Are Russian T-90 Tanks Outsmarting US-Made TOWs?

[Davos]

BGM-71G TOW
a.k.a. BGM-71E-4B-RF, BGM-71F-3-RF, radio frequency TOW, TOW 2A Radio Frequency, TOW 2B Radio Frequency and wireless TOW

I search at DSCA website with a variety of search terms, results as follows:

BGM-71E-4B-RF > Morocco (11/2015), Lebanon (6/2015), Saudi Arabia SANG (12/2009), Bahrain (9/2011)
BGM-71F-3-RF > Oman (1/2016), Bahrain (9/2011)
TOW RF > Morocco (11/2015), Taiwan (12/2015), Lebanon (6/2015), Oman (1/2016), Saudi Arabia (12/2013), Bahrain (9/2011)
TOW 2A > Morocco (11/2015), Lebanon (6/2015), Egypt (9/2008: no RF), Saudi Arabia (12/2013: two entries: 13-52 without RF and 13-57 with RF)
TOW 2B > Taiwan (12/2015), Oman (1/2016), Saudi Arabia (12/2013: two entries: 13-52 without RF and 13-57 with RF)
TOW wireless > [no hits]
TOW radioguided > [no hits]
TOW radio-guided > [no hits]
TOW radio-frequency > Lebanon (6/2015), Saudi Arabia (12/2013)
BGM-71 > Saudi Arabia (12/2013: two entries: 13-52 without RF and 13-57 with RF)
AERO > Oman (1/2016), Taiwan (12/2015), Bahrain (9/2011), Saudi Arabia (12/2013)

Note please:
Israel TOW > [no hits]
Israel BGM-71 > [no hits]
Kuwait BGM-71 > [no hits]
Kuwait TOW > 7/2009 > upgrade Desert Warrior Fire Control System with Gunner's Integrated TOW System (GITS II)

I is not what I mean (or have included/left out).
These are the results for these keywords from Search | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency


If there are no Tow RF in production, how are the intended purchases, announced via DSCA, going to be fullfilled?

G'day Mate

As I said, I think you misunderstood of my post. I simply listing some example, by no mean they are full list of customers and years of TOW 2 RF in production

And also as I said, TOW is not a surplus item, that means that they will not continue production of TOW without any customer. And if there are no current customer and the former contract have been fulfilled, they would simply stop producing TOW Missile, and restart them only after a contract have been secured.

Being out of production and ceased production is different, they are not in production now would mean someday with the right circumstance, production can be resume, but ceased production means the production is stopped regardless of any circumstance and the production line is replaced or move on to produce other item.

I think you have confused with the meaning of the two words.

Davos

 

[Penguin]

G'day Mate

As I said, I think you misunderstood of my post. I simply listing some example, by no mean they are full list of customers and years of TOW 2 RF in production

And also as I said, TOW is not a surplus item, that means that they will not continue production of TOW without any customer. And if there are no current customer and the former contract have been fulfilled, they would simply stop producing TOW Missile, and restart them only after a contract have been secured.

Being out of production and ceased production is different, they are not in production now would mean someday with the right circumstance, production can be resume, but ceased production means the production is stopped regardless of any circumstance and the production line is replaced or move on to produce other item.

I think you have confused with the meaning of the two words.

Davos

That means 'made to order' and implies ongoing production. Out of production = no longer being made (ever again)

 

[500]

Here words of Russian tank expert Victor Murakhovsky, who confirms my words (Google translate with some corrections):

The system of optical-electronic suppression "Shtora-1" - standard armament of the T-90. Mounted spotlight tower emit in the optical and infrared modulated radiation. When the system is turned on, at a distance of 2-2.5 km is suppressed operation of optoelectronic focal ATGM guidance systems. Coordinators receive false commands from these projectors, missile gets incorrect commands, as result its crashed into the ground or flies away.

The probability of failure of missile guidance is about 0.8-0.9.

"Shtora" works well for obsolete missiles Milan, HOT, TOW first modification, "Malyutka", "Fagot", "Falanga", "Konkurs" and others. But in TOW-2A system in addition to the xenon lamp in the aft missile has also an infrared emitter with its modulator, which is perceived by a coordinator, so the suppression of ATGM TOW-2A by "Shtora" system is ineffective. And on advanced vehicles, such as the modernized tanks T-90SM, it is not installed.

