ARJ21 conducts cold weather testing

[Time]

Contrary to the implication by the poster "Time," the problem is not technology. China's indigenous manufacture of the J-10 and J-20 shows that it possesses all of the necessary technologies to build a less-technologically-challenging civilian airplane. It is necessary for China to partner with foreign suppliers to induce confidence among the foreign buyers and passengers.

Also, bringing in foreign suppliers lowers the political resistance/protectionism when China tries to export the ARJ21-700 into those countries.

Ok, it's not a problem of technology. Is it a problem of industry developing level to mass producing this kind of low-tech engines or other important parts? Commercially we are alright now, what if relations get bad? If this country is a part of the allied, I'm not worried.

 

[Martian2]

This is my last post on this subject, because I think member "Time" is barking up the wrong tree. The political pressure on China to permit more western companies to participate in its economy is intense. The large annual trade surplus is a hot political potato. China couldn't keep the western companies out, even if it wanted to. If China tried, there would be a trade war.

GE CEO Jeffrey Immelt on China: They Won't Let Us Win - China Real Time Report - WSJ
"Jeffrey Immelt, the CEO of General Electric, has become the latest high-profile U.S. business leader to sound off about China.

It’s getting harder for foreign companies to do business there, he told Italian business leaders. “I really worry about China,” the FT quotes him as saying. 'I am not sure that in the end they want any of us to win, or any of us to be successful.'”

Purspective: China to open up access to government contracts
"Sep 8, 2010 ... China to open up access to government contracts ... the Chinese government will adopt an open, transparent plan to let foreign companies and ..."

 

[alpha proton]

It is proper to call the ARJ21-700 indigenous, because China is the lead project manager. The suppliers have competed ferociously to become a partner (e.g. see GE and Honeywell interviews) in China's ARJ21-700. If the suppliers do not want to join, they are free to leave and China will replace them or use its own technology, if necessary.

The bottom line is that all of the subcontractors are replaceable and China possesses indigenous technology to fill the gap, if it so desired.

Which r the potential countries at whick u look to export this plane,do u frankly beleive that those western countries from were spares r purchased will buy this planes

Selling jet liners is not like selling a car,that requires huge political maneuvering,so u need a lot of friends in the west,at the same time ur product require to b better than what is offered by the aero giants Boeing and Airbus

 

[graphican]

An image with the post is always helpful. For more images visit here.

 

[Martian2]

Which r the potential countries at whick u look to export this plane,do u frankly beleive that those western countries from were spares r purchased will buy this planes

Selling jet liners is not like selling a car,that requires huge political maneuvering,so u need a lot of friends in the west,at the same time ur product require to b better than what is offered by the aero giants Boeing and Airbus

Comac ARJ21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"GE Commercial Aviation Services Announces Purchase of Five ARJ21-700ER Regional Jet Aircraft from Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China, LTD (COMAC); ..."

From General Electric's own press release:

http://www.genewscenter.com/content/detail.aspx?releaseid=4385&newsareaid=2
"Nov 4, 2008 ... The ARJ21 is a 70-90 seat regional jet that combines Chinese intellectual property with advanced engines, produced by GE Aviation, ..."

 

[Martian2]

China's Advanced Regional Jet for the 21st Century

ARJ21 jets to be delivered starting from 2011 - People's Daily Online

"ARJ21 jets to be delivered starting from 2011
13:38, July 22, 2010

China's first ARJ21 regional jet is expected to be delivered in 2011, the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC), which develops domestically-made jumbo jets and sells the ARJ21 aircraft, reported during the Farnborough International Air Show on July 21.

ARJ21 is a new type of short-to-medium-range, turbofan-powered regional jet independently developed by China. It has 70 to 100 seats and a maximum range of 2,000 nautical miles. Designed in accordance with international airworthiness standards, the aircraft can meet requirements such as takeoff and landing in plateau or high-temperature airports.

According to COMAC, the ARJ21 regional jet had its first test flight on Nov. 28, 2008 and has entered the airworthiness certification and certificate application stage. Four ARJ21 regional jets have participated in test flights with a cumulative flight time of more than 600 hours. Confirmed overseas and domestic orders and orders of intent have amounted to 240 and the first aircraft is scheduled to be delivered in 2011.

The pre-sale price of the new ARJ21 regional jet is 27 million to 29 million U.S. dollars, giving the ARJ21 regional jet a price advantage over its peers in the international market.

COMAC also noted that China's jumbo jet project will enter the engineering development phase next year. The suppliers for the project have generally been selected after key suppliers of the airframe structure, power units and system devices, materials and standard components were fixed.

Equipment for the C919 jumbo jets will be supplied by 13 international aviation manufacturing enterprises. Meanwhile, over 30 domestic enterprises have passed the preliminary material supply reviews and more than 50 domestic enterprises have been selected as potential standard component suppliers.

COMAC added that the overall technical plan, manufacturing plan and customer service plan for the C919 jumbo jets will be compiled in 2010. The C919 jumbo jets are scheduled to conduct the first test flights in 2014 and be delivered in 2016.

By People's Daily Online"

ARJ-21 cockpit

ARJ-21 pilot controls

ARJ-21 throttle control

ARJ-21 interior cabin space

 

[alpha proton]

Comac ARJ21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"GE Commercial Aviation Services Announces Purchase of Five ARJ21-700ER Regional Jet Aircraft from Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China, LTD (COMAC); ..."

Just a single order,and that to 5 planes,watch the list against dont u think u have still not collected big orders from the west

Well on the other I consider this as a good start,I am not bothered about west,I will like to see very soon a ARJ21 under the logo of Air India and Kingfisher Airlines

Best of luck

 

[Martian2]

Question answered by me on another forum regarding China's ARJ21-700 :

Anyone have any idea what are the comparable jet prices around the world?

