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Army’s rifle plan; 10kg burden on soldiers, $250mn on us

praveen007

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Army
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In a controversial move, the Indian Army’s infantry directorate has invited bids to replace its outdated INSAS rifles with those with interchangeable barrels. Opting for such a fancy weapon means that our soldiers will have to carry both barrels and also battle with two kinds of ammunition — an additional load of at least 10kg per soldier. Surprisingly, just one European arms manufacturing firm will be able to meet the army’s requirement. At present, the army seeks to procure 65, 768 such rifles, but the requirement could go up to 20 lakh rifles. DNA accessed the RFP (request for proposal) floated by the army headquarters a while ago for the acquisition of the rifles that will cost the Indian taxpayer about $250 million in the first phase.
The army’s decision to opt for rifles with interchangeable barrels is seen as a regressive move by many in the South Block that houses the ministry of defence. Most rifles come with a single calibre, usually 7.62mm or a 5.56mm.
However, most modern armies have moved to the 5.56mm calibre because it is light and allows a soldier to carry more ammunition. It is also believed that a lower calibre bullet ties down more enemy troops compared to the 7.62mm calibre rifles.
“Someone needs to get his head examined to propose such a thing,” said a senior general who served with the elite special forces. “If it converted a rifle into a light machine gun, I can still understand, even though it is undesirable. But this is a crazy idea.” Further, of the 32 manufacturers who have been sent a RFP, only one European firm fits the bill perfectly, raising questions about the army’s decision.
The RFP stipulates that the rifle must be able to change its calibre from 5.56 x 45mm to 7.62 x 39mm and vice-versa. The barrels, it says, should not be less than 16 inches in length for both the calibres.
The RPF further states that the weight of the weapon with an empty magazine should not exceed 3.6kg for either of the calibres. And in case the “visible aimer” and “holographic/reflex sights” are integrated, the combined weight should not be more than 400gm.
Sources said if the rifles are purchased, it would mean a load of at least 10kg more on every soldier, more maintenance to avoid performance and accuracy slump because of constant barrel and part change, and a lot more money. Subsequent phases will see all central and state police forces switching to the new rifle as a successful bidder will also be asked to transfer the technology to Indian ordinance factories.
The fancy assault rifles are meant to replace the locally designed and less superior 5.56mm INSAS rifles that were developed in 1987 and came into service around 1994-95.
They were mainly used for counter-insurgency operations, but have been found to be inadequate and problematic with frequent jamming and a low rate of fire. Its design is also outdated with most modern armies in China, France and Britain having moved on to the “bull-pup” design.
A pre-bid meeting to clarify doubts of the arms manufacturers will be held on December 30. The technical offer will be opened on February 13,2012...
 
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It's just an RFP. Knowing how their procurement process works, I'm not concerned. Not yet at least.
 
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What benefits lay in equipping the soldiers with multi-barelled rifles?

I think it should be Multi calliber not multi barrel , a multi barrel rifle is something like a gattling gun (correct me if wrong)

Civilian-Gunner-GatlingGun.jpg
 
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Uh, multi barrel does not mean you have to carry extra bullets and makes no sense.

It is most probably multi-caliber as a member has already said.
 
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I think it should be Multi calliber not multi barrel , a multi barrel rifle is something like a gattling gun (correct me if wrong)

Civilian-Gunner-GatlingGun.jpg

Ya you're right. I meant the same, Just didn't know the right word or shall I say, was too lazy to look it up.
 
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This maybe a move to allow some personnel in procurement to siphon off funds, its quite common to order a custom made product that does not have a standard worldwide unit price to be compared against as then put down a inflated cost price.

Personally I think its a crazy idea, having carried 5 full magazine of 5.56 on the field is bad enough with a regular M16. Imagine carrying two sets of ammunition plus an extra barrel would be really bad.

More importantly in the heat of action how will one change the barrel on the fly? The barrels are super hot after being fired which makes touching it near impossible with your bear hands. Maybe a plastic handle will help but touch the wrong part and good luck to the handler.
 
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I think it should be Multi calliber not multi barrel , a multi barrel rifle is something like a gattling gun (correct me if wrong)

A multi caliber rifle would need to have a barrel tailored to that caliber , there are rifles which have barrels that can be interchanged for different caliber but they are typically sniper rifles if I am not wrong. There is a sniper/assault rifle that involves changing the barrels too I forgot what model that was.

I.e
http://internationalsecuritysolutions.com/risk-management/53.html

We are working in a joint venture with EDM Arms, USA we can offer .50 BMG caliber takedown sniper rifles. This rifle has set a world record 5”, five shot group at 1000 yards. Through constant refinement the rifle has become unmatched in accuracy and dependability and is in service with specialist units all over the world. A unique feature of this rifle is its interchangeable barrels. Simply by changing the removable barrel, bolt and magazine, the rifle can be modified to .408 Chey-Tac caliber, .338 caliber or .308 caliber.
 
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This maybe a move to allow some personnel in procurement to siphon off funds, its quite common to order a custom made product that does not have a standard worldwide unit price to be compared against as then put down a inflated cost price.

Personally I think its a crazy idea, having carried 5 full magazine of 5.56 on the field is bad enough with a regular M16. Imagine carrying two sets of ammunition plus an extra barrel would be really bad.

More importantly in the heat of action how will one change the barrel on the fly? The barrels are super hot after being fired which makes touching it near impossible with your bear hands. Maybe a plastic handle will help but touch the wrong part and good luck to the handler.

