Army’s rifle plan; 10kg burden on soldiers, $250mn on us

[Whazzup]

A multi caliber rifle would need to have a barrel tailored to that caliber , there are rifles which have barrels that can be interchanged for different caliber but they are typically sniper rifles if I am not wrong. There is a sniper/assault rifle that involves changing the barrels too I forgot what model that was.

I.e
Sniper Rifle

We are working in a joint venture with EDM Arms, USA we can offer .50 BMG caliber takedown sniper rifles. This rifle has set a world record 5”, five shot group at 1000 yards. Through constant refinement the rifle has become unmatched in accuracy and dependability and is in service with specialist units all over the world. A unique feature of this rifle is its interchangeable barrels. Simply by changing the removable barrel, bolt and magazine, the rifle can be modified to .408 Chey-Tac caliber, .338 caliber or .308 caliber.

The name of that assault rifle is Magpul masada now bushmaster ACR
http://dynamicarmament.com/images/magpulmasada/masada1.jpg

 

[harpoon]

I think upgrading the current INSAS rifles and buying some extra AK would a lot more cheaper then actually buying a multi calliber rifle. BTW wasn't IA was planing to buy a new derivative of INSAS and a multi calliber Milap carbine as a weapon for Finsas program.

I have a better idea..just make TAVOR in India under ToT. Its one sexy rifle and it seemsIA can't get enough of it.

 

[piyalghoshal]

Multi caliber doesn't means the soldier has to take with him both kinds of ammunition every-time .........See this matter in other point of view ....the gun can be used in multiple scenarios and we don't have to change guns.for e.g,the soldier can use it in 7.62 version for close quarter anti terrorist fights as well as in battle where 5.56 will be better.So this extra 10 kg thing is a bull ****.

 

[Whazzup]

I have a better idea..just make TAVOR in India under ToT. Its one sexy rifle and it seemsIA can't get enough of it.

Israeli ne hamein INSAS ki gollion ke liye rula diya tha TAR ka tot toh de chuke .

Anyways Bullpup has many advantages length and well balanced centre of mass are some but the front they really loose is complexity and robustness.

 

[harpoon]

Israeli ne hamein INSAS ki gollion ke liye rula diya tha TAR ka tot toh de chuke .

The 'bullet' problem was during the mid 90s when INSAS was rushed into production with no bullets to back it up. Now we make our own bullets and I'm sure that can also make TAVOR in India if we can strike a good deal with Isreal. About 1 million rifles for IA plus additional rifles for paramilitary is too juicy an offer for any rifle company to ignore.

Anyways Bullpup has many advantages length and well balanced centre of mass are some but the front they really loose is complexity and robustness.

If its reliable none of it matters. Also major armies around the world are either using bullpup or planning to move into one.

 

[SEAL]

I am not surprised, i always see such chaos and mess in all Indian defence accusations.

 

[Major.]

I am not surprised, i always see such chaos and mess in all Indian defence accusations.

We at least have money to buy weapons, there are some countries in this world who beg weapons to equip there armed forces....I really feel pity about them...

i dont no much about pakistan....Is Pakistan one among such a state...??? any knowledgeable person should answer...!!!

 

[Bl[i]tZ]

A kind request to the person who started this thread - please format the text, it discourages one from reading even if the topic is very interesting!

 

[SEAL]

We at least have money to buy weapons, there are some countries in this world who beg weapons to equip there armed forces....I really feel pity about them...

i dont no much about pakistan....Is Pakistan one among such a state...??? any knowledgeable person should answer...!!!

When you bring Pakistan in such things it shows that you have lost the argument and now hiding your shameful face by off topic things.

 

[Abhishek_]

When you bring Pakistan in such things it shows that you have lost the argument and now hiding your shameful face by off topic things.

you mean like when PK/CN members resort to India bashing in China related threads?

 

[harpoon]

I am not surprised, i always see such chaos and mess in all Indian defence accusations.

No offence dude, but atleast we are trying to modernize. Your army still use a 50 year old rifle as standard service rifle.

