Arjun News & Discussions

[Hellraiser007]

I do not think so

Simple statement is not enough, Back it up with some stats.

Arjun is a heavier breed and can take of hits. the combination of T90 light and agile and Arjun which is heavy and tough is a deadly force.

This tank is evolving, there are as many as 80 upgrades from mark 1 to mark 2. Recently Defense ministry is pushing for mark 3 which is much more advanced.

i do not know much about other systems, just found one weakness Arjun uses rifle gun which has less accuracy than smooth bore gun.

You do not know the difference between Sooth bore gun and Rifled Gun. Do you ??

Rifled Gun is accurate and have maximum penetration power .

Smooth bore gun can fire missile compared to Rifled gun where some customization is needed.

 

[BDforever]

Simple statement is not enough, Back it up with some stats.

Arjun is a heavier breed and can take of hits. the combination of T90 light and agile and Arjun which is heavy and tough is a deadly force.

This tank is evolving, there are as many as 80 upgrades from mark 1 to mark 2. Recently Defense ministry is pushing for mark 3 which is much more advanced.



You do not know the difference between Sooth bore gun and Rifled Gun. Do you ??

Rifled Gun is accurate and have maximum penetration power .

Smooth bore gun can fire missile compared to Rifled gun where some customization is needed.

rifle gun is less accurate than smooth bore gun but has greater penetration power.

 

[Abingdonboy]

i do not know much about other systems, just found one weakness Arjun uses rifle gun which has less accuracy than smooth bore gun.

In fact it is quite the opposite- rifled barrels/guns are far more accurate than their Smooth Bore contemporaries. But I do agree the Arjun's Barrel is one of its weaker points as the life of a Rifled barrel is signifanclty less and they cost a LOT of money.

This tank is evolving, there are as many as 80 upgrades from mark 1 to mark 2. Recently Defense ministry is pushing for mark 3 which is much more advanced.

93 to be precise!

Smooth bore gun can fire missile compared to Rifled gun where some customization is needed.

Arjun's rifle barrel can fire the LAHAT ATGW through its barrel.

 

[Hellraiser007]

rifle gun is less accurate than smooth bore gun but has greater penetration power.

Wrong ...!!!

A rifled barrel, having spiral grooves or polygonal rifling, imparts a gyroscopic spin to the projectile that stabilizes it in flight and prevents it from tumbling. This does two things; first, it increases the accuracy of the projectile by eliminating the random drift due to the Magnus effect, and second, it allows a longer, heavier bullet to be fired from the same caliber barrel, increasing range and power (see external ballistics). In the eighteenth century, the standard infantry arm was the smoothbore musket; by the nineteenth century, rifled barrels became the norm, increasing the power and range of the infantry weapon significantly.

Smoothbore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[BDforever]

In fact it is quite the opposite- rifled barrels/guns are far more accurate than their Smooth Bore contemporaries. But I do agree the Arjun's Barrel is one of its weaker points as, for me, a Smooth Bore barrel is the way to go as Rifled barrels need replacing much more often and they cost a bomb to do so.
93 to be precise!




Arjun's rifle barrel can fire the LAHAT ATGW through its barrel.

well i read opposite thing ..

 

[Abingdonboy]

rifle gun is less accurate than smooth bore gun but has greater penetration power.

You are wrong- Rifled barrels are by far more accurate. Additionally a major issue with Smooth Bores is the fact they cannot fire as many different types of round as the Rifled- Abrams crews were pretty vocal about this IIRC post "Iraqi Freedom" in 2003 where they would have loved to have HE and HESH rounds.

 

[Hellraiser007]

Arjun's rifle barrel can fire the LAHAT ATGW through its barrel.

I know mate , reason why i said some amount of customization is need for missiles to fire from rifled gun.


thank for correcting me on the upgrades.

You are wrong- Rifled barrels are by far more accurate. Additionally a major issue with Smooth Bores is the fact they cannot fire as many different types of round as the Rifled- Abrams crews were pretty vocal about this IIRC post "Iraqi Freedom" in 2003 where they would have loved to have HE and HESH rounds.

And also a rifled 120 mm Arjun gun can out perform 125 mm smooth bore guns, with accuracy and penetration power

 

[Abingdonboy]

well i read opposite thing ..

Must have got mixed up mate! The Arjun's barrel is a good call- all things considered.

 

[BDforever]

Wrong ...!!!




Smoothbore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the 1960s smoothbore tank guns were developed by the Soviet Union and later by the experimental US–FRG MBT-70 project. Based on their experience with the gun/missile system of the BMP-1, the Soviets produced the T-64B main battle tank, with an auto-loaded 2A46 125 mm smoothbore high-velocity tank gun, capable of firing APFSDS ammunition as well as ATGMs. Similar guns continue to be used in the latest Russian T-90, Ukrainian T-84, and Serbian M-84AS MBTs. The German company Rheinmetall developed a more conventional 120 mm smoothbore tank gun which does not fire missiles, adopted for the Leopard 2, and later the U.S. M1 Abrams. The chief advantages of smoothbore designs are their greater suitability for fin stabilised ammunition and their greatly reduced barrel wear compared with rifled designs. Much of the difference in operation between smoothbore and rifled guns shows in the type of secondary ammunition that they fire, with a smoothbore gun being ideal for firing HEAT rounds (although specially designed HEAT rounds can be fired from rifled guns) and rifling being necessary to fire HESH rounds.