This article makes no sense. No Army is going to make their soldiers carry multi barrels or bullets to battlefield.

I think the main reason for going for this rifle is that multi barrel configuration will allow army to be more flexible with their inventory as one gun will do all the job..whether 7.62 CQB Rifle or 5.56 Battlefield Rifle or in future 6.8 intermediate round rifle.Its no secret that IA soldiers prefer AK 47 in Kashmir, so if a soldier is transfered from Rajasthan to Kashmir, he does not need additional training on AK 47. Just change the barrel of his rifle to 7.62 and he is good to go.
 
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y no t go with 6.8?

I think 5.56 is better than both 7.62 and 6.8.
If IA someday feels like asking me I would sugggest them to stick with 5.56 as it has less recoil with better penetration though we need to change the bullet we are using . The MK262 new 77 grain bullet would a nice addition better than the previous 62grain one.

The new 77 grain bullet gives more stoping power and better yaw.
 
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Army
++
1678111519.jpg

.
In a controversial move, the Indian Army’s
infantry directorate has invited bids to replace its
outdated INSAS rifles with those with
interchangeable barrels. Opting for such a fancy
weapon means that our soldiers will have to
carry both barrels and also battle with two kinds
of ammunition — an additional load of at least
10kg per soldier.
Surprisingly, just one European arms
manufacturing firm will be able to meet the
army’s requirement. At present, the army seeks
to procure 65, 768 such rifles, but the
requirement could go up to 20 lakh rifles. DNA
accessed the RFP (request for proposal) floated by
the army headquarters a while ago for the
acquisition of the rifles that will cost the Indian
taxpayer about $250 million in the first phase.
The army’s decision to opt for rifles with
interchangeable barrels is seen as a regressive
move by many in the South Block that houses
the ministry of defence. Most rifles come with a
single calibre, usually 7.62mm or a 5.56mm.
However, most modern armies have moved to
the 5.56mm calibre because it is light and allows
a soldier to carry more ammunition. It is also
believed that a lower calibre bullet ties down
more enemy troops compared to the 7.62mm
calibre rifles.
“Someone needs to get his head examined to
propose such a thing,” said a senior general who
served with the elite special forces. “If it converted
a rifle into a light machine gun, I can still
understand, even though it is undesirable. But
this is a crazy idea.”
Further, of the 32 manufacturers who have been
sent a RFP, only one European firm fits the bill
perfectly, raising questions about the army’s
decision.
The RFP stipulates that the rifle must be able to
change its calibre from 5.56 x 45mm to 7.62 x
39mm and vice-versa. The barrels, it says,
should not be less than 16 inches in length for
both the calibres.
The RPF further states that the weight of the
weapon with an empty magazine should not
exceed 3.6kg for either of the calibres. And in case
the “visible aimer” and “holographic/reflex sights”
are integrated, the combined weight should not
be more than 400gm.
Sources said if the rifles are purchased, it would
mean a load of at least 10kg more on every
soldier, more maintenance to avoid performance
and accuracy slump because of constant barrel
and part change, and a lot more money.
Subsequent phases will see all central and state
police forces switching to the new rifle as a
successful bidder will also be asked to transfer the
technology to Indian ordinance factories.
The fancy assault rifles are meant to replace the
locally designed and less superior 5.56mm
INSAS rifles that were developed in 1987 and
came into service around 1994-95. They were
mainly used for counter-insurgency operations,
but have been found to be inadequate and
problematic with frequent jamming and a low
rate of fire. Its design is also outdated with most
modern armies in China, France and Britain
having moved on to the “bull-pup” design.
A pre-bid meeting to clarify doubts of the arms
manufacturers will be held on December 30. The
technical offer will be opened on February 13,
2012.
Would you plz stop posting from mobile ..:angry:
 
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This article makes no sense. No Army is going to make their soldiers carry multi barrels or bullets to battlefield.

I think the main reason for going for this rifle is that multi barrel configuration will allow army to be more flexible with their inventory as one gun will do all the job..whether 7.62 CQB Rifle or 5.56 Battlefield Rifle or in future 6.8 intermediate round rifle.Its no secret that IA soldiers prefer AK 47 in Kashmir, so if a soldier is transfered from Rajasthan to Kashmir, he does not need additional training on AK 47. Just change the barrel of his rifle to 7.62 and he is good to go.

That's a good point mate :tup:
 
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This article makes no sense. No Army is going to make their soldiers carry multi barrels or bullets to battlefield.

I think the main reason for going for this rifle is that multi barrel configuration will allow army to be more flexible with their inventory as one gun will do all the job..whether 7.62 CQB Rifle or 5.56 Battlefield Rifle or in future 6.8 intermediate round rifle.Its no secret that IA soldiers prefer AK 47 in Kashmir, so if a soldier is transfered from Rajasthan to Kashmir, he does not need additional training on AK 47. Just change the barrel of his rifle to 7.62 and he is good to go.

I think upgrading the current INSAS rifles and buying some extra AK would a lot more cheaper then actually buying a multi calliber rifle. BTW wasn't IA was planing to buy a new derivative of INSAS and a multi calliber Milap carbine as a weapon for Finsas program.
 
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Has IA gone mad,multi caliber??even SF units worldwide haven't gone into this idea much.

Regarding 6.8 SPC is officially not going to be used by Green Berets and SEAL teams,may be used by small tier 1 units like Delta and DEVGRU.It's a good round though.
 
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