Arjun - new videos

[blain2]

One way to look at this is to think about the feasibility of the Arjun in the sub-continental (or for that matter Indian) context. IA thinks that T-90 is fully capable of handling the Pakistani armour threat...why is there a need for a heavier, more complex tank then?

Additionally anything above 55 tons requires infrastructure to be able to support it. This was one of the key things (in addition to the cost) that Pakistani evaluations of US and other western armour resulted in the Army going for lighter tanks.

The problem with having so much armour and weight on a tank is that you will have problems moving it about the country. If the Indian infrastructure supports it then its all fine (however this was one of the problems identified by the IA itself and I am not aware that the Indian railways or road networks have undergone any sort of major transformation in the past decade to address this problem) ...also having a pretty decent idea about what the infrastructure is like in the two countries of the South Asia, transportation etc. will continue to be a challenge.

With the T-90 program still running full steam ahead in India, I am not sure what that means for Arjun.

 

[Flintlock]

The upgraded T-90s can match up the the Al-Khalids on most counts, of course, the Al-Khalid is marginally better being a new product. So with T-90s, the only advantage IA has got is superior numbers (ignoring air-support of course).
It makes much more sense to do some hard work, and try out something that will give a decisive edge to the indian armour. After all, the future of warfare lies that way. It will be very short-sighted to stick to the time-tested techniques while the rest of the world moves on.


You have a point there about the road infrastructure....in case of all-out war, tanks will need to be delivered fast and efficiently. Indian roads are improving actually. Modern Highways are being built quickly, and I'm sure by the time these tanks are fully inducted, the major roads in India will be upto international standards.
After all the tanks just need to be transported near the rear border posts by truck/rail. After that, the work of roads is over.
So if the major national highways are upgraded, it should be sufficient.

Let us wait and watch. the T-90 acquision seems to me like a stop-gap purchase, to prevent them from losing strength incase the arjun project stalls for whatever reason.




Indian army's logistics will have to undergo a major overhall.

 

[con]

Additionally anything above 55 tons requires infrastructure to be able to support it. This was one of the key things (in addition to the cost) that Pakistani evaluations of US and other western armour resulted in the Army going for lighter tanks.

The difference b/w the scenario you have mentioned and with that of IA is Arjun is produced in-house. IA knew that Arjun is one day gonna be inducted within it's ranks. One day or the other they have to upgrade the infrastructure to handle Arjun.
As far the cost is concerned,since the tank is produced in house by a government run agency,technically India is paying only for the components which are imported, primarily engine,transmission and thermals.

In the case of Pakistan, the whole tank has to be imported. PA would have to pay every component of the tank,which not to mention will be expensive compare with the budget it has.

By the way what Arjun is today(120 mm,heavy armour etc) is all due to PA evaluating M1A1 during late 90's. It was initially never meant to be in this form.

The problem with having so much armour and weight on a tank is that you will have problems moving it about the country. If the Indian infrastructure supports it then its all fine (however this was one of the problems identified by the IA itself and I am not aware that the Indian railways or road networks have undergone any sort of major transformation in the past decade to address this problem) ...also having a pretty decent idea about what the infrastructure is like in the two countries of the South Asia, transportation etc. will continue to be a challenge.

With the T-90 program still running full steam ahead in India, I am not sure what that means for Arjun.

I dont think moving around the country is a problem. The tank is produced in Madras and IA carries out the test in Rajasthan. It has been transported through the rail system from Southern India to Northern India and there has been no complains.

The bridge and train was just one silly excuse picked up by the media.All the bridges within Indian border areas are Class 70 tonne.Places where there is no bridges,it already has Class 70 tone bridge layers.

And for how long can IA expect Russia to produce tanks under 50 tonne,because the country's infrastructure cannot support more?
By the way Arjun has less ground pressure than T-90.So 60 tonne is never a problem.

As I said, IA had to one day induct the tank.Hence they had to build the infrastructure one way or the other. One of the reason there is only initial batch of 125 to complete the infrastructure & training.

T-90 production is very much required to keep up the numbers. Imagine the number of years that is needed to replace around 1500 T-72s with Arjuns at 50/year.

 

[con]

One way to look at this is to think about the feasibility of the Arjun in the sub-continental (or for that matter Indian) context. IA thinks that T-90 is fully capable of handling the Pakistani armour threat...why is there a need for a heavier, more complex tank then?

Can any one gurantee that India will only have to face Pakistani armour in the future?Well for once the Indian defence establishment is coming out of Pakistan specific mindset.
Gulf war has shown you dont fight a war on equal terms. Though not yet completely,but IA is learning this lesson.

 

[Flintlock]

By the way Arjun has less ground pressure than T-90.So 60 tonne is never a problem.

Yes, ground pressure is quite low in Arjun. It is because of the large surface area of the tank, as it is one of the widest and longest tanks around. However, it sits quite low, so detection shouldn't be a problem.

BTW, I'm sure most modern radars can pick up even small tanks with ease, so I doubt if even its surface area is of concern ,since it is getting detected anyway, no matter how small it is!!

Also these tanks are not intended for urban warfare, so again there is no advantage in having a smaller narrower tank. If you have the infrastructure to support it, the weight of the tank should be of very little concern.

 

[Keysersoze]

Please do inform us civilians. Our untrained eyes can only see a tank running around with a reporter inside it.

Take a look at the Glacis plate.......

apparently it's the same fault that the design the arjun is based upon has

 

[con]

Take a look at the Glacis plate.......

apparently it's the same fault that the design the arjun is based upon has

Are you talking about the larger surface area provided,making it a potential target area?

I know of one fault of having sights on the frontal turret armor.

 

[Muradk]

This tank has several new innovations like the Kanchan ceramic armour and NERA. Also the primary gun is rifled, which further improves its accuracy and range. Also the hydro-pneumatic suspension makes the ride as smooth as a mercedes and also improves its stabiliy and hence accuracy.

Nice video though.. I wish I was lucky enought to be given a couple of hours with that beast!!

I hope the army realizes that this is a great opportunity to modernize the battle plans and induct western battle concepts, and move away from russian ones.

I just wounder wounder hoe could you says , we have'nt seen the tank in Action, moving through mud does;nt mean this is it, But I do agree with you russians did'nt help a helpmuch in making this, afer seeing the Fire control and the electronics its israeli.?

 

[con]

I just wounder wounder hoe could you says , we have'nt seen the tank in Action, moving through mud does;nt mean this is it, But I do agree with you russians did'nt help a helpmuch in making this, afer seeing the Fire control and the electronics its israeli.?

Sir,
The initial batch(i think around 50 tanks) would have French FCS and would be gradually replaced with Indian designed system.

The tank was designed in consultation with Germany. Hence it looks like Leo 2

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Leo2_Pics/Leo2A4_scan01.jpg

 

[Munir]

Been in a leopard 2. This tank does not come close to that one.

 

[EagleEyes]

This is Leo 2.

And this is Arjun.

 

[Keysersoze]

Webby that is a A6 leopard take a look at the A4

 

[Flintlock]

Been in a leopard 2. This tank does not come close to that one.

Does not come close in terms of what? Specs?

 

[Flintlock]

I just wounder wounder hoe could you says , we have'nt seen the tank in Action, moving through mud does;nt mean this is it, But I do agree with you russians did'nt help a helpmuch in making this, afer seeing the Fire control and the electronics its israeli.?

The boxy turret is due to the Kanchan ceramic armour plates used,which need to be vertical!! The newer production models have been fitted with NERA also developed in-house.
Also,, it can network with other tanks in the area, which will increase it effectiveness manifold.

Of course specifications do not tell the full story. The only way to conclusive way to test this tank is in the battlefield!!

However from the results of the exercises by the army, the technologies used in this tank, it appears to be a very advanced one!! According to a report, the tank survived a direct hit from a T-90 at point-blank range!!

 

[Flintlock]

Arjun

Leopard 2A4

Challenger