Army Chief Asim Munir, Imran Khan and ISI Chief should meet together with International Players & Guarantees to put an end to the Crisis.

[Asian.Century]

COAS Syed Asim Munir Ahmed Shah, Imran Khan and ISI Chief Nadeem Anjum should meet together with Guarantees & International Players

• The anger in Armed Forces and people of Pakistan for the 9-May-2023 events where Military Installations were targeted and ruthlessly destroyed. It was really one sad event. The Jinnah House aka Lahore Core Commander House burning hurts every Pakistani till today.
• To be factually correct "not" a single Fauji, Police man or a Ranger has been tortured or even murdered by PTI protestors or any Pakistani public.
• There is a huge doubt built in Armed Forces/Intelligentsia that Imran Khan is completely a loose canon, an opportunist, a selfish and a dangerous man.
• Imran Khan used propaganda by repeatedly using Mir Jaffar and Mir Sadiq to Mr X, Mr Y campaigns to destroy the image of Armed Forces and its senior personnel.
• In-case something happen to Imran Khan, arrested again and murdered - there is a huge possibility of a severe backlash.
• PTI's point of view is how violently & badly Imran Khan was arrested at Islamabad High Court was just not humiliating for any Pakistani whose ex-Prime Minister was dragged badly by Rangers from inside the court. The Law of Jungle prevails but for how long.
• PTI political party has lost 25 workers, 7000 people arrested and violently treated in Police stations.
• Supreme Court and the Lawyers has been divided: the Constitution has been destroyed.
• Freedom of Expression has been suppressed through fear and heavy handed tactics against its own people.
• Without Elections even, PDM (PML-N, PPP and 10 remaining parties) are running the show. PDM has successfully made Pakistan totally weak and created a never ending fighting rift of PTI vs Military Establishment. PDM is jumping with happiness now.
• PDM is adamant to end Imran Khan & its Political Party PTI for good within Pakistan, while Nawaz Shariff/Zardari with all the looted money sitting abroad, destroyed 220 million livelihood is just enjoying the show. No Elections at all and making Armed Forces sub-subservient to Sharif and Zardari's power, the ultimate goal has been achieved.
• Imran Khan & its PTI leadership made many mistakes, economic mishandling, law & order situation, targeting our esteemed Forces, political immaturity by leaving power of Punjab & KPK.
• Pakistan's Economy is almost at the end. It is expected 1-August a default/dawaliaya will incur.
• Pakistan's world image has taken a big hit already calls for a wield martial law imposed in Pakistan.
• As the time moves on - the Human rights organizations are keeping a close eye on Pakistani situation which will be later used by World powers to arm twist Pakistan more & put sanctions.

My Opinion is :

Wake up Pakistanis, think about Turkish Erdogan a civilian . He stopped the Military Coup, arrested many Generals. Yet in careful hindsight of 5 years governance of his party - President Tayyib Erdogan made Turkish Economy the biggest and the Turkish Armed Forces as one of the strongest Military Forces in the region by giving them the maximum money, more weapon production and total political support with the total nation behind it. And yet today, the same Tayyib Erdogan almost nearly lost the democratic election, within a close fight to win again. This is called maturity and intelligent Patriotism and Nationalism.

To be honest - nobody is the winner in this continuous Power Struggle and Ego War inside Pakistan and Punjab especially.

Is there any possibility of break-through between the stakeholders - the high temperatures reaching to a boiling point before a major loss to Pakistan is incurred, please discuss realistic opinions?

 

[blain2]

Our internal dynamic clearly shows that we are a nation incapable of coming to terms with each other regardless of the right or wrong of the matter.

I am ashamed to suggest this but thinking of what could happen, I would be thanking my lucky stars if Saudis or Turks talked some sense into all sides because in this situation, we cannot solve this dangerous stalemate. The former knows the power players inside of Pakistan better than the Turks thus I think Saudis would be a better choice given their leverage within the country. Pakistan becoming dysfunctional is not in the interest of Saudis or any other power.

