Are Muslims Better Off in Quaid-e-Azam M.A. Jinnah's Pakistan Today?

[RiazHaq]

Here's CNN on Pak cricket team's gift to Pakistan on Quaid-e-Azam's birthday:

On a day of national celebration in Pakistan, the country's cricket team provided the perfect present for Quaid Day by defeating archrival India in its Twenty20 encounter in Bangalore, India.

On the 136th anniversary since the birth of Father of the Nation, Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, Pakistan's players marked the day in style with a hugely impressive performance.

The Quaid-e-Azam was the man who helped secure the formation of the state of Pakistan on August 14, 1947, and went on to become the nation's first ever governor general.

He is highly revered and his memory was not forgotten by Pakistan captain Mohammad Hafeez, who dedicated the victory to the national hero.

"It is a gift for the whole nation, it is Quaid day back home," said Hafeez following his team's five-wicket victory....

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/25/sport/cricket-india-pakistan/

 

[RiazHaq]

Are you kidding me?

- Sri Lanka has vehemantly protested against LTTE (which Indians here love to threat SL members with).
- BD has major problems with BSF, it also condemns India on water issues.
- Bhutan is the only place which is still favorable (even Maldives has issue with India).

Back in 2000, when LTTE offensive code-named "Operation Ceaseless Waves" overran Sri Lankan military positions in the north and captured the Elephant Pass Base and entered Jaffna, the Sri Lankans received Multi-Barrel Rocket Launcher System (MBRLS) and other high tech weaponry from Pakistan on short notice.

The MBRLS and weapons and ammunition, including artillery shells and multi-barrel rocket launchers, were airlifted in an emergency operation from Karachi to Colombo in May 2000. Later, in 2006, the Sri Lankan authorities had again sought Multi-Barrel Rocket Launcher System (MBRLS) and other advanced weapons from Pakistan when Sri Lankan President Mahinda Rajapaksa visited Pakistan in March 2006 along with an 80-member delegation that included some high ranking military officials. During his talks with the Pakistani leaders, the Sri Lankan President had sought military help from Islamabad to effectively put an end to the LTTE separatist movement.

Haq's Musings: Pakistani Arms Enabled Lanka Defeat of LTTE

 

[Zabaniyah]

I once read an interesting book on Muslim history and its place in the modern world in different countries. It was written by a Turkish author.

Bangladesh (East Pakistan) was once a part of Pakistan. Extensive research into the past indicated some very interesting matters. So, I'll share some here.

When the British first came to Bengal, they did share their knowledge with the populations. What happened is that the Hindus engaged themselves in Western education, Western-style values and life; while the Muslims on the other hand refused to even adopt the much updated and advanced Western education and sciences.

As a result; many Muslims of Bengal were poorly educated, and not up to the competency and strength required to stand against the challenges of the modern world. Some may even say they were inherently backward.

Would the better educated Hindus say: "Hey, let's take some steps back to let the Muslims get more space"(?)

Hindu domination was inevitable given the reality in Bengal. Although, some say the likes of Tagore had a subtle and extreme distaste for Muslims.

It is also a fact that Jinnah did indeed face discrimination in Hindu-dominated Congress at the time. That is what motivated him to join the All India Muslim League, which by the way wasn't founded in Islamabad, but in Dhaka (surprise? surprise?) in order to give the Muslims of the region a sense of identity and most importantly, rights.

Coming back to the present:
Do Muslims in India face discrimination? Do Muslims in India still refuse to embrace modern education and sciences to a large magnitude? I think both are plausible. However, I'd say that the second question weighs in heavily given the history in my part of the neighborhood.

I can't speak for the Punjabis and other ethnic Muslim groups. Only speaking from my point of view since I am a Bengali and a Muslim.

I admit though, there were (and still are) many ignorant and stupid mullahs in Southern Asia.

Is Pakistan better off after the partition? I'd say, yes it is.

 

[IND151]

Partition was a very painful process, but ultimately it was good for both nations-especially India.

India, due to Partition got isolated from troubled Afghanistan and Central Asia, thus eliminating possibility of excessive (relatively) influence of US/Soviet strategies on its decisions.

