Archbishop's Sharia comment sparks row

[roadrunner]

Jana dear, I am not criticizing Islam, but looking at the issue from the point of view of a native britisher.

There are several factors in play here:

Firstly, Britain, and most of Europe, has become increasingly agnostic, and tend to view religion as an unfortunate superstition.

Secondly, the recent record of Islam has been anything but endearing. When the average brit thinks of muslims, he doesn't feel any love or compassion for them. Instead, he remembers the bombings and all the stuff about terrorism being beamed to his TV screen.

Well, that's bs and merely your own biased imagination at play. We all tend to think others think the same way as we do, and therefore prejudge what others think without the slightest knowledge of it. I, for example, believe that all "Britishers" think of Indians as slimy, short, dark complexioned weaklings that cave into any demand that a fairer, more Aryan-esque person might make of him. This, however, is just my own opinion, and to suggest all British people think like this would be incorrect. Much in the same way you're presumptions of the views of Muslims. If anything, most people view others on an individual basis, rather than broad categorizations, into Muslim, or Black, or White. I would say you're talking nonsense in my experience.

Thirdly, muslims in Britain have a reputation for engaging in anti-national activities. When a large group of Muslims come out into the street chanting ant-Britain slogans in the street on a regular basis, it doesn't add to the rep.

Well, that's a bare-faced lie. There's no "regular basis" of anti British slogans shouted out. You need to stop reading right-wing fascist websites, and salivating at the thought of considering yourself as a welcome citizen compared to others. If anything Indians get beaten up the most in the UK according to the statistics. This could just be to them being weaker though.

Fourthly, elaborating on my earlier post, people fear that that giving a quarter to the Islamists will open a pandora's box of demands, until Britain is forced to give up its indegenous values in order to accomodate a foreign ideology.


Read the following articles:

Muslim husbands with more than one wife to get extra benefits as ministers recognise polygamy| News | This is London

Doctors should not eat in front of Muslims during Ramadan says Scottish NHS -Times Online

Daily Express: The World's Greatest Newspaper :: News / Showbiz :: Nurses told to turn Muslims’ beds to Mecca

BBC NEWS | UK | Education | Three Little Pigs 'too offensive'

I don't think most "Britishers" actually care whether a hosptal bed is pointing towards Mecca or not, so long as it doesn't affect their own healthcare. On the subject of benefits, I personally would like to see people living off benefits have their benefits taken away. But again, many other people abuse the benefit system in the UK, and the US, and within Europe. Whether it's done using a polygamy tag or a lot of child benefits is not important. Abuse is abuse.

^^^^To top it all, Its ridiculous demands like these, which convince britons that there should be no compromise with the muslims.

Lastly, Britons feel that their laws are more nuanced, far better written, expressed, and more fair than Islamic ones.

I for one, agree. Say what you will, Islamic laws, though a shining accomplishment of their day, are medieval, and crude in comparison with the British Common Law.

Sharia law is not any set law. Jana is quite correct to point out certain aspects of Sharia law would fit in well with British law, and you are incorrect in the belief that Sharia law can only be a 7th century medieval, harsh code, when it's quite adaptable and depends on INTERPRETATION. Pakistani Sharia law, for example, uses the British Penal Code, and that is still Sharia Law. You won't accept this, obviously, but I've made this very clear for anyone else reading. Afaik, the British legal system, and some aspects of Sharia law overlap (as Jana pointed out).

 

[Flintlock]

RR, comeon, admit it. You're a racist, aren't you.

 

[roadrunner]

RR, comeon, admit it. You're a racist, aren't you.

Gee nahi, chotee sai.

 

[Flintlock]

Gee nahi, chotee sai.

Its alright...you can come out of that racial closet whenever you feel comfortable enough to do so.

 

[Flintlock]

Well, that's bs and merely your own biased imagination at play. We all tend to think others think the same way as we do, and therefore prejudge what others think without the slightest knowledge of it. I, for example, believe that all "Britishers" think of Indians as slimy, short, dark complexioned weaklings that cave into any demand that a fairer, more Aryan-esque person might make of him. This, however, is just my own opinion, and to suggest all British people think like this would be incorrect. Much in the same way you're presumptions of the views of Muslims. If anything, most people view others on an individual basis, rather than broad categorizations, into Muslim, or Black, or White. I would say you're talking nonsense in my experience. .