It would be devastating to see IK/PTI removed by force or hook and crook as a political entity. Maybe the Saudis can force all sides to accept an interim government for 6 months to cool down poisonous rhetoric and get the sides moving towards elections.

While this may even come across as sacrilege to many here, but what if the solution is that none of the contentious names can get in the PM's house after this next round of elections? Meaning people that are unpalatable to PTI i.e. NS, SS, MS, Zardari are all out, they would need to nominate others who are not corrupted with cases and guilt proven against them. Second, IK would sit out PM's office if his party wins elections but maybe someone like Asad Umar would be the PM.

The above could be acceptable to all including the establishment. The establishment will need to pull back and focus on its domain and everyone would need to give the interim and new government space for the economy to be stabilized. Too much to ask? Perhaps but one can always be hopeful.

 

[Jango]

Our internal dynamic clearly shows that we are a nation incapable of coming to terms with each other regardless of the right or wrong of the matter.

I am ashamed to suggest this but thinking of what could happen, I would be thanking my lucky stars if Saudis or Turks talked some sense into all sides because in this situation, the former know the power players inside of Pakistan better than Turks thus I think Saudis would be a better choice given their leverage within the country.

It would be devastating to see IK/PTI removed by force, hook and crook as a political force. Maybe the Saudis can force all sides to accept an interim government for 6 months to cool down poisonous rhetoric and get the sides moving towards elections.

While this may even come across as sacrilege to many here, but what if the solution is that none of the contentious names can get in the PM's house after this next round of elections? Meaning people that are unpalatable to PTI i.e. NS, SS, MS, Zardari are all out, they would need to nominate others who are not corrupted with cases and guilt proven against them. Second, IK would sit out PM's office if his party wins elections but maybe someone like Asad Umar would be the PM.

The above could be acceptable to all including the establishment. The establishment will need to pull back and focus on its domain and everyone allows the economy to be stabilized.

So in short, rather than have elections and let the people decide, again let's play a game behind closed doors, and do deals. The exact same process which got us into this mess.

Abhi sab ko Imran Khan na qabil-e-qabool hai, what is to say tomorrow Asad Umar na qabil-e-qubool ho?

Baat seedhi si hai, whenever the estab sees it's space being encroached, it strikes back.

 

[Asian.Century]

Second, IK would sit out PM's office if his party wins elections but maybe someone like Asad Umar would be the PM.

The above could be acceptable to all including the establishment. The establishment will need to pull back and focus on its domain and everyone would need to give the interim and new government space for the economy to be stabilized. Too much to ask? Perhaps but one can always be hopeful.

Yes if at all Asad Umar should be made the Prime Minister and a ceremonial post to Imran Khan as the President, but knowing Imran Khan he can de-notify the Army Chief like he removed Asim Munir as ISI chief before by asking the then Army Chief Bajwa to remove him. So the Military Establishment with whatever pretext has taken the gloves off, and quickly trying to finish the political power of Imran Khan by one way or other by joining with the PDM crooks and looking at Bilawal as the next PM from PPP.

But given the damage given to Armed Forces, No Elections in sight - Imran Khan and its party will sooner or later become 'Persona Non Grata', things look bleak.

 

[blain2]

So in short, rather than have elections and let the people decide, again let's play a game behind closed doors, and do deals. The exact same process which got us into this mess.

Abhi sab ko Imran Khan na qabil-e-qabool hai, what is to say tomorrow Asad Umar na qabil-e-qubool ho?

Baat seedhi si hai, whenever the estab sees it's space being encroached, it strikes back.

Can you see elections happening with the current setup?

Above is outside of the box thinking. What should happen is not happening clearly. Baat marnay maarnay pe aagai hai...thus the above suggestion. When two sides cannot reconcile, bringing in a third side is not a bad idea, as our Christian friends say "blessed are the peacemakers".

Establishment too realizes the weight of the Saudis...thus the suggestion above. Funny that a democratic country would need to turn to a monarchy to help broker our democracy but such is the situation on hand...

