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Are Heterosexual Taliban a Dying Breed?

^ That video of yours still doesn't prove that they are Pashtuns, nor did it prove that it's a Pashtun norm. Remember, you said bachabazi is an ACCEPTED NORM amongst Pashtuns and you need to proof that. I can find videos made by NA's men which are a million times more worse and disgusting where absolutely no Pashtu is being spoken, now after watching that video, would you care to call it a non-Pashtun norm? And don't worry ignorants can't hurt me, if you were wise and knowing enough then at the very least you would have found out the meaning of the word 'bachabaz', where it originates from, and where it originally came from.

And since I can't PM you because of my posts' count, feel free to send me a visitors' message instead.
 
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Yaa one hand West allows a stupid proposition like gay "marriage"(WTF) , on there hand they taught to hate anything gay as part of Pseudo machismo upbringing.

Talking about Homosexuality in India , this was so alien to our culture we don't have a word for " Gay " either in sanskrit or local-languages. I've not read a single story involving gay behavior or sexual relations between two men, in Ramayana, Mahabharata or any other hindu mythologies

Though we have mention of the transgenders or hermaphrodite characters like Srikandhi in Hindu epic Mahabharata .

There is logical mistake in your statement.
 
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I suppose all liberal fascists are comfy with the educated gays world population of the West an astounding 8% of world population.

HIV Rising Among Young Gay Men In The US
An analysis by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) of HIV diagnoses among men who have sex with men shows a disturbing 12 per cent annual increase in new cases among 13 to 24 year olds.
 
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That video of Indian cricketers is sick and disturbing. I wouldn't even want to play with the same ball these people have touched, after their hands are cosying around each other's.. Uranus.

And the best defence Indians here can come up with, is that since Pakistanis posted that video, they "must be gay". Dude the Indian team is doing that right in front of you. THEY ARE GAY. "You must be gay too" is the lamest defence I've ever seen.

India also had a gay-rights rally a little while back. Traditionally, this stuff has never been a part of any Eastern culture, I personally feel like Bollywood copies the west in everything. Homosexuality used to be considered perverted and deeply disturbing even in the west until very recently. We can't update our moral values everyday, to suit their ever-changing moral definitions.

What's next - serial-killing is such a natural and beautiful thing, people who refuse to accept serial-killers as good, wonderful people are hereby unacceptable@!
 
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^ That video of yours still doesn't prove that they are Pashtuns, nor did it prove that it's a Pashtun norm. Remember, you said bachabazi is an ACCEPTED NORM amongst Pashtuns and you need to proof that. I can find videos made by NA's men which are a million times more worse and disgusting where absolutely no Pashtu is being spoken, now after watching that video, would you care to call it a non-Pashtun norm? And don't worry ignorants can't hurt me, if you were wise and knowing enough then at the very least you would have found out the meaning of the word 'bachabaz', where it originates from, and where it originally came from.

And since I can't PM you because of my posts' count, feel free to send me a visitors' message instead.

since you asked about something happening in your country ,a place i'v nevered visisted and insisted with strong words to give more evidence of Bachabazi in Pasthuns dominated areas of Aghanistan ,I am putting out this supposedly neutral article from an American news paper.

Afghanistan's dirty little secret


Western forces fighting in southern Afghanistan had a problem. Too often, soldiers on patrol passed an older man walking hand-in-hand with a pretty young boy. Their behavior suggested he was not the boy's father. Then, British soldiers found that young Afghan men were actually trying to "touch and fondle them," military investigator AnnaMaria Cardinalli told me. "The soldiers didn't understand."

All of this was so disconcerting that the Defense Department hired Cardinalli, a social scientist, to examine this mystery. Her report, "Pashtun Sexuality," startled not even one Afghan. But Western forces were shocked - and repulsed.

For centuries, Afghan men have taken boys, roughly 9 to 15 years old, as lovers. Some research suggests that half the Pashtun tribal members in Kandahar and other southern towns are bacha baz, the term for an older man with a boy lover. Literally it means "boy player." The men like to boast about it.

"Having a boy has become a custom for us," Enayatullah, a 42-year-old in Baghlan province, told a Reuters reporter. "Whoever wants to show off should have a boy."

Baghlan province is in the northeast, but Afghans say pedophilia is most prevalent among Pashtun men in the south. The Pashtun are Afghanistan's most important tribe. For centuries, the nation's leaders have been Pashtun.

President Hamid Karzai is Pashtun, from a village near Kandahar, and he has six brothers. So the natural question arises: Has anyone in the Karzai family been bacha baz? Two Afghans with close connections to the Karzai family told me they know that at least one family member and perhaps two were bacha baz. Afraid of retribution, both declined to be identified and would not be more specific for publication.