Friend, sterotypes are much, far more powerful than you think. As they say, Islam is as Islam does. People will notice, and remember, the more vocal, more agressive fraction of the muslim population, and also remember their more radical acts.

Another important observation, is that globalization has not just spread secularism and democracy It has also led to the spread of religious ideas.
In the past, muslim communities across the world were isolated enough to evolve their own interpretations of islam based on their local culture.Thus South India, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc. followed Islam in different ways.
Now, with the information explosion, muslims around the world have a better chance to integrate and evolve a global islam than ever before.
So where do young muslims, feeling alienated in their adopted countries, turn to in order to learn about their religion? Saudi Arabia of course. Get my drift?







.

Well, that's a bare-faced lie. There's no "regular basis" of anti British slogans shouted out. You need to stop reading right-wing fascist websites, and salivating at the thought of considering yourself as a welcome citizen compared to others. If anything Indians get beaten up the most in the UK according to the statistics. This could just be to them being weaker though.
.

I don't need to read "Fascist" websites to get the daily news.

.

I don't think most "Britishers" actually care whether a hosptal bed is pointing towards Mecca or not, so long as it doesn't affect their own healthcare. On the subject of benefits, I personally would like to see people living off benefits have their benefits taken away. But again, many other people abuse the benefit system in the UK, and the US, and within Europe. Whether it's done using a polygamy tag or a lot of child benefits is not important. Abuse is abuse. .

Did you even read the articles properly, or just glanced at the headline?

.

Sharia law is not any set law. Jana is quite correct to point out certain aspects of Sharia law would fit in well with British law, and you are incorrect in the belief that Sharia law can only be a 7th century medieval, harsh code, when it's quite adaptable and depends on INTERPRETATION. Pakistani Sharia law, for example, uses the British Penal Code, and that is still Sharia Law. You won't accept this, obviously, but I've made this very clear for anyone else reading. Afaik, the British legal system, and some aspects of Sharia law overlap (as Jana pointed out).

The INTERPRETATION is subject to WHO INTERPRETS IT. If Agnostic Muslim here gains enough clout to interpret Sharia law for the muslims of the world, I doubt we will have any issues.

But I have grave doubts whether anyone other than the most cobwebbed of muslim minds will be deciding what exactly sharia law is.

Oh please, Pakistan does not follow Sharia law, it follows British Common Law, with some changes to make it acceptable to the most liberal of muslims. Ask any cleric in any mosque of the world: Pakistan is not following sharia law.

Read this:

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan's Sharia law criticised

Don't believe myths about sharia law | World news | The Observer

^^If the residents of NWFPand these women thought that they already had Sharia law, they wouldn't be asking for it.

 

[solid snake]

how is that extremism? they're not pushing for full laws, only marital and other smaller issues, which, by the way, are given to people of jewish faith in UK.

What laws do Muslims want to see implemented? Could you elaborate please? Or anyone else who knows what British Muslims want.

Do they want 4 wives? Do they want to marry 14 year old girls? Do they want to marry their cousins? What do they want?

I'm curious what is so unfair about British marriage laws that Muslims want to see them changed. Oh can you also link me to an official British website that mentions these Jewish laws you speak of?

The problem with Sharia law is, that it goes against the principles British ethics, morality, and possibly their constitution.

The second problem, is that it is very difficult to separate Islam from Political Islam. The two invariably go together, and frankly, no one in Britain wants to give an inch of political power to something as dreadful (to the British) as the Saudi version of Islam.

I agree. Once you let one little law slip in, next thing they will demand that people be executed for "insulting" the prophet. It's a slippery slope.

RR, comeon, admit it. You're a racist, aren't you.

Yes, he is. I've noticed. Closet Nazi.

 

[divineflame]

Well its just for basic issue and i think its not extremism.

Tell me if a Muslim Woman or Muslim man wants divorce will her/his case would be decided according to US, British law ??????????????????

Nope.. It should be according to Muslim Personal Law (May not be sariah, similar kind of law which is acceptable to muslim). Sariah does not fit in mordern context, that is why even countries like pakistan has not accepted it.

But any personal faith issues should be dealt with Personal Laws.

 

[roadrunner]

I'll take this one step at a time

The INTERPRETATION is subject to WHO INTERPRETS IT. If Agnostic Muslim here gains enough clout to interpret Sharia law for the muslims of the world, I doubt we will have any issues.