It saved India from being pawn of great games of Afghanistan, when it was most vulnerable- as society and as political state.

This gave India and its leadership decades to make progress in various fields,make India stable, develop it, make it a progressing nation and ensuring it's emergence as Regional Superpower.

 

[Sashan]

I once read an interesting book on Muslim history and its place in the modern world in different countries. It was written by a Turkish author.

Bangladesh (East Pakistan) was once a part of Pakistan. Extensive research into the past indicated some very interesting matters. So, I'll share some here.

When the British first came to Bengal, they did share their knowledge with the populations. What happened is that the Hindus engaged themselves in Western education, Western-style values and life; while the Muslims on the other hand refused to even adopt the much updated and advanced Western education and sciences.

As a result; many Muslims of Bengal were poorly educated, and not up to the competency and strength required to stand against the challenges of the modern world. Some may even say they were inherently backward.

Would the better educated Hindus say: "Hey, let's take some steps back to let the Muslims get more space"(?)

Hindu domination was inevitable given the reality in Bengal. Although, some say the likes of Tagore had a subtle and extreme distaste for Muslims.

It is also a fact that Jinnah did indeed face discrimination in Hindu-dominated Congress at the time. That is what motivated him to join the All India Muslim League, which by the way wasn't founded in Islamabad, but in Dhaka (surprise? surprise?) in order to give the Muslims of the region a sense of identity and most importantly, rights.

Coming back to the present:
Do Muslims in India face discrimination? Do Muslims in India still refuse to embrace modern education and sciences to a large magnitude? I think both are plausible. However, I'd say that the second question weighs in heavily given the history in my part of the neighborhood.

I can't speak for the Punjabis and other ethnic Muslim groups. Only speaking from my point of view since I am a Bengali and a Muslim.

I admit though, there were (and still are) many ignorant and stupid mullahs in Southern Asia.

Is Pakistan better off after the partition? I'd say, yes it is.

That I would say is a fair assessment - Jinnah was not allowed to express his view and shouted down when he spoke against total independence which Gandhi favored while Jinnah supported home rule in 1920. Jinnah was against Khilafat movement(communalising of politics) while Gandhi supported it. So Jinnah who supported Hindu-Muslim unity in 1916 was away from politics for few years before taking over Muslim League.

As for muslims facing discrimination when it comes to education and jobs? a little when it comes to private employment in small sectors but most of them are self-imposed when it comes to Government jobs or education - quoting Sachar Committee report.

 

[airuah]

If India was bordered with Afghanistan, it would collapse. True story.

lol.....this statement can also be stated like the following
India has had Pakistan for a neighbor and still stays Intact, this in itself is a testament to its solidarity........look at the fate of Afghanistan today which is Pakistan's Neighbor...
On the contrary, Afghanistan would not have been so bad if it were next to India, we would not have channeled in the Taliban.

 

[airmarshal]

It is also a fact that Jinnah did indeed face discrimination in Hindu-dominated Congress at the time. That is what motivated him to join the All India Muslim League, which by the way wasn't founded in Islamabad, but in Dhaka (surprise? surprise?) in order to give the Muslims of the region a sense of identity and most importantly, rights. [/I]

Jinnah faced a lot of discrimination in COngress and that why he started changing his stance from an 'ambassador' of Muslim-Hindu unity or Indian nationalist to a representative of Muslims of South Asia. There is no doubt about it. This is well documented and you want to read about it, there is no exhaustive book than Stanley Wolpert's Jinnah.

Coming to you point of Muslim League being formed in Bengal. Every Pakistani who has read Pakistani history will perfectly know the sacrifices rendered by Muslims of Bengal,Bihar, UP and CP to create a separate homeland for Muslims of South Asia. There is no doubt about it at least in my mind and no one can even question the sense of nationalism the Muslims of these regions demonstrated in creating Pakistan.

What happened in Pakistan after creation was different. The part that is Pakistan now was and still is land of feudals. They did not take part in Pakistan Movement so for them nothing much changed. In fact its these people who still rule our unfortunate country. This status quo has left a lot of people who had a passion for Pakistan, discouraged and disgruntled.

