided far more commercial viability for this Missile..

The part in bold is not entirely correct since the entire navigation and guidance system along with the target identification algorithms of the seeker had to be developed from scratch, which was done by the DRDO. And besides, a lot of other components including the seekers have since been replaced by Indian designed components.

Below, you can see the CGI image of the new SAR seeker (with increased tracking range, ECCM and better resolution compared to the earlier one) for Brahmos Block III, designed and developed by LRDE and manufactured by Datapatterns.

And here is the actual prototype :

And here is the original seeker, from the 90s

 

[CorporateAffairs]

Indian media backed by Anti national congress only reports Chinese incursions, but doesn't report how India responded to it.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Do you really believe that India will induct this Missile so rapidly in all the three forces with so much number if its range is only 290 Kms.. If you believe so then you are a fool..
The MTCR norms controls a delivery platform which can deliver a warhead weighing 500 Kg beyond 300 Kms to be sold by a MTCR member country to a non MTCR country..
When the programme started as a joint venture, the Brahmos aerospace faced challenges in upgrading the propulsion tech as well as downgrading the Warhead weight to less than 300 KG which will theoretically double the range of originally 300 KM range missile carrying a 500 KG warhead.. DRDO had a break through in terms high yield conventional war head and now the Brahmos is Approx carrying a 250 Kg warhead.. The warhead weight could be so minimal yet so devastating the explosion is because of the exceptional Kinetic energy attained during the Terminal and Mid course phase.. Reports suggest that, the hull were cut into two halves when they tested the recent version.. So do the math on your own about the range of the missile with the details I have given..
Just a very basic calculation, if a Missile can carry 500 KG and travel 300 Kms, how much distance the same missile will travel if it carries a 250 kg warhead..??? even a primary school kid will answer this question..
@Levina @500 @Kinetic @Rajaraja Chola @RISING SUN @Abingdonboy

Actually. That's y Brahmos 2 with extended range is being made by the Indians. Its not as if Brahmos 1 does not carry more than 300 km. But Indo-Russia collabration must be within MTCR commitments.

 

[RISING SUN]

Do you really believe that India will induct this Missile so rapidly in all the three forces with so much number if its range is only 290 Kms.. If you believe so then you are a fool..
The MTCR norms controls a delivery platform which can deliver a warhead weighing 500 Kg beyond 300 Kms to be sold by a MTCR member country to a non MTCR country..
When the programme started as a joint venture, the Brahmos aerospace faced challenges in upgrading the propulsion tech as well as downgrading the Warhead weight to less than 300 KG which will theoretically double the range of originally 300 KM range missile carrying a 500 KG warhead.. DRDO had a break through in terms high yield conventional war head and now the Brahmos is Approx carrying a 250 Kg warhead.. The warhead weight could be so minimal yet so devastating the explosion is because of the exceptional Kinetic energy attained during the Terminal and Mid course phase.. Reports suggest that, the hull were cut into two halves when they tested the recent version.. So do the math on your own about the range of the missile with the details I have given..
Just a very basic calculation, if a Missile can carry 500 KG and travel 300 Kms, how much distance the same missile will travel if it carries a 250 kg warhead..??? even a primary school kid will answer this question..
@Levina @500 @Kinetic @Rajaraja Chola @RISING SUN @Abingdonboy

Many posters don't think the technicality with which Bramhos gives the versatile weapon which not only can be used by aerial, land, ships or under sea platforms to provide multi role capabilities reliving the pressure to look for different missiles for different tasks. Yes it's multi role missile. Steep dive or extreme maneuverability while still having supersonic is OK to have but the reliability which this system gives to defence forces is mind boggling. It's like a faithful friend who is always there to back you up whenever you need it. Thank you.

 

[RISING SUN]

Do you really believe that India will induct this Missile so rapidly in all the three forces with so much number if its range is only 290 Kms.. If you believe so then you are a fool..
The MTCR norms controls a delivery platform which can deliver a warhead weighing 500 Kg beyond 300 Kms to be sold by a MTCR member country to a non MTCR country..
When the programme started as a joint venture, the Brahmos aerospace faced challenges in upgrading the propulsion tech as well as downgrading the Warhead weight to less than 300 KG which will theoretically double the range of originally 300 KM range missile carrying a 500 KG warhead.. DRDO had a break through in terms high yield conventional war head and now the Brahmos is Approx carrying a 250 Kg warhead.. The warhead weight could be so minimal yet so devastating the explosion is because of the exceptional Kinetic energy attained during the Terminal and Mid course phase.. Reports suggest that, the hull were cut into two halves when they tested the recent version.. So do the math on your own about the range of the missile with the details I have given..
Just a very basic calculation, if a Missile can carry 500 KG and travel 300 Kms, how much distance the same missile will travel if it carries a 250 kg warhead..??? even a primary school kid will answer this question..
@Levina @500 @Kinetic @Rajaraja Chola @RISING SUN @Abingdonboy