Most modern MBTs now mount a smoothbore gun, with the British Challenger 2 and Indian Arjun being notable exceptions.

source: Tank gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
@Abingdonboy

 

[Hellraiser007]

In the 1960s smoothbore tank guns were developed by the Soviet Union and later by the experimental US–FRG MBT-70 project. Based on their experience with the gun/missile system of the BMP-1, the Soviets produced the T-64B main battle tank, with an auto-loaded 2A46 125 mm smoothbore high-velocity tank gun, capable of firing APFSDS ammunition as well as ATGMs. Similar guns continue to be used in the latest Russian T-90, Ukrainian T-84, and Serbian M-84AS MBTs. The German company Rheinmetall developed a more conventional 120 mm smoothbore tank gun which does not fire missiles, adopted for the Leopard 2, and later the U.S. M1 Abrams. The chief advantages of smoothbore designs are their greater suitability for fin stabilised ammunition and their greatly reduced barrel wear compared with rifled designs. Much of the difference in operation between smoothbore and rifled guns shows in the type of secondary ammunition that they fire, with a smoothbore gun being ideal for firing HEAT rounds (although specially designed HEAT rounds can be fired from rifled guns) and rifling being necessary to fire HESH rounds.

Most modern MBTs now mount a smoothbore gun, with the British Challenger 2 and Indian Arjun being notable exceptions.

source: Tank gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
@Abingdonboy

No where it mentions that the gun is accurate, the reason for rifling is accuracy . Smooth bore guns are more suitable for fin stabilized projectiles.

 

[BDforever]

Arjun MBT can out gun Chinese tanks and Pakistani Tanks, Do not underestimate our tank



No where it mentions that the gun is accurate, the reason for rifling is accuracy . Smooth bore guns are more suitable for fin stabilized projectiles.

i do not underestimate, in fact the difference is very little, whoever will fire first shoot he will win

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

India to make Arjun Mk-II tanks by 2014 | StratPost



Dude- did you even read what I wrote?

This article is from feb 2011... here is the latest article:

after supplying 119 Arjun Mark-I tanks – the order initially was for 124 – DRDO is now developing the Arjun Mark-II

http://idrw.org/?p=20835#more-20835

Wrt being more advanced than the M1- the MK.2 could well be on par with the Abrams for sure, if not marginally ahead, the MK.1 doesn't fare too badly against the M1A2 in pure specs:

Its not just the specs but the quality.. even on specs abrams beats arjun mk-II.

Like I said, the FMBT has effectively morphed into the Arjun MK.3.

Even Mk-II is under development and you are talking about MK-III? which is not even on the drawing board...

Since you like quoting Broadsword so much:


Broadsword: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build successive models of the Arjun

Thts great.. about it talks about keeping faith in arjun .. and scraping FMBT? also i know its a "blog" thts why i quoted the price tag not any article..

I was talking about the FMBT/Arjun MK.3 replacing the T-90S and given the proposed timeline of roll-out for the MK.3 in 2020 this fits nicely with the T-90S' end of life (MBT's have around 20 years of "prime" service before they need to be retired or significantly upgraded).

India placed order initial orders for T-90s in 2001.. and even now its inducting them..... your contradicting urself... one time you say tht t-90s and arjuns will replace t-72s by 2020... and the other hand you say tht arjuns will replace t-90s by 2020?which is it?

 

[Abingdonboy]

In the 1960s smoothbore tank guns were developed by the Soviet Union and later by the experimental US–FRG MBT-70 project. Based on their experience with the gun/missile system of the BMP-1, the Soviets produced the T-64B main battle tank, with an auto-loaded 2A46 125 mm smoothbore high-velocity tank gun, capable of firing APFSDS ammunition as well as ATGMs. Similar guns continue to be used in the latest Russian T-90, Ukrainian T-84, and Serbian M-84AS MBTs. The German company Rheinmetall developed a more conventional 120 mm smoothbore tank gun which does not fire missiles, adopted for the Leopard 2, and later the U.S. M1 Abrams. The chief advantages of smoothbore designs are their greater suitability for fin stabilised ammunition and their greatly reduced barrel wear compared with rifled designs. Much of the difference in operation between smoothbore and rifled guns shows in the type of secondary ammunition that they fire, with a smoothbore gun being ideal for firing HEAT rounds (although specially designed HEAT rounds can be fired from rifled guns) and rifling being necessary to fire HESH rounds.

Most modern MBTs now mount a smoothbore gun, with the British Challenger 2 and Indian Arjun being notable exceptions.

source: Tank gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
@Abingdonboy

None of this quote says anything about Smooth Bore barrels being more accurate or more powerful than a Rifled- or did I miss something?


The 2 advantage outlined in the quote are 1) the "greater suitability to fire" APFSDS rounds and 2) less wear (as I have mentioned).


This bit:

Much of the difference in operation between smoothbore and rifled guns shows in the type of secondary ammunition that they fire, with a smoothbore gun being ideal for firing HEAT rounds (although specially designed HEAT rounds can be fired from rifled guns) and rifling being necessary to fire HESH rounds.

Is quite key- so the rifled can do all the things a Smooth Bore can do (with modifications) but it is not the case for teh Smooth Bore being able to do all the rifled can do.



Btw @BDforever you have touched upon a pretty hotly-debated topic and there are always going to be 2 views and ways of looking at it so if you think you can get a conclusive answer here, today, you are wrong.

 

[Hellraiser007]

i do not underestimate, in fact the difference is very little, whoever will fire first shoot he will win

No ... our boy can take hits and stand firm.

 

[BDforever]

ok guys i think the success of smooth bore or rifle gun depends on fire control system i guess.