Armoured Thrusts, Pivotal Support Elements for Better Results

[MastanKhan]

PROLOGUE
Since times the efficient use of the mobile Cavalry had been the hallmark of successful Generals. Whether it was Alexander,Hannibal,Julius Caesar, Hazrat Khalid bin Walid,Napoleon,Wellington,Rommel or Patton etc,all of them had relied on effective mobile cavalry to inflict defeat to their enemy.

The Pakistan army cavalry(armoured corps) has a proud history tracing back to 1773,when its oldest unit was raised in British India. Since its inception it fought in different campaigns worldwide namely in North Africa,Italy,France,Mesopotamia(Iraq),Burma and Saudi Arabia etc.

In the home front pre partition more time was spent in the Western Frontier Regions and Afghanistan. After partition the focus shifted to the Eastern borders with India ,where some great tank battles were fought all but in STALEMATE.

After the huge Indian exercise of BRASSTACKS PA planners decided to fine tune their own offensive capabilities by conducting ZAR E MOMIN and AZM E NAU exercises. Some lessons were learned and new tactics were adopted. Hopefully as claimed the next battles will be fought deep inside the enemy territory.

The two gulf wars taught us the lessons that a modern day cavalry should not only be equipped with good armour but should also be supported with real time battlefield intelligence, air power,communication lines,logistics ,proper reconnaissance ,absolute fire power and superior mobility.
PIVOTAL SUPPORT ELEMENTS
Below are some of the support elements that are critical for any successful armoured thrusts.
a)Full Battle Field Real Time Intelligence and Communication Support
Modern day battlefields are comprised of hundreds of KMs .Wireless sets do provide a good second tier communication back up but for a modern army a central digital command and communication infrastructure is essential at the Brigade level. Aselsan does provide some good C4i communication systems.

b)Close Air Support
Here PAF and Army aviation has a critical role to play. Apart from jet fighters and attack helicopters,drones have also entered the arena. They are not only good tools for aerial reconnaissance but also provide some essential anti armour air support. Recently drones were sighted at some forward air bases.

c)Transport lines and logistical Support
Good roads and railways lines are essential for faster mobility of armour to the border along with the logistics(food,fuel and spares). The railway track from Quetta to Taftan needs to be updated along with a new track from Hyderabad to Islamkot(Thar) needs to be built(for coal and military transportation). The M1 track has always helped our Armour for movements from North to South vis versa.

d) Enhanced Fire Power Support
POF is self sufficient in producing shells of all calibre and unlike our neighbour we dont have to import them in time of need. Our night fighting capability is also far better then the Indian tanks. We completely endorse PAs flexibility in acquiring used equipment from various sources to enhance our fire power. We may see raise of some new PA armoured divisions and Corps in the future!!

CONCLUSION
There are many more factors critical for a successful Blitzkrieg type scenario for our Armour. But the most important of all of them is the faith,devotion and training of the men behind the machines. Judging from the past it is safe to say our boys will give a bloody nose to the enemy deep inside their territory this time.

Hi,

You forgot to mention The Most Important figure---Chengiz Khan---. The ultimate user of cavalry---.

 

[IceCold]

Don’t think Pakistani heavy amour has enough logistics to do a blitzkrieg type attack or even a armoured thrust into India

If they do it will be very little

PA is defensive against such a move

What are the constraints? Money Technology, availability? considering India isnt doing much better either and apart from T-90s they do not possess anything that can hold against Pakistan's Al-Khalid and T-80s on their own. Their own Arjun is nowhere to be seen or deployed anytime soon. Its too heavy anyway specially for Sindh.
A significant threat to Pakistani Armour columns would arise from the recent acquisitions of Apache by Indians. Its a serious threat to which we have no reply and our own process of acquiring T-129 has struck dead end.

 

[PanzerKiel]

What are the constraints? Money Technology, availability? considering India isnt doing much better either and apart from T-90s they do not possess anything that can hold against Pakistan's Al-Khalid and T-80s on their own. Their own Arjun is nowhere to be seen or deployed anytime soon. Its too heavy anyway specially for Sindh.
A significant threat to Pakistani Armour columns would arise from the recent acquisitions of Apache by Indians. Its a serious threat to which we have no reply and our own process of acquiring T-129 has struck dead end.

As far Apache's threat is concerned, this threat has already been countered. Like we say, steel against steel is the least preferred option. AHs arent countered by own AHs, their Arjuns wont be countered by our AKs. They'll be welcomed well, a nice cup of tea is always in the waiting (didnt want to write this tea-line, i usually avoid such feelings to get into my thought process)

 

[Metal 0-1]

What are the constraints? Money Technology, availability? considering India isnt doing much better either and apart from T-90s they do not possess anything that can hold against Pakistan's Al-Khalid and T-80s on their own. Their own Arjun is nowhere to be seen or deployed anytime soon. Its too heavy anyway specially for Sindh.
A significant threat to Pakistani Armour columns would arise from the recent acquisitions of Apache by Indians. Its a serious threat to which we have no reply and our own process of acquiring T-129 has struck dead end.