Виктор Мураховский об известном видео с Т-90 и TOW-2A

 

[vizier]

I understand the open hatch issue disabling the active defense in the video but even the hatch is open sensors should work to alert the crew and there seems to be a bug somewhere. I hope in Armata there would be a separate backup sensor operator to compensate for jamming or bug issues like these.

 

[Jamwal's]

I wrote TOW-2. U accused me of lie and posted video with Fagot/Konkurs.


Arena is very expensive and never was operational. Shtora jammers on the other hand are operational and super cheap. They are nothing but IR searchlights.


None of tanks above has Shtora jammers:

View attachment 294081

Shtora is obsolete and by removing it gives better protection option,we went for LEDS 150.

........................


Newer camo on T 90 Bhisma

 

[vizier]

If it has shotra then it seems buggy and needs fix.If handful of T90s given to Syria has no measure like even cheap shotras in tow forest then it is worse there seems to be serious planning issues

 

[Penguin]

If it has shotra then it seems buggy and needs fix.If handful of T90s given to Syria has no measure like even cheap shotras in tow forest then it is worse there seems to be serious planning issues

Google Syria + T-90, select images, and see for yourself.

 

[MICA]

Thats not TOW retard. Thats obviously either Fagot or Konkurs.

This is Indian T90:

As u can see, Shtora jammers are removed. Because they are not effective.

This is newest Russian version of T-90:

As u can see, Shtora jammers are removed. Because they are not effective.

maybe the are just removed as both are Export versions ?

 

[Penguin]

maybe the are just removed as both are Export versions ?

Maybe they were removed to make room for other system(s)

 

[MICA]

Maybe they were removed to make room for other system(s)

but if i remember the T-90MS does not offer any anti-tank protective system , and about the shtora was it available for export ?

 

[500]

maybe the are just removed as both are Export versions ?

Indian T-90 was actually more advanced than Russian T-90 of its time.

India got welded turret and thermal sight T-90 in 2001. Russia got welded turret T90 in 2004 and thermal sight only in 2006.

Shtora is not any hitec. Its just IR light, WW2 technology. As I showed, newest Russian T-90 does not have Shtora emitters either:

 

[Jamwal's]

Indian T-90 was actually more advanced than Russian T-90 of its time.

India got welded turret and thermal sight T-90 in 2001. Russia got welded turret T90 in 2004 and thermal sight only in 2006.

Shtora is not any hitec. Its just IR light, WW2 technology. As I showed, newest Russian T-90 does not have Shtora emitters either:

Indian T 90 is heavier than Russian T 90A vladimir due to Kanchan Composite Armor.

@500 can you tell us the main difference between Turret geometry of T 90 and Chinese Tanks ?

What i know that there are several weak spots on chinese turrets as their design lack the principle of Safe manoeuvering angle.

Thanks

 

[Penguin]

but if i remember the T-90MS does not offer any anti-tank protective system , and about the shtora was it available for export ?

The RELIKT system is based on a new element of dynamic protection, EDZ 4S23, which is the latest in the line of dynamic protection elements developed by NII Stali - 4S20, 4S22, 4S24. The new dynamic protection element utilizes a completely new composition of explosives that works effectively against modern and future-generation shaped-charge munitions, including tandem munitions, as well as armour-piercing sub-caliber missiles. Unlike the serially-produced Kontakt-5 system, Relikt works equally reliably against both low-velocity and high-velocity missiles. The hull and the turret are upgraded with detachable modules with built-in explosive reactive armour.

The self-protection of T-90MS includes also an automatic screening system which can create an automatic aerosol screen laying in the direction of enemy's anti-tank means with active laser emission.

T-90MS main battle tank data sheet specifications information specifications pictures | Russia Russian army tank heavy armoured vehicles U | Russia Russian army military equipment vehicles UK

Clearly, armor protection and aerosol screening systems took priority over Shtora

 

[500]

Indian T 90 is heavier than Russian T 90A vladimir due to Kanchan Composite Armor.

@500 can you tell us the main difference between Turret geometry of T 90 and Chinese Tanks ?

What i know that there are several weak spots on chinese turrets as their design lack the principle of Safe manoeuvering angle.

Thanks

Type-99 is combination of Western and Soviet designs.

Type-99 pros:
1) Balanced front area thickness.
2) Much thicker gun mantlet.
3) Better protection of rood from front.
4) Side protection with ERA.
5) Turret bustle allows better balance.
6) Modular design.

T-90 pros:
Much better protection from attacks coming at 20-40 grad.