As for Karzai, an American who worked in and around his palace in an official capacity for many months told me that homosexual behavior "was rampant" among "soldiers and guys on the security detail. They talked about boys all the time."

He added, "I didn't see Karzai with anyone. He was in his palace most of the time." He, too, declined to be identified.

In Kandahar, population about 500,000, and other towns, dance parties are a popular, often weekly, pastime. Young boys dress up as girls, wearing makeup and bells on their feet, and dance for a dozen or more leering middle-aged men who throw money at them and then take them home. A recent State Department report called "dancing boys" a "widespread, culturally sanctioned form of male rape."

So, why are American and NATO forces fighting and dying to defend tens of thousands of proud pedophiles, certainly more per capita than any other place on Earth? And how did Afghanistan become the pedophilia capital of Asia?

Sociologists and anthropologists say the problem results from perverse interpretation of Islamic law. Women are simply unapproachable. Afghan men cannot talk to an unrelated woman until after proposing marriage. Before then, they can't even look at a woman, except perhaps her feet. Otherwise she is covered, head to ankle.

"How can you fall in love if you can't see her face," 29-year-old Mohammed Daud told reporters. "We can see the boys, so we can tell which are beautiful."

Even after marriage, many men keep their boys, suggesting a loveless life at home. A favored Afghan expression goes: "Women are for children, boys are for pleasure." Fundamentalist imams, exaggerating a biblical passage on menstruation, teach that women are "unclean" and therefore distasteful. One married man even asked Cardinalli's team "how his wife could become pregnant," her report said. When that was explained, he "reacted with disgust" and asked, "How could one feel desire to be with a woman, who God has made unclean?"

That helps explain why women are hidden away - and stoned to death if they are perceived to have misbehaved. Islamic law also forbids homosexuality. But the pedophiles explain that away. It's not homosexuality, they aver, because they aren't in love with their boys.

Addressing the loathsome mistreatment of Afghan women remains a primary goal for coalition governments, as it should be.

But what about the boys, thousands upon thousands of little boys who are victims of serial rape over many years, destroying their lives - and Afghan society.

"There's no issue more horrifying and more deserving of our attention than this," Cardinalli said. "I'm continually haunted by what I saw."

As one boy, in tow of a man he called "my lord," told the Reuters reporter: "Once I grow up, I will be an owner, and I will have my own boys."

© 2010 Joel Brinkley


Joel Brinkley is a professor of journalism at Stanford University and is a former Pulitzer Prize-winning foreign correspondent for the New York Times. Contact The Chronicle via our online form: sfgate.com/chronicle/submissions/#1.

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PS: This article has been discussed on defence.pk before .For those interested link below.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/71160-afghanistans-dirty-little-secret-bacha-baz-2.html
 
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And once again, Manas, you failed to prove bachabazi is an ACCEPTED NORM amongst Pashtuns. But coming to your so called 'neutral' article (or shall I say PERSONAL blog):

Too often, soldiers on patrol passed an older man walking hand-in-hand with a pretty young boy. Their behavior suggested he was not the boy's father. Then, British soldiers found that young Afghan men were actually trying to "touch and fondle them,"
LOL holding hands is seen as very normal back in the country, whether they are friends, siblings, father and son, etcetera. Not because they are homos or want to 'touch and fondle' each other, but because they consider it normal, just like how Iranians consider it normal to kiss their fellow males on their cheeks while greeting. Does that make them homo too? Even then, I still don't understand why the western forces would have a problem with that, while in one of the western countries (the Netherlands) 'rights' of paedophiles is being protected. :disagree:

military investigator AnnaMaria Cardinalli
This woman is the very same person who blamed the sexuality of the Afghan policemen and soldiers for the failure of British and American troops in Afghanistan. :lol: According to her if the soldiers and policemen 'act heterosexual' again only then the foreign forces can succeed in their mission, and you are quoting such an insane moron? :lol: While a fact is that it's not because of the soldiers and policemen's sexuality why NATO is failing, it's because of resistance of southern Afghans: a fact NATO will never learn to digest.

Some research suggests that half the Pashtun tribal members in Kandahar and other southern towns are bacha baz, the term for an older man with a boy lover. Literally it means "boy player."
I would like to know who those researches are who are joking that half of tribal Kandaharis are bachabaz, especially since it were these very same Kandaharis who ousted Gulagha Sherzai with great humiliation when news came out (which turned out to be false) that he is a bachabaz. And more so, I guess I am lucky that I haven't been 'harassed' by any tribal Kandahari during my two months stay there...? ;)

Having a boy has become a custom for us," Enayatullah, a 42-year-old in Baghlan province, told a Reuters reporter. "Whoever wants to show off should have a boy."
Baghlan, an overwhelming non-Pashtun province. Thank you.