Apaches are not invincible MANPADS or Surface to Air missiles mounted on IFVs are enough. If we get any of the attack helo ATAK or Z-10ME they can fire Air to Air Missiles.

 

[IceCold]

As far Apache's threat is concerned, this threat has already been countered. Like we say, steel against steel is the least preferred option. AHs arent countered by own AHs, their Arjuns wont be countered by our AKs. They'll be welcomed well, a nice cup of tea is always in the waiting (didnt want to write this tea-line, i usually avoid such feelings to get into my thought process)

I can understand that naturally we are going to respond and let others play by our rules instead of us playing by theirs but having said so the largest tank battle after WW2 did took place in this region between India and Pakistan. Its always nice to see a good solid Armour thrust paving its way through Indian roads.
I am sure Apache threat must be countered however still its considered as one of the leading gunships of the world. This would be a key concern among our policy makers.

On a side note if you dont mind me asking are you from the military as their is professional written under your name. PanzerKiel is it German? Panzer was a famous German tank...yes?

Apaches are not invincible MANPADS or Surface to Air missiles mounted on IFVs are enough. If we get any of the attack helo ATAK or Z-10ME they can fire Air to Air Missiles.

Yes they are not, never implied as such however they are one of the best gunships in the world and possess quite a lot of firepower.

 

[Metal 0-1]

Don’t think Pakistani heavy amour has enough logistics to do a blitzkrieg type attack or even a armoured thrust into India

If they do it will be very little

PA is defensive against such a move

Won't be an Issue because our strike corps are near border area. Lets say 40 Div which is stationed in Okara Cantt. is near to border and Al-Khalid and Al-Zarrars are o standby. A div of Signal corp is also present in Okara which is essential for encrypted comms between our forces and intercepting enemy's comms.

 

[PanzerKiel]

I can understand that naturally we are going to respond and let others play by our rules instead of us playing by theirs but having said so the largest tank battle after WW2 did took place in this region between India and Pakistan. Its always nice to see a good solid Armour thrust paving its way through Indian roads.
I am sure Apache threat must be countered however still its considered as one of the leading gunships of the world. This would be a key concern among our policy makers.

On a side note if you dont mind me asking are you from the military as their is professional written under your name. PanzerKiel is it German? Panzer was a famous German tank...yes?


Yes they are not, never implied as such however they are one of the best gunships in the world and possess quite a lot of firepower.

Bhai, come on, please dont tell me that you believe that Chawinda as the largest tank battle after WW2, as it was reported by an over-enthusiastic press from our side. Initially 25 Cavalry (44 tanks) and then the 6th Armored Div (which was not equal to a full size Armored Division at that time, a full Division having close to 350 tanks) faced Indian 1 Armored Div (1 Armored Brigade and a Lorried Infantry Brigade). On any given day, they did not face each other in their entirety. Instead, everyday it was a battle of several Squadrons from each side.

22 Apache gunships (present strength) or more, arent something which should worry us at policy level. The local Armored Division Commander, it is his domain and army has already taken safeguards to counter this threat. So basically nothing to worry for our policy makers.

Yes, i am from the Armed Forces.

Panzer is a generic word for all tanks, not a specific tank. Panzerkiel is a formation, devised by Germans. The tanks would form into a wedge-shaped formation, with the most heavily armed and armoured vehicles forming the tip. The advantage of the Panzerkeil was that the anti-tank gunners of the opposing enemy would be forced to constantly adjust their ranges due to the depth of the formation. Also, the heavily armoured tanks would bear the brunt of the anti-tank fire, leaving the more vulnerable tanks safe from enemy fire.

 

[Metal 0-1]

Yes they are not, never implied as such however they are one of the best gunships in the world and possess quite a lot of firepower.

Alright two possibilities:
1- Pakistani military officials have planned for taking Apaches and other Nice toys of India heads on. Or
2- They are just to busy...
Take your pick. I am with 1st possibilty

 

[PanzerKiel]

Alright two possibilities:
1- Pakistani military officials have planned for taking Apaches and other Nice toys of India heads on. Or
2- They are just to busy...
Take your pick. I am with 1st possibilty

The correct answer is....an entirely different third possibility.

 

[Cuirassier]

As long as we have shoddy peace-time exercises the true logistics situation would be hard to guess.

The 1 Armoured Division supposedly advanced 180km in Ex Tezgam, but in '65 when it's test came, a whole tank regiment apparently ran out fuel and ammo after it's first foray into the battlefield - 4 Cavalry was virtually written off with most tanks bogged down, it's CO and several officers taken prisoner.

 

[Metal 0-1]

Don’t think Pakistani heavy amour has enough logistics to do a blitzkrieg type attack or even a armoured thrust into India

If they do it will be very little

PA is defensive against such a move

Another aspect:
Pakistan Is defensive, its an advantage. We can easily take out spear head of advancing enemy. Barrage of Rocket Artillery, and SP Howitzers they'll slow down advancing tanks and infantry. Anti-Aircraft guns and surface to air missiles can provide our Attack helos armed with ATGMS as well as shooting down incoming aircrafts for strafing runs. Now Tanks and Infantry based ATGMS can take pott shots.