But overall, I would still say, Muslims in Pakistan have tremendously progressed and most of us are thankful for Pakistan.

 

[bronxbull]

I am perfectly happy,i feel hyderabadi muslims,all of them should have migrated to karachi too.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Jinnah faced a lot of discrimination in COngress and that why he started changing his stance from an 'ambassador' of Muslim-Hindu unity or Indian nationalist to a representative of Muslims of South Asia. There is no doubt about it. This is well documented and you want to read about it, there is no exhaustive book than Stanley Wolpert's Jinnah.

Coming to you point of Muslim League being formed in Bengal. Every Pakistani who has read Pakistani history will perfectly know the sacrifices rendered by Muslims of Bengal,Bihar, UP and CP to create a separate homeland for Muslims of South Asia. There is no doubt about it at least in my mind and no one can even question the sense of nationalism the Muslims of these regions demonstrated in creating Pakistan.

What happened in Pakistan after creation was different. The part that is Pakistan now was and still is land of feudals. They did not take part in Pakistan Movement so for them nothing much changed. In fact its these people who still rule our unfortunate country. This status quo has left a lot of people who had a passion for Pakistan, discouraged and disgruntled.

But overall, I would still say, Muslims in Pakistan have tremendously progressed and most of us are thankful for Pakistan.

The concept of "Muslim nationalism" in South Asia is still a rather novel one I'd say. It's still....how should I say...."evolving".

 

[El Weirdo]

I dont get it , why do you (Pakistanis) live in the same era as MA Jinnah? Its time to move on... U guys have a nation (with capable and hard working people) so why ponder in the past?
Why do you guys still discuss that in ur TV programes and News etc every week or so?

Just an honest Question. Is it not time to move on to other more important issues ?

 

[goldstar]

The concept of "Muslim nationalism" in South Asia is still a rather novel one I'd say. It's still....I should I say...."evolving".

Really?

I feel "Muslim nationalism" peaked in South Asia in 1947, when a separate State of Muslims was explicitly created (cant peak any more than that), and subsequently after the initial "Muslim Brotherhood" honeymoon phase subsided, things have continued to go downhill along linguistic/racial/sectarian boundaries for the very same people.

Hell, since we are talking about South Asian Muslims here, in India, Muslims even fight among each other belonging to different castes, believe it or not. There was a recent incident from Bihar, where Muslims belonging to different castes started fighting one another

 

[SamantK]

I am perfectly happy,i feel hyderabadi muslims,all of them should have migrated to karachi too.

Oye kya bolta hai.. I have two of my very god friends as Muslims.. They are very happy in apun ka Hyderabad!

 

[Sedqal]

I dont get it , why do you (Pakistanis) live in the same era as MA Jinnah? Its time to move on... U guys have a nation (with capable and hard working people) so why ponder in the past?
Why do you guys still discuss that in ur TV programes and News etc every week or so?

Just an honest Question. Is it not time to move on to other more important issues ?

December 25th is Jinnah day. Since elections are near every party is claiming to be following Jinnah, which means the spot light is on him. In Any case Jinnah is immensely respected in Pakistan, he is the founder of the country - that doesn't mean we are living in Jinnah's time or using his name for ignoring current issues.

 

[bronxbull]

Lahore/Lyallpur mein bhi bahuth shareef log thay 1947 par koi nahi bachaya kisiko,

Dost hyderabadaan mere bhi hain par jab mohalla mein aag lag jaati hain,tab sab bhaagte hain,koi kisika nahi sunta.

 

[Icewolf]

Really?

I feel "Muslim nationalism" peaked in South Asia in 1947, when a separate State of Muslims was explicitly created (cant peak any more than that), and subsequently after the initial "Muslim Brotherhood" honeymoon phase subsided, things have continued to go downhill along linguistic/racial/sectarian boundaries for the very same people.

Hell, since we are talking about South Asian Muslims here, in India, Muslims even fight among each other belonging to different castes, believe it or not. There was a recent incident from Bihar, where Muslims belonging to different castes started fighting one another

Quran has forbidden discrimination and Hindu belief of caste system.

Anyone who practices caste system is not muslim & just posers

Not surprising i see it from indian muslims.