Don't you think the British government would leave it to an educated British Muslim to interpret Sharia law? Why would they get an Indian one for this?

Like I say, Sharia law is very much in line with British Law in some cases.

But I have grave doubts whether anyone other than the most cobwebbed of muslim minds will be deciding what exactly sharia law is.

That's because you are clueless as to how powerful governments are in deciding their own laws. If one aspect of Sharia not "kosher" with the elite in any country, it will not be passed as a law.

Oh please, Pakistan does not follow Sharia law, it follows British Common Law, with some changes to make it acceptable to the most liberal of muslims. Ask any cleric in any mosque of the world: Pakistan is not following sharia law.

Like I said before, but it didn't register with you, if you go and cherry pick a few Muslims like some clerics (not even all clerics, since Pakistani Sharia was interpreted by some liberal-minded clerics), then they will say it's not Sharia Law. But others will say it is Sharia Law, because nothing in there contradicts Islamic Sharia. Therefore it's in line with Sharia Law.

Read this:

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan's Sharia law criticised

Don't believe myths about sharia law | World news | The Observer

^^If the residents of NWFPand these women thought that they already had Sharia law, they wouldn't be asking for it.

You can cherry pick all you want to. The fact will remain that Sharia law is not decided by a minority of people moaning about what it is, Sharia law is a flexible set of laws that are open to interpretation. If you can read, read this

Enforcement of Shar'iah Act, 1991

It is part of the Constitution of Pakistan and is used currently. The Enforcement of Sharia Act, enforces Sharia law in the country, and it follows the British Penal Code set out after Partition (some minor amendments). This should prove that according to at least the scholars in Pakistan, that Sharia Law and British law OVERLAP to an extent (which is what Jana tried to drill into your head earlier).

 

[araz]

I think it pertained to Muslim Law in relation to marriage and devorce. For instance, as a Christian or Jew you can be married in a church or a synagogue, and have that marriage recognized but not in a masjid. Similarly, Laws in relation to devorce and settlements are much better developed, as they take a balanced views.
The Arch Bishop is an educated man, who unfortunately has opined on the wrong subject in the Islamophobic western society,at the wrong time.
Araz

 

[roadrunner]

Nope.. It should be according to Muslim Personal Law (May not be sariah, similar kind of law which is acceptable to muslim). Sariah does not fit in mordern context, that is why even countries like pakistan has not accepted it.

But any personal faith issues should be dealt with Personal Laws.

What laws do Muslims want to see implemented? Could you elaborate please? Or anyone else who knows what British Muslims want.

Do they want 4 wives? Do they want to marry 14 year old girls? Do they want to marry their cousins? What do they want?

I'm curious what is so unfair about British marriage laws that Muslims want to see them changed. Oh can you also link me to an official British website that mentions these Jewish laws you speak of?

This is all your own respective ignorances, since Sharia has nothing to do with allowing 4 wives. Some Sharia law interpretations can outlaw polygamous marriages, and this would be perfectly Sharia. There is a justification from the Qu'ran and Hadith to say Sharia Law only permits 1 wife (the exception being in extraordinary cases). And Pakistan does have Sharia Law DivineFlame, it is described in the link above.

Yes, he is. I've noticed. Closet Nazi.

Keep dreaming, not that it affects me much..since I know you two are more fascist than most on here in your anti-Islamic rants, and resulting popularity with the Indian congregations.

 

[roadrunner]

what have the muslims done moron,
the arch bishop isnt a muslim dik

Dude, the guy is a little zit popping sycophantic twerp that hasn't been outside of his house or held down a job any greater than his work experience in 5th grade high school. He'll grow up soon - hoepfully in India, and be treated well by Stealth Assassin in the great Gangetic Plains

 

[solid snake]

This is all your own respective ignorances, since Sharia has nothing to do with allowing 4 wives. Some Sharia law interpretations can outlaw polygamous marriages, and this would be perfectly Sharia. There is a justification from the Qu'ran and Hadith to say Sharia Law only permits 1 wife (the exception being in extraordinary cases). And Pakistan does have Sharia Law DivineFlame, it is described in the link above.

You completely ignored my question though. What do British Muslims want to be included in British law?

It would be good to know.

