Arjun - new videos

[Flintlock]

Specs from Autocar Magazine!!

 

[EagleEyes]

Webby that is a A6 leopard take a look at the A4

It does resembles pretty much the same look. Going down the Chinese path? Good for them.

 

[Flintlock]

The Kanchan Armor

Kanchan armor is a composite armor also called sandwich armor. During the initial days, India had approached the British to co-develop a composite armor. British armor research was based in British tank research centre on Chobham Common, the reason the generic name Chobham armor for all such type of composite armor. The British were not favorable to the Indian proposal.

Development of a composite armor was earnestly taken up at Armour Design & Development Division at the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL), Kanchan Bagh, Hyderabad. Like the British name Chobham, Kanchan Armor got its name from Kanchan Bagh.

Kanchan Armor uses the same principle as the Chobham armor, but the composition is different. It has Rolled Homogenous Armor (RHA) and composites. RHA is a type of steel sheet used as protection for the armored vehicles since World War II. Kanchan Armor has a composite panel sandwiched between RHA. The number of layers is decided based on the user requirement.

When a projectile is fired, the armor stops it via compression and de-compression method. As the projectile hits the armor, it faces compression because of the RHA, and then it faces decompression because of the composite. When the projectile passes through several such sandwiched layers, it breaks up the APFDS or HEAT shot. A HESH shot is ineffective against a spaced armor. It definitely will not go through a layered armor.

In 1980’s the Kanchan composite had a composition of ceramic, alumina, fiber glass and some other such materials mixed. The RHA tried out had two thicknesses, i.e. a 350 mm plate and a 315 m plate. However these two plates had the same weight as a 120mm RHA. Hence it is said that Kanchan armor is more volume at same weight. The anti-tank munitions have problems in penetrating denser mass.

This is the time when the Russian Tank T-72 imported by Indian Army could not penetrate the Kanchan Armor protected Arjun Tank , with APFDS at point blank range. Subsequently, the debate took place if the Russians had supplied us with training rounds rather than the actual ammunition. As a side note, in January 2000 at Proof & Experimental Establishment (PXE), Balasore, Arjun tank armor defeated all available HESH and FSAPDS rounds including Israeli FSAPDS rounds.

Back to 1980’s, after the T-72 incident, a 106 mm RCL gun was tried on the Arjun Tank. 106 RCL’s were effective anti-tank weapons those days. It played havoc on enemy tanks in 1971 war. The Kanchan armor defeated that too.

Kanchan armor composition has undergone massive changes since 1980’s. The volume of the RHA has been reduced to lesser mass because of better metallurgy. The composite has evolved too and it does not use the 1980’s technology anymore.

P.S. The design may resemble the Leopard superficially, but the Arjun is by no means a copy or ripoff of the Leopard.

 

[Keysersoze]

P.S. The design may resemble the Leopard superficially, but the Arjun is by no means a copy or ripoff of the Leopard.

Sorry but that is exactly what it is..........It even has the design faults of the early Leo models.

The German company that designed the Leopard 2 was a consultant on the design a while back. And funnily enough the tank looks like a LEO.

You are right though about one thing....the Leo is regarded as being an excellent tank and over 2000+ are in service around the world. The Arjun can't get past the first 15 it seems.

 

[EagleEyes]

P.S. The design may resemble the Leopard superficially, but the Arjun is by no means a copy or ripoff of the Leopard.

Sorry if it hurt your feelings.

But i take it as a good thing. You got the tank that looks like Leo 2 A4.

Regards.

 

[Flintlock]

Sorry but that is exactly what it is..........It even has the design faults of the early Leo models.

The German company that designed the Leopard 2 was a consultant on the design a while back. And funnily enough the tank looks like a LEO.

You are right though about one thing....the Leo is regarded as being an excellent tank and over 2000+ are in service around the world. The Arjun can't get past the first 15 it seems.

Well I'll have to disagree there Keys, the similarity between the Leo-2 and Arjun ends at the superficial. Leo-2A4 is a second generation tank that is now obsolete, and cannot be compared to the Arjun!!
The Arjun is a thoroughly modern 3rd gen tank with newer tech and electronics, and better weapon systems than the Leo-2A4!!

Can't get past 15? The army has already ordered 120+ tanks man...you need to upgrade your info!!

 

[Keysersoze]

Well I'll have to disagree there Keys, the similarity between the Leo-2 and Arjun ends at the superficial. Leo-2A4 is a second generation tank that is now obsolete, and cannot be compared to the Arjun!!
The Arjun is a thoroughly modern 3rd gen tank with newer tech and electronics, and better weapon systems than the Leo-2A4!!

Can't get past 15? The army has already ordered 120+ tanks man...you need to upgrade your info!!