This quote comes from post #20 (see above):

The pre-sale price of the new ARJ21 regional jet is 27 million to 29 million U.S. dollars, giving the ARJ21 regional jet a price advantage over its peers in the international market.

China's ARJ21 has 70 (e.g. business class) to 100 (e.g. economy class) seats. Cost is $27 to $29 million dollars.

Brazil's Embraer 100-seat regional jet costs $40 million dollars.

Canada's Bombardier regional business jet costs $46 million dollars. (calculation: $277 million / 6 business jets = $46 million per business jet)

Embraer Trumps Bombardier With $1.9 Billion of Jet Orders at U.K. Airshow - Bloomberg

Embraer yesterday announced orders in Farnborough for five 120-seat 195 jets worth $211 million from Azul Linhas Aereas Brasileiras, and one valued at $80 million for two 100-seat 190s from Trip Linhas Aereas. Both carriers operate in Brazil, where Sao Jose Dos Campos-based Embraer is based.

Bombardier, Embraer’s biggest rival in the regional jet market and the No. 3 planemaker after Airbus SAS and Boeing Co., today won six business jet orders worth $277 million from Swiss air-charter company VistaJet Holding SA.

 

[Mani2020]

Which r the potential countries at whick u look to export this plane,do u frankly beleive that those western countries from were spares r purchased will buy this planes

Selling jet liners is not like selling a car,that requires huge political maneuvering,so u need a lot of friends in the west,at the same time ur product require to b better than what is offered by the aero giants Boeing and Airbus

Firstly this jet is not in line or is competing with any of Boeing or Airbus rather its in class of Bombardier ,Embraer etc Apart from airliner it can be used for airforces around the world for VIP transportation specially for the Air-forces who are already customers of Chinese military products also it can be used as an AWAC platform like Embraer ,Bombardier etc and for many other roles like them

A jet with a price tag of just 20million is not a bad deal for any country especially the third world countries

Apart from this 5 airlines of China , 1 airline from Indonesia and 1 from US have already ordered them.There are currently 237 aircrafts on order

 

[Martian2]

Firstly this jet is not in line or is competing with any of Boeing or Airbus rather its in class of Bombardier ,Embraer etc Apart from airliner it can be used for airforces around the world for VIP transportation specially for the Air-forces who are already customers of Chinese military products also it can be used as an AWAC platform like Embraer ,Bombardier etc and for many other roles like them

A jet with a price tag of just 20million is not a bad deal for any country especially the third world countries

Apart from this 5 airlines of China , 1 airline from Indonesia and 1 from US have already ordered them.There are currently 237 aircrafts on order

Laos also ordered two ARJ-21s.

Lao Airlines Purchases 2 Comac ARJ21 — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net
"Lao Airlines has signed an agreement with the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (Comac) to purchase two ARJ21-700s, making the airline the first export customer for the narrowbody jet."

 

[razgriz19]

What about its engines, avionics? Some chapters of its manual are exactly the same as its foreign supplier's own plane's. They already admitted that this is basically a product of financing of foreign companies and domestic ones.

dude dont even bother talking about engines, cause NO comercial jet company (boeing, airbus etc) makes their own engine!
GE, rolls royce and other compnies makes engines...

 

[alpha proton]

Firstly this jet is not in line or is competing with any of Boeing or Airbus rather its in class of Bombardier ,Embraer etc Apart from airliner it can be used for airforces around the world for VIP transportation specially for the Air-forces who are already customers of Chinese military products also it can be used as an AWAC platform like Embraer ,Bombardier etc and for many other roles like them

A jet with a price tag of just 20million is not a bad deal for any country especially the third world countries

Apart from this 5 airlines of China , 1 airline from Indonesia and 1 from US have already ordered them.There are currently 237 aircrafts on order

I just used Boeing and Airbus as a matter of example,was not indicating about a turf war,offcourse 99 % business this plane will generate will b from 3rd world countries.

I specifically refereed to the western market in my reply which was in a response to Martian's reply(and that was about western market)heavily influenced by western aerospace companies.

 

[BATMAN]

^^ Developed states already have their fleets and will never buy Chinese aircraft because this will kill their home industry.

The airline business is not limited to states but lot of private companies are in business too.

Down playing a successful Chinese or Pakistani development... by an Indian is not a surprise.

 

[lcloo]

ARJ-21 is a commercial jet, the bottomline i.e. net profit is the main consideration, political view can have a back seat.

First a commercial jet having parts totally make by a single country is a bad move, bad for marketing because if other country is involved in making a component, no matter how large or small, it will increase the desire for that country's airliner to buy the aircraft.

Cost of components also depends on efficieny of manufacuring and economy of scale, a good and cheap component cut your cost and your aircraft is price competitive. Thus participation of western avionic and engine makers actually may cut ARJ-21's cost as they have to compete to gain contract to supply.

Western nations are not familiar with Chinese commercial jet, in fact ARJ-21 is the first successful Chinese commercial jet, they need confidence by judging the post launch operations. GE has confidence because they are involved in ARJ-21 project, thus they have put the order. Hua Wei has proved that China can sell top sophisticated product to the world, ARJ-21 might follow after some years in operation.

Lastly, having more than 300 orders before launching is already a very good achievement. This already beaten the like of Focker 28 and BAC 111.

 

[jha]

Good going China..Hope to travel in this plane sometime..Developing states need cost effective planes..Monopoly of Boeing and Airbus has to be challenged. Embraer, Sukhoi and this Chinese corporation are doing good..