 

[Mirzali Khan]

COAS Syed Asim Munir Ahmed Shah, Imran Khan and ISI Chief Nadeem Anjum should meet together with Guarantees & International Players

• The anger in Armed Forces and people of Pakistan for the 9-May-2023 events where Military Installations were targeted and ruthlessly destroyed. It was really one sad event. The Jinnah House aka Lahore Core Commander House burning hurts every Pakistani till today.
• To be factually correct "not" a single Fauji, Police man or a Ranger has been tortured or even murdered by PTI protestors or any Pakistani public.
• There is a huge doubt built in Armed Forces/Intelligentsia that Imran Khan is completely a loose canon, an opportunist, a selfish and a dangerous man.
• Imran Khan used propaganda by repeatedly using Mir Jaffar and Mir Sadiq to Mr X, Mr Y campaigns to destroy the image of Armed Forces and its senior personnel.
• In-case something happen to Imran Khan, arrested again and murdered - there is a huge possibility of a severe backlash.
• PTI's point of view is how violently & badly Imran Khan was arrested at Islamabad High Court was just not humiliating for any Pakistani whose ex-Prime Minister was dragged badly by Rangers from inside the court. The Law of Jungle prevails but for how long.
• PTI political party has lost 25 workers, 7000 people arrested and violently treated in Police stations.
• Supreme Court and the Lawyers has been divided: the Constitution has been destroyed.
• Freedom of Expression has been suppressed through fear and heavy handed tactics against its own people.
• Without Elections even, PDM (PML-N, PPP and 10 remaining parties) are running the show. PDM has successfully made Pakistan totally weak and created a never ending fighting rift of PTI vs Military Establishment. PDM is jumping with happiness now.
• PDM is adamant to end Imran Khan & its Political Party PTI for good within Pakistan, while Nawaz Shariff/Zardari with all the looted money sitting abroad, destroyed 220 million livelihood is just enjoying the show. No Elections at all and making Armed Forces sub-subservient to Sharif and Zardari's power, the ultimate goal has been achieved.
• Imran Khan & its PTI leadership made many mistakes, economic mishandling, law & order situation, targeting our esteemed Forces, political immaturity by leaving power of Punjab & KPK.
• Pakistan's Economy is almost at the end. It is expected 1-August a default/dawaliaya will incur.
• Pakistan's world image has taken a big hit already calls for a wield martial law imposed in Pakistan.
• As the time moves on - the Human rights organizations are keeping a close eye on Pakistani situation which will be later used by World powers to arm twist Pakistan more & put sanctions.

My Opinion is :

Wake up Pakistanis, think about Turkish Erdogan a civilian . He stopped the Military Coup, arrested many Generals. Yet in careful hindsight of 5 years governance of his party - President Tayyib Erdogan made Turkish Economy the biggest and the Turkish Armed Forces as one of the strongest Military Forces in the region by giving them the maximum money, more weapon production and total political support with the total nation behind it. And yet today, the same Tayyib Erdogan almost nearly lost the democratic election, within a close fight to win again. This is called maturity and intelligent Patriotism and Nationalism.

To be honest - nobody is the winner in this continuous Power Struggle and Ego War inside Pakistan and Punjab especially.

Is there any possibility of break-through between the stakeholders - the high temperatures reaching to a boiling point before a major loss to Pakistan is incurred, please discuss realistic opinions?

If you read the script from Asim Munir's speech I don't think there is any room for negotiation. The ego in Pakistan Army is too high.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1658934852111179781

 

[blain2]

If you read the script from Asim Munir's speech I don't think there is any room for negotiation. The ego in Pakistan Army is too high.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1658934852111179781

Honestly, this does not sound, or look like the address of the CoAS speaking to his officers in a garrison setting.

I heard another recording of a serving officer and he said the CoAS said we won't tolerate further destabilization etc. and then reverted to issues of pay/ration etc. There was no mention of the use of expletives etc.

You have to realize, there is propaganda going on all sides including by some of the PTI cadres. I would be surprised if a sitting CoAS would go into a garrison with hundreds of officers and get down to such a pedestrian talk track.

However, it is not what he says, rather what he does matters more. That is more problematic given what is happening on the ground.