Baghlan province is in the northeast, but Afghans say pedophilia is most prevalent among Pashtun men in the south.
Which Afghans? The warlords? Soldiers? Or NA themselves?

President Hamid Karzai is Pashtun, from a village near Kandahar, and he has six brothers. So the natural question arises: Has anyone in the Karzai family been bacha baz? Two Afghans with close connections to the Karzai family told me they know that at least one family member and perhaps two were bacha baz.
This part literally made me LOL, thanks for the laugh mate. :cheers:

As for Karzai, an American who worked in and around his palace in an official capacity for many months told me that homosexual behavior "was rampant" among "soldiers and guys on the security detail.
And can you confirm whose men the soldiers and security men are, Manas? Exactly, NA's men, a non-Pashtun organisation full of rapists, drug traffickers, murderers and what not. Karzai is there just for the namesake, it's the NA who decides who to appoint in which post, from the policemen to the soldiers. The only reason why NA and their northern counterparts manage to escape the 'bachabazi' news is because of their corporation with the western forces (unlike the southerners) and because of lack of foreign forces in the north.

Young boys dress up as girls, wearing makeup and bells on their feet, and dance for a dozen or more leering middle-aged men who throw money at them and then take them home.
And, once again, especially in the past ten years, none of those so called researches managed to record even ONE video of bachabazi in Kandahar, while youtube is full of such videos recorded in Mazar, Takhar and other northern areas. There we go, again. :)

So, why are American and NATO forces fighting and dying to defend tens of thousands of proud pedophiles, certainly more per capita than any other place on Earth? And how did Afghanistan become the pedophilia capital of Asia?
The foreign forces have been in Afghanistan since 2001, and when did the American and British forces 'order' a research upon Pashtun sexuality again? Uhm, wasn't it in 2009, eight years later? When the US and British forces' conditions went from bad to worse? And guess what the excuse was? Exactly what this article writer's and Cardinalli's excuse was: that homosexuality/paedophilia increases misunderstanding between the Afghan and foreign forces, LOL. We are not stupid here, therefore we can see every lame attempt made by the NATO just to hide their failure to control southern Afghanistan. Dot.

Sociologists and anthropologists say the problem results from perverse interpretation of Islamic law. Women are simply unapproachable. Afghan men cannot talk to an unrelated woman until after proposing marriage. Before then, they can't even look at a woman, except perhaps her feet.
And this person very clearly, and loudly, has never visited Afghanistan. And I mean NEVER. Mazar is THE most open city of entire Afghanistan, and bachabazi is THE biggest practise over there and women aren't even covered literally from head to toe. And the reason for that is the enormous amount of warlords in Mazar, who have destroyed thousands of houses, and there is nothing the local Mazaris can do about it.

One married man even asked Cardinalli's team "how his wife could become pregnant," her report said. When that was explained, he "reacted with disgust" and asked, "How could one feel desire to be with a woman, who God has made unclean?"
:rofl:

That helps explain why women are hidden away - and stoned to death if they are perceived to have misbehaved.
So are men. It happened earlier this year in Kunduz where a couple, both girlfriend AND boyfriend, were stoned to death for committing adultery.

Islamic law also forbids homosexuality. But the pedophiles explain that away. It's not homosexuality, they aver, because they aren't in love with their boys.
:what:

But what about the boys, thousands upon thousands of little boys who are victims of serial rape over many years, destroying their lives - and Afghan society.
Indeed, this viciously disgusting act should be punished with the worse death a human being has seen. This has spoilt the entire society, the image of an entire country, lives of many children. Because of this very disgusting act the entire country is defamed, despite of the extreme disgust towards this practise by the ordinary civilians. If you had tagged this as a norm amongst the powerful Afghans (warlords, politicians, etcetera), Manas, then you wouldn't have had any disagreement. But to tag this as a norm towards an entire race (Pashtuns) is extremely immature and indeed until and as long as you haven't visited Afghanistan, especially the Pashtun areas, please, keep quiet about it. And Kandahar, by the way, with a population of 500,000 people, doesn't represent circa 14 million Pashtuns across Afghanistan!
 
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hope we dont mix race to this issue, as it has nothing to do with race.
 
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hope we dont mix race to this issue, as it has nothing to do with race.

don't blame me for it .

I have stated Bachabazi for whatever reason is prevalent of in Afghanistan irrespective of ethnicity.