The correct answer is....an entirely different third possibility.

Please share with us....

 

[aziqbal]

Indian Apache is no threat

how many they have 22 for a 1 million man army ?

Apache made its name during desert storm when stupid Saddam rolled out tanks in open desert without air cover

Pakistan Anza teams will make very short work of Indian Apache’s

I doubt India would even deploy them
During war time

 

[PanzerKiel]

Another aspect:
Pakistan Is defensive, its an advantage. We can easily take out spear head of advancing enemy. Barrage of Rocket Artillery, and SP Howitzers they'll slow down advancing tanks and infantry. Anti-Aircraft guns and surface to air missiles can provide our Attack helos armed with ATGMS as well as shooting down incoming aircrafts for strafing runs. Now Tanks and Infantry based ATGMS can take pott shots.

Theoretically, yes you are right. But the terrain on which we are going to fight our battles actually doesnt allow for this everywhere. There are places where enemy spearheads can come in deep and capture whatever they want while we cant do anything. Then there are places where we have the same advantage. You may like to read or research that once Indians massed their two Strike Corps in front of Rahim Yar Khan during Brass Tacks, what we did with out 1 and 2 Corps. If you find it out, you will be surprised, feel elated and proud.

Please share with us....

Bhai, i hope you understand, such things cant be shared openly. Lets keep the other side guessing.

As long as we have shoddy peace-time exercises the true logistics situation would be hard to guess.

The 1 Armoured Division supposedly advanced 180km in Ex Tezgam, but in '65 when it's test came, a whole tank regiment apparently ran out fuel and ammo after it's first foray into the battlefield - 4 Cavalry was virtually written off with most tanks bogged down, it's CO and several officers taken prisoner.

Critically speaking, handling of the 1 Armored Division was at fault. As Brig Z A Khan said, there was command failure at Div and Bde levels. Units fought with the utmost gallantry and professionalism. You might like to read some indian accounts, which are all praises for the way our COs handled their units.

 

[Cuirassier]

Theoretically, yes you are right. But the terrain on which we are going to fight our battles actually doesnt allow for this everywhere. There are places where enemy spearheads can come in deep and capture whatever they want while we cant do anything. Then there are places where we have the same advantage. You may like to read or research that once Indians massed their two Strike Corps in front of Rahim Yar Khan during Brass Tacks, what we did with out 1 and 2 Corps. If you find it out, you will be surprised, feel elated and proud.


Bhai, i hope you understand, such things cant be shared openly. Lets keep the other side guessing.



Critically speaking, handling of the 1 Armored Division was at fault. As Brig Z A Khan said, there was command failure at Div and Bde levels. Units fought with the utmost gallantry and professionalism. You might like to read some indian accounts, which are all praises for the way our COs handled their units.

Not doubting gallantry at tac level - even 4 Cavalry Commandant got an SJ. But as you said the prep at Bde and Div level was trash, poor staff work too. I guess it was a mixture of own overestimation and opposition's underestimation that led to the failure.

 

[Zulfiqar]

Bhai, come on, please dont tell me that you believe that Chawinda as the largest tank battle after WW2, as it was reported by an over-enthusiastic press from our side. Initially 25 Cavalry (44 tanks) and then the 6th Armored Div (which was not equal to a full size Armored Division at that time, a full Division having close to 350 tanks) faced Indian 1 Armored Div (1 Armored Brigade and a Lorried Infantry Brigade). On any given day, they did not face each other in their entirety. Instead, everyday it was a battle of several Squadrons from each side.

22 Apache gunships (present strength) or more, arent something which should worry us at policy level. The local Armored Division Commander, it is his domain and army has already taken safeguards to counter this threat. So basically nothing to worry for our policy makers.

Yes, i am from the Armed Forces.

Panzer is a generic word for all tanks, not a specific tank. Panzerkiel is a formation, devised by Germans. The tanks would form into a wedge-shaped formation, with the most heavily armed and armoured vehicles forming the tip. The advantage of the Panzerkeil was that the anti-tank gunners of the opposing enemy would be forced to constantly adjust their ranges due to the depth of the formation. Also, the heavily armoured tanks would bear the brunt of the anti-tank fire, leaving the more vulnerable tanks safe from enemy fire.

I remember you supported embedded manpad teams with mech inf back in old pdf IIRC.

The strategy would have changed with time and the striking range of Opfor (no Apaches back then) and likewise your opinion may have modified as well. The same for obvious reasons can't be discussed here.

However, a general question.

What is something that you think we should have, that we lack to boost of our strike formation thrust (apart from gunships).

You may like to read or research that once Indians massed their two Strike Corps in front of Rahim Yar Khan during Brass Tacks, what we did with out 1 and 2 Corps. If you find it out, you will be surprised, feel elated and proud.

Don't know how accurate though (the map that is).