 

[Jango]

Can you see elections happening with the current setup?

Above is outside of the box thinking. What should happen is not happening clearly. Baat marnay maarnay pe aagai hai...thus the above suggestion. When two sides cannot reconcile, bringing in a third side is not a bad idea, as our Christian friends say "blessed are the peacemakers".

Establishment too realizes the weight of the Saudis...thus the suggestion above. Funny that a democratic country would need to turn to a monarchy to help broker our democracy but such is the situation on hand...

Oh I agree that in desperate times such as these any solution is a good solution.

But you know that saying, aik baar kuttay ko khoon lag jaye to phir chootta nhn.

Now before someone says, no, I am not saying establishment is a dog, it's just a phrase.

 

[SaadH]

If you read the script from Asim Munir's speech I don't think there is any room for negotiation. The ego in Pakistan Army is too high.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1658934852111179781

Plus they have all the cards with full backing of their colonial masters/international establishment. They'd be fools to negotiate with IK, knowing fully well that IK is also a pacifist.

The only thing they are currently doing is managing IK's potential to become the biggest martyr in Pakistan's history, Though it won't do any harm to their interests in the long run even if the did, but it's just bad optics.

 

[Hakwa Nadro]

I have a better idea, get a list of businesses owned by these culprits from the funds stolen from Pakistanis,business that are running in Pakistan and abroad and take actions against them. Hit them where it hurts them the most, their pockets.

 

[airmarshal]

May 9th incident started with Imran Khan's kidnapping.

Whats condemnable is the over reach of military into every sphere of politics. The April 10th 2022 ousting of an elected PM by a military chief was a bigger incident than May 9th.

If properly investigated, May 9th was a crime committed by the state. Where there is freedom, its the people who rule, not the military.

If the military wants us to condemn the incident it facilitated, then military should have courage first to suspend and investigate officers involved in murder and attempted murder.

Perhaps what Imran said today best summarizes what I want to say. We need courage like Imran to say things that matter.

Plus they have all the cards with full backing of their colonial masters/international establishment. They'd be fools to negotiate with IK, knowing fully well that IK is also a pacifist.

The only thing they are currently doing is managing IK's potential to become the biggest martyr in Pakistan's history, Though it won't do any harm to their interests in the long run even if the did, but it's just bad optics.

Military rule is over. Its a matter of few days. Military has lost this war as it has lost the respect. Military is acting nervous and is under pressure. Its showing they lack training to deal with an adversary who is honest, committed and sincere to his cause. Its because they themselves are corrupt and have dealt with equally corrupt politicians who brokered deals with establishment.

If God forbid, they kill Imran, the nation wont spare them. There is so much hatred for them. They themselves havent helped as they are obstinately standing with the thieves.

 

[xyx007]

It is clear to us that Munira Mistry delivers what Nawaz Ghanada hired him for today, and his sialkot speech is one of the best examples of him performing his duties in full, but it should be noted that he has earned his nickname DECEIVER, but let's see what else he can deliver through his MI survey team and PMLN Gulloobutts. I think he did a 100 percent job with his boys, instigating the charge crowds in the CC house without a QRF on duty. In order to bring IK on a bargaining chip, 90% of the PTI leadership is in jail. My opinion is that the deceiver himself brought in a narrow lane where he wants to open his arms, but he is unable to do so in front of two hundred million people.

It is already too late for Munira Mistry to win this battle. As far as international and national credibility is concerned, he lacks both. As both China and America have stakes in Pakistan, they do not want to lose their investment in this stupid mistry adventure, that is why 60 congressmen signed a letter that is a big move to shake Bilkon up in the Whitehouse. There is no doubt that CJP is very smart, and he knows very well the Constitution. Let's wait for his judgement on 23 May. PTI is experiencing a lot of loyalty changes at the moment as a result of this.

 

[El Sidd]

Our internal dynamic clearly shows that we are a nation incapable of coming to terms with each other regardless of the right or wrong of the matter.