 

[Abingdonboy]

This article makes no sense. No Army is going to make their soldiers carry multi barrels or bullets to battlefield.

I think the main reason for going for this rifle is that multi barrel configuration will allow army to be more flexible with their inventory as one gun will do all the job..whether 7.62 CQB Rifle or 5.56 Battlefield Rifle or in future 6.8 intermediate round rifle.Its no secret that IA soldiers prefer AK 47 in Kashmir, so if a soldier is transfered from Rajasthan to Kashmir, he does not need additional training on AK 47. Just change the barrel of his rifle to 7.62 and he is good to go.

Spot on mate, that's exactly what I got from this article. I think the author is rather ignorant in such matters and has got lost in details. I don't think the intention is for soldiers to be walking about with two different barrels and two different types of ammo as, like the article said, this makes no sense. You can't expect a soldier in a firefight to be messing around assessing the situation and deciding which calibre best suits his needs at that moment in time. Instead I believe this is a quite sensible idea to address the issues IA face in their roles in CT ops and conventional war fighting. Whilst now the IA uses the AK-47 (and it's variants) in J&K firing the 7.62mm, it maintains the 5.56mm INSAS as its standard assault rifle. This means units being deployed to J&K have to be trained on the AK-47 as they have only used the INSAS uptil that point. Hence a multiple-calibre weapon makes sense to be changed according to theatre and operation at base, ahead of time.

IMO the jury is still out on 6.8mm calibre with very few units, other than a few VERY specialised outfits, having adopted it to date.


The US SABR seems to fit the bill, albeit the changes of the foreword receiver change the role of the weapon (assault/sniper/LSW)

 

[angeldemon_007]

I wrote this before also...

^^^
I don't know but i think the multi calibre is misinterpreted in this article. The rifle should be multi calibre that doesnot mean it should be able to fire different caliber at the same mission by the soldier. It means you can buy a single rifle and before the mission you can change the same rifle for different soldier for different use.

Like if we purchase TAR, one soldier can set the rifle for use as a SMG and other one can use it as assault rifle by changing the barrel before the mission. you cannot just switch to different like pressing a switch. This means for one person tar will work as smg and for another an assault rifle, you don't have to purchase Uzi and M16A2 assault rifle separately but you can just purchase a tar and thats the reasoning behind multi-calibre weapon. I don't think tar weighs 10 kg or any such weapon.

FNSCAR with various calibre

But yeah you can carry 2-3 calibre for special operations as you can also change barrel within seconds if you want to but it doesnot mean you have to. I think its one of the wisest decisions ever made. US, Germany, Israel all of them are thinking of building and using multi-caliber weapons. I think its one of smartest thing that IA did. I don't think anyone from military is gonna oppose this but yeah bureaucrats will as they are gonna lose bribe money by this decision as there will be fewer orders as only one rifle can do the job of 2-3 rifles.

Also IA's RFP states 4 calibre not 2. According to IA's RFP, they need 5.56x45mm, 7.62x39mm, 7.62x51mm, 6.8x43mm and 6.5 Grendel rounds. So i doubt the credibility of this article.

 

[Anonymous user]

Strange that the army doesn't just develop its own thru one of the existing arms labs in India, they certainly don't lack the capability and it will help in the long run. IMO they should use 5.56 mm and just buy AK47's for the outlier areas used to the 7.62mm, then majority of the funds can go to R&D.

 

[IndoUS]

Strange that the army doesn't just develop its own thru one of the existing arms labs in India, they certainly don't lack the capability and it will help in the long run. IMO they should use 5.56 mm and just buy AK47's for the outlier areas used to the 7.62mm, then majority of the funds can go to R&D.

To be honest, at this point I would be happy with the Army actual going out and buying the gun rather than making one. The Army soldiers need some major improvement in gear, the Navy and Air Force are doing great in the area of procurement and building things at home rather than buying from out side. Specially the Navy in this regard, but as for the army they have not changed that much if you dis regard the mechanized forces.