Keep dreaming, not that it affects me much..since I know you two are more fascist than most on here in your anti-Islamic rants, and resulting popularity with the Indian congregations.

It is pretty clear to anyone who reads your post that you think you are some sort of superhuman aryan descended from God himself. Get off your high horse and stop insulting Dravidians and so forth. One's race, skin color and anything else does not matter. It seems funny that the inferior Dravidians are beating us racially superior Pakistanis at everything.

Dude, the guy is a little zit popping sycophantic twerp that hasn't been outside of his house or held down a job any greater than his work experience in 5th grade high school. He'll grow up soon - hoepfully in India, and be treated well by Stealth Assassin in the great Gangetic Plains

Very choicy insults, I'm impressed. But just FYI, I'm a 20 year old student, and I don't have a job. I have lived in all parts of Pakistan, I know all kinds of Pakistanis from the conservative Mardani to the rich wine drinking elites of Karachi to the humble, hospitable Gilgiti. You think I haven't ever left my house? hahahaha

And as a Pakistani a lot of times it hurts to admit it, but credit is to be given where it is due. India is a lot better than us in a lot of ways. Your head is way too far up your own backside to acknowledge that, but it's okay, there are bigots like you in America, in Russia and even in India as well.

I wonder what a Dravidian kid did to you in pre-school to make you hate them so much.

 

[Spring Onion]

It seems funny that the inferior Dravidians are beating us racially superior Pakistanis at everything.

On lighter note Yes they had beaten us in everything even in Hunger

 

[roadrunner]

You completely ignored my question though. What do British Muslims want to be included in British law?

It would be good to know.

I didn't ignore any question. You didn't ask anything - at least anything resembling a question that made any sense.

Questions are easily formulated to cause a specific result to occur. Depending on how words are put together..you probably won't understand what I mean, so keep on being ignorant. Others, I'm hoping will.

It is pretty clear to anyone who reads your post that you think you are some sort of superhuman aryan descended from God himself. Get off your high horse and stop insulting Dravidians and so forth.

This surely is an assumpion on your part. I don't believe I mentioned in any post anywhere that Dravidians were categorically inferior. I am free to give my opinion that others are weaker, just as Stealth Assassin and you are free to give your opinions that Islam is a monolithic religion that can only consist of extremist ideology that slaughtered Hinduism and other such falsitudes. As an extremist, you yourself, fit the radical fascist billing perfectly.

But I await these juicy quotes made where I said that Dravidians WERE inferior to myself/Aryans. Else, it's just another presumptuous ignorant statement of hundreds you have made on here.

One's race, skin color and anything else does not matter. It seems funny that the inferior Dravidians are beating us racially superior Pakistanis at everything.

Not in boxing or warfare my Dravidian friend.

Very choicy insults, I'm impressed. But just FYI, I'm a 20 year old student, and I don't have a job.

The jobs bit I had gathered, the 20 year old bit I had not. You sounded tops 14.

I have lived in all parts of Pakistan, I know all kinds of Pakistanis from the conservative Mardani to the rich wine drinking elites of Karachi to the humble, hospitable Gilgiti. You think I haven't ever left my house? hahahaha

I know for a fact you haven't by the fact you think you know it all, when your opinions are so bloody backward and ignorant like your beliefs that sharia law are some monolithic set of rules. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Einstein, and you just about proved the second one!

And as a Pakistani a lot of times it hurts to admit it, but credit is to be given where it is due. India is a lot better than us in a lot of ways. Your head is way too far up your own backside to acknowledge that, but it's okay, there are bigots like you in America, in Russia and even in India as well.

I wonder what a Dravidian kid did to you in pre-school to make you hate them so much.

Nice and original too. It has nothing to do with Dravid this or Dravid that. In the threads I post, they are simply factual content. You find me one thing I have not said that is fact based. One will do. I can prove all I say, everything comes from sources. Even the skin coloration maps I produced were given by the best scientists in the world, which you in your denial, tried to ridicule on the basis you knew more than the top scientists! Reasoning such as America should not be coloured darker than Turkey are sheer ignorance when the map is based on INDIGENOUS populations! You are most definitely mentally 14!

 

[solid snake]

On lighter note Yes they had beaten us in everything even in Hunger

Their per capita income is higher than ours. Their growth rate is higher than ours. They are a democracy since 1947. I could go on...but it would send me into depression.