I am ashamed to suggest this but thinking of what could happen, I would be thanking my lucky stars if Saudis or Turks talked some sense into all sides because in this situation, we cannot solve this dangerous stalemate. The former knows the power players inside of Pakistan better than the Turks thus I think Saudis would be a better choice given their leverage within the country. Pakistan becoming dysfunctional is not in the interest of Saudis or any other power.

It would be devastating to see IK/PTI removed by force or hook and crook as a political entity. Maybe the Saudis can force all sides to accept an interim government for 6 months to cool down poisonous rhetoric and get the sides moving towards elections.

While this may even come across as sacrilege to many here, but what if the solution is that none of the contentious names can get in the PM's house after this next round of elections? Meaning people that are unpalatable to PTI i.e. NS, SS, MS, Zardari are all out, they would need to nominate others who are not corrupted with cases and guilt proven against them. Second, IK would sit out PM's office if his party wins elections but maybe someone like Asad Umar would be the PM.

The above could be acceptable to all including the establishment. The establishment will need to pull back and focus on its domain and everyone would need to give the interim and new government space for the economy to be stabilized. Too much to ask? Perhaps but one can always be hopeful.

Any outside interference on the subject will plunge Pakistan in an unimaginable chaos. Pakistan shall resist foreign interference to her decimal degree.

Mr. Niazi would not leave and would not be forced out of Pakistan. He needs to understand that hard core fanatical elements in his party are anarchist with no interest in the country.

 

[blain2]

Any outside interference on the subject will plunge Pakistan in an unimaginable chaos. Pakistan shall resist foreign interference to her decimal degree.

Mr. Niazi would not leave and would not be forced out of Pakistan. He needs to understand that hard core fanatical elements in his party are anarchist with no interest in the country.

Petty pride needs to be set aside.

We are a country that has had nothing but foreign interference for the last 50+ years. It's just that outsiders did not bother with our domestic politics since it was trash from the start and it did not bother their interests. Now the domestic politics are at a point where nothing is working including ties with outsiders.

Thus, getting KSA to broker peace maybe the only way out. Otherwise there is not one side that is willing to concede one inch to the other. Courts are emasculated, public opinion has been discarded, political parties are baying for each other's blood. In this time, who has the authority or the power to arrive at a situation that is *workable* for all side? KSA will not have the power to push all sides to arrive at an understanding but they can shame all sides into this (they have done it in the past in the case of the NS/Musharraf saga etc.) and secondly, they do have some leverage in the form of oil subsidies and fiscal support to any Pakistani government.

Barring above, can you or anyone suggest anything (please don't give me the "hold elections" line as we know that is not happening unfortunately) even remotely feasible?

I'd rather KSA broker talks than have more blood of our youth, IK, PTI, Police, Rangers etc. etc. being spilled on the streets of Pakistan.

 

[El Sidd]

Petty pride needs to be set aside.

We are a country that has had nothing but foreign interference for the last 50+ years. It's just that outsiders did not bother with our domestic politics since it was trash from the start and it did not bother their interests. Now the domestic politics are at a point where nothing is working including ties with outsiders.

Thus, getting KSA to broker peace maybe the only way out. Otherwise there is not one side that is willing to concede one inch to the other. Courts are emasculated, public opinion has been discarded, political parties are baying for each other's blood. In this time, who has the authority or the power to arrive at a situation that is *workable* for all side? KSA will not have the power to push all sides to arrive at an understanding but they can shame all sides into this (they have done it in the past in the case of the NS/Musharraf saga etc.) and secondly, they do have some leverage in the form of oil subsidies and fiscal support to any Pakistani government.

Barring above, can you or anyone suggest anything (please don't give me the "hold elections" line as we know that is not happening unfortunately) even remotely feasible?

I'd rather KSA broker talks than have more blood of our youth, IK, PTI, Police, Rangers etc. etc. being spilled on the streets of Pakistan.

It would be a surprise if KSA is asked to mediate as the kingdom enjoys an uneasy relationship with PTI.

Turkey is busy.

Afghanistan has but an interim government.

Iran has capacity issues.

Oman is uninterested.

There's very little outsiders can do in this regard. The organic solution to this is not to allow for things to take a personal trajectory.