Apache AH-64D Block III vs Mi-28NE: What is good for India?

[Major Shaitan Singh]

Mi-28NE suites Indian Inviroment (Mountains and deep forest and vast deserts)

One need to check wether it can be integrated with Hell Fire Missiles and FGM-148 Javelin Missiles it will make him more powerfull.

POWERPLANTS: 2 x TV3-117VMA turboshafts.

MISSION: The Mi-28NE gunship is designed to engage armoured and soft-skinned ground, sea and air targets, provide close air support to ground troops, escort tactical airborne troops, conduct air-to-air combat and air reconnaissance in all weather conditions, during stand-alone and group missions with automated target designation and distribution.

The Mi-28NE is capable of automated terrainfollowing at low and very low altitudes (10 to 25 m), employing its radar and electro-optical surveillance and sighting systems. Excellent power-toweight ratio allows for operations in alpine terrain, at high ambient temperatures.

The Mi-28NE is capable of performing combat manoeuvres with vertical overload of up to 2.6 g, sideways and tailfirst flights at a speed of up to 100km/h, and helicopter aerobatics.

EQUIPMENT: The integrated avionics suite includes a highprecision navigation system (comprising the inertial, satellite, and geophysical orientation systems); a stabilised sighting system with optical/IR/TV channels featuring video/radar image quality improvement and synthesis subsystems; a thermal imaging system with a laser rangefinder; a mast-mounted radar; helmetmounted target designation and display systems; an onboard computer; an electronic display system with MFDs; an automated data transfer system; a self-defence system; an automated control system; and a flight mission data processing system.

The Mi-28NE is the world’s best helicopter in terms of battlefield survivability. Its automated control system restores proper engine operation after firing-induced stalls, thus extending the unguided weapons delivery range to cover the entire combat altitude and airspeed envelope.

ARMAMENT: The Mi-28NE armament includes up to 16 Ataka-V ATGMs, up to eight Igla missiles, up to 80 S-8 rockets in B8V20-A pods, up to 20 S-13 rockets in B13L1 pods, and up to four KMGU-2 smallsize cargo containers. The helicopter carries a built-in NPPU-28N swivelling gun mount with one 30mm 2A42 cannon (250-round ammunition load), and UPK-23-250 gun pods.

 

[nomi007]

Apache is the best.

 

[lilaspr]

Apache AH-64D Block III vs Mi-28NE

My choice is Mi-28NE , It can do all that Apache can do at the price of 12 million against Apache's 18 million USD !

Mi-28NE is good but ..... Apache AH-64D will be the best choice.

 

[Yeti]

AH-64D Block III is the best choice for the Indian army

---------- Post added at 09:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 AM ----------

Overall, Block III Apache is a combination of 25 technologies aimed at enhancing crew effectiveness in battle while reducing operations and support costs. Those technologies insertion will provide Network-Centric warfare capabilities in the multi-role combat helicopter for the Army's future force. To enable battlespace dominance, the program will incorporate open systems architecture, wideband network communications, extended range sensing, level IV unmanned aerial vehicle control, extended range fire control radar, extended range missiles, and data fusion to merge off- and on-board sensor imagery.

 

[Qasibr]

If you go for the Apache, you get better performance. But that is going to cost more(even Saudia Arabia only buys them in small batches, despite it's $80 billion overall deal), and secondly, US equipment requires constant upkeep, maintainance, and spare parts which can be a high recurring cost. Even the Americans had to obtain Russian-origin helis to operate in Afghanistan, because US technology didn't work that well in hot/dusty environments.

Mi-28 costs less, but it's performance is no-where near the AH-64. It will *work* in India's hot/dusty environment, though spares won't cost as much, Russia just loves to twist it's customer's arm around by creating artificial supply shortages with spares. India recently had to resort to initiating a global tender, to see which other countries could manufacture and supply spares for it's Russian-origin aircraft, because the Russian strategy tends to entail re-negotiating contracts after the customer is locked in, and squeezing more $$$ out of them.

Additional European-origin options might be better, but Pakistan has also been looking at them since the mid-2000s. The Turks have a pretty high-tech Agusta-Westland A-129 upgrade that India might like to take a look at. We're likely to buy some too(Turkey lists Pakistan as one of the target countries likely to use the heli), and it'd be interesting to see if they'd go for fielding the same helis across the border. Other European options may offer better performance(than the Russians), minus the constant maintainance, upkeep, and meddling(of the US).

 

[Yeti]

If you go for the Apache, you get better performance. But that is going to cost more(even Saudia Arabia only buys them