Many posters don't think the technicality with which Bramhos gives the versatile weapon which not only can be used by aerial, land, ships or under sea platforms to provide multi role capabilities reliving the pressure to look for different missiles for different tasks. Yes it's multi role missile. Steep dive or extreme maneuverability while still having supersonic is OK to have but the reliability which this system gives to defence forces is mind boggling. It's like a faithful friend who is always there to back you up whenever you need it. Thank you.

 

[Omega007]

Actually. That's y Brahmos 2 with extended range is being made by the Indians.

Not really.

Its not as if Brahmos 1 does not carry more than 300 km. But Indo-Russia collabration must be within MTCR commitments.

Now that we have become an official member of the MTCR, there remains no need to keep the range capped at 290 km, nothing stops us now from extending the existing range to the P 800 Onik's original range of 600 km in hi-lo configuration, by filling up the fuel tanks to their maximum capacities, which earlier had to be kept at half in order to comply with the MTCR guidelines.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Not really.

Now that we have become an official member of the MTCR, there remains no need to keep the range capped at 290 km, nothing stops us now from extending the existing range to the P 800 Onik's original range of 600 km in hi-lo configuration, by filling up the fuel tanks to their maximum capacities, which earlier had to be kept at half in order to comply with the MTCR guidelines.

U mean now MTCR members can do business with missile range more than 300 km but warhead less than 500 kg? But that's the same criteria fa non MTCR country too right?

 

[Omega007]

U mean now MTCR members can do business with missile range more than 300 km but warhead less than 500 kg? But that's the same criteria fa non MTCR country too right?

No, the signatories can trade such missiles among themselves without the restrictions, or so I've heard.That's one of the reason why India was so keen on getting into this 'club'.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

No, the signatories can trade such missiles among themselves without the restrictions, or so I've heard.That's one of the reason why India was so keen on getting into this 'club'.

No. We cant. If that's the case, we would be getting advanced seekers for next gen ICBM's which no one will sell. The restriction is capped at 500 kg warhead, where it is tough to put in a Nuk warhead.

US- Britain agreement is a different one. Even though UK subs have US Nuclear tipped ICBM's, UK cannot launch it without explicit permission from US. Indirectly its a big proliferation

In effect its a Nuclear umbrella provided by US to countries like UK, Japan, S.korea and some NATO countries.

I am still confused on the range though. @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy can help.

 

[Omega007]

No. We cant. If that's the case, we would be getting advanced seekers for next gen ICBM's which no one will sell. The restriction is capped at 500 kg warhead, where it is tough to put in a Nuk warhead.

US- Britain agreement is a different one. Even though UK subs have US Nuclear tipped ICBM's, UK cannot launch it without explicit permission from US. Indirectly its a big proliferation

In effect its a Nuclear umbrella provided by US to countries like UK, Japan, S.korea and some NATO countries.

I am still confused on the range though. @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy can help.

I was talking about the range restriction, I said nothing about payload.

 

[Abingdonboy]

MTCR really screwed the range of Brahmos, only 290 km. Normally cruise missiles will tend to have a range of over 1000+ km.

This has been discussed to death sir, the DRDO had explicitly stated whilst India was was still an outside the MTCR that the Brahmos range could easily be 550km using a specific flight path. Now the MTCR has opened its doors to India the true potential (that was always open to India but behind closed doors) of the Brahmos will be exploited (1000km may be possible).

 

[Oldman1]

No. We cant. If that's the case, we would be getting advanced seekers for next gen ICBM's which no one will sell. The restriction is capped at 500 kg warhead, where it is tough to put in a Nuk warhead.

US- Britain agreement is a different one. Even though UK subs have US Nuclear tipped ICBM's, UK cannot launch it without explicit permission from US. Indirectly its a big proliferation

In effect its a Nuclear umbrella provided by US to countries like UK, Japan, S.korea and some NATO countries.

I am still confused on the range though. @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy can help.

Thats a myth. The U.K. can launch missiles independently even its U.S. made. And they don't need permission from U.S.