Watani, on the other hand arguing everyone do Bachabazi expect the Pasthuns.:coffee:

And can you confirm whose men the soldiers and security men are, Manas? Exactly, NA's men, a non-Pashtun organisation full of rapists, drug traffickers, murderers and what not. Karzai is there just for the namesake, it's the NA who decides who to appoint in which post, from the policemen to the soldiers. The only reason why NA and their northern counterparts manage to escape the 'bachabazi' news is because of their corporation with the western forces (unlike the southerners) and because of lack of foreign forces in the north.

And, once again, especially in the past ten years, none of those so called researches managed to record even ONE video of bachabazi in Kandahar, while youtube is full of such videos recorded in Mazar, Takhar and other northern areas. There we go, again.

nd this person very clearly, and loudly, has never visited Afghanistan. And I mean NEVER. Mazar is THE most open city of entire Afghanistan, and bachabazi is THE biggest practise over there and women aren't even covered literally from head to toe
 
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^ Nopes, YOU were the one who tagged it as an accepted norm amongst Pashtuns, I proved otherwise. Read my last paragraph where I stated that this practise is ruining an entire society, it's defaming an entire nation, BUT I also stated that the practise is going on amongst powerful elites, NOT amongst ordinary civilians! And my words you just quoted, even that was about the powerful men, NOT the ordinary non-Pashtuns of Afghanistan.
 
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don't blame me for it .

I have stated Bachabazi for whatever reason is prevalent of in Afghanistan irrespective of ethnicity.

Watani, on the other hand arguing everyone do Bachabazi expect the Pasthuns.:coffee:
honestly, i didnt read your posts or Watani's posts, but in last ones i saw the terms which refered to races. But anyways, this issue of bachabazi is illegal according to the law of the land and it is practiced among rouge circles belonging to all ethnicities which has nothing to do with common man.
 
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@watani

You are hanging on to my phrase " accepted norm among pashtuns " and refuse to accept it for what it means though as yourself has stated in no uncertain terms of rampant practice of Bachabazi is going unhindered without culprits securing punishment.

What do you exactly mean to say that pashtuns do its sparingly , not as a norm and the rest of Afghan , especially the powerful NA warlords do it more ??

Anyway if its done by the powerful elite , doesn't it make it norm ??
 
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^ Listen to Ahmad, a non-Pashtun who states exactly what I state. It is not commonly practised amongst ordinary civilians, they rather look down upon it and you can ask this any ORDINARY civilian (NOT soldiers, policemen, relatives of the politicians, etcetera) about it. And no, if powerful elites practise it then it doesn't make it an Afghan or specifically Pashtun norm. Those elites are the ones who destroyed the entire country, ruined millions of lives, and sold out the country time on time and like our entire population, they are not in millions. And they remain unpunished, for a gazillionth time, because they are related to the warlords who will protect them. That's why I gave Gulagha Sherzai as an example, who wasn't powerful nor related to a warlord, and got ousted by entire of Kandahar for suspicion on bachabazi. And once again, do not confuse homosexuality for bachabazi, and on top of that tag it as an accepted norm amongst a specific tribe.
 
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Indians seem very ignorant. A video gets posted showing famous Indian crickets openly being gay, and because the video is clear and pretty sick, suddenly to Indians everyone else must be gay too.

The fact is that Afghanistan imposes Islamic law very strictly. In Islam, the punishment for this disturbed aberration is death by stoning. If you see the fierce Moulvis that can be found in Afghan mosques in most areas - they do not even tolerate weak/incorrect recitation of the Holy Quran, this type of thing is obviously not the norm to anyone familiar with the ground reality.

The US-media article is propaganda, the US society accepts this type of sick behavior, and they get excited trying to paint everyone with the same brush. Given that India had a huge gay-parade a little while back, it appears India has alot more gays than Afghanistan ever would.

Just because many Afghan women wear Burqas doesn't mean all the men are gay. The western societies Bollywood tries to desperately copy, parade women around with almost no clothing, it doesn't make all their men *free* and un-repressed, it actually fuels perversion and deviant behavior in their culture. Children get bombarded by this uncivilized parading around of naked women in their culture, even homosexuality isn't a very deviant thing for them. Even cases of beastiality are found often and reported in their media.

I guess tomorrow they may change their ethics/rules that they impose on everyone, and say that people who think beastiality is deeply disturbing are to be hated and loathed. Homosexuality was considered a very disturbing thing in their culture until very recently, but now people who say it's wrong are disliked. They try to impose their sick ever-changing morality on the world.
 
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Watani @ Why some young Afghani boys/kids are often dressed as girls and painted with wakeup and they sing and dance in adult parties. There are plenty videos on youtube and these videos look weird to me and convey negative image of Islam and Afghanistan.
 
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