Yeah funny but I recently went through a few websites and have found this "124 order" and "124 induction" etc etc going back too 2000. wonder if we are actually going to see them in use? Now unless the are using Kryptonite they should have completed the order why haven't they? Heres a little clue here....

In a written reply to Parliament on 07 March 2001, Defence Minister George Fernandes said the first batch of Arjun Mk.1 MBTs are to be delivered to the Army during 2003/04. This first batch, consisting of 125 tanks to be produced at the Heavy Vehicles Factory at Avadi, will equip two to three armoured regiments. Anyone seen them yet? It's 2007 so they must have completed the order right?

Sorry but given a choice between the Leo 2A4 and the Arjun I would take the LEO hands down. The Leo works.........

Oh and the involvement of Krauss maffei (the company that designed the Leo2)in the design consultation kinda contradicts your idea that the design is not a copy.......hers something from a Indian website ......

The design is similar that of the Leopard 2A4 Tank, because of the design consultancy by Krauss Maffei and the involvement of several German firms. This has led some to dub the Arjun as Leopard I, with the I standing for India

Arjun MBT, tanks, Weapon Systems | India Defence

 

[Flintlock]

Yeah funny but I recently went through a few websites and have found this "124 order" and "124 induction" etc etc going back too 2000. wonder if we are actually going to see them in use? Now unless the are using Kryptonite they should have completed the order why haven't they? Heres a little clue here


In a written reply to Parliament on 07 March 2001, Defence Minister George Fernandes said the first batch of Arjun Mk.1 MBTs are to be delivered to the Army during 2003/04. This first batch, consisting of 125 tanks to be produced at the Heavy Vehicles Factory at Avadi, will equip two to three armoured regiments. Anyone seen them yet? It's 2007 so they must have completed the order right?

Well as of now, the 124 tanks are being manufactured as we speak.... the design and testing stage is over and they are being inducted. In 2004 the tank still had some flaws, so obviously they weren't given the go-ahead then!

Sorry but given a choice between the Leo 2A4 and the Arjun I would take the LEO hands down. The Leo works.........

Well you are entitled to your opinion....and your Pakistan bias...but...

The Arjun works better!! It has been tested extensively and come out on top, and the specs tell the rest of the story!!

Oh and the involvement of Krauss maffei (the company that designed the Leo2)in the design consultation kinda contradicts your idea that the design is not a copy.......hers something from a Indian website ......

The Arjun team took help from several countries: They used their own expertise from manufacturing earlier tanks and Russian ones, they took help in electronics from Israel, and they consulted German experts for some of the design problems. You can't expect anyone to reinvent the wheel.....you learn the established practices from abroad and then add your own innovations and improvements!!


Copying is something that is done the Chinese way....get hold of a tank and reverse engineer it. the Arjun is hardly a copy of the Leopard, it combines expertise from a lot of different sources, as well as a lot of indegenous technologies and improvements.

The design is similar that of the Leopard 2A4 Tank, because of the design consultancy by Krauss Maffei and the involvement of several German firms. This has led some to dub the Arjun as Leopard I, with the I standing for India

Mere speculation, "some" obviously refers to defence "experts" who are legendary for their cynicism. Consultants from several countries were involved in the project.
When you build an airplane, you don't start off by building the Wright Brothers' glider and them move upwards. You consult the experts, gain the knowledge and move on from there.
Same with tanks.


P.S....what is the design flaw you were mentioning?

 

[Flintlock]

As far as similarity with Leo-2 is concerned, the only similarity I can see is the turret, which is boxy. This is, as I pointed out earlier, due to the use of the indegenously developed Kanchan armour which needs vertical tiles, and not due to simply copying the design of Leopard 2]

The arjun sits significantly lower than Leopard at 2.32mts compared to 3mts.
It is also significantly longer (10mts versus 7.7mts) longer than the Leopard and wider.

Don't label it a copy just because the turrets look similar in shape!!

 

[Keysersoze]

As far as similarity with Leo-2 is concerned, the only similarity I can see is the turret, which is boxy. This is, as I pointed out earlier, due to the use of the indegenously developed Kanchan armour which needs vertical tiles, and not due to simply copying the design of Leopard 2]

The arjun sits significantly lower than Leopard at 2.32mts compared to 3mts.
It is also significantly longer (10mts versus 7.7mts) longer than the Leopard and wider.

Don't label it a copy just because the turrets look similar in shape!!

Dude the same damn company helped design both tanks! It has virtually the same ground pressure. A German engine and transmission.

The design flaw is the optics built into the turret which provides a weak spot in the glacis plate. (A fault later corrected on the later leo models)
And looking at the video the bogies look like a easy mobility kill.

 

[con]

And looking at the video the bogies look like a easy mobility kill.

Is this assumption based on a reporter driving the tank around?

 

[Keysersoze]

Is this assumption based on a reporter driving the tank around?

naah on the movement of the tank, and what I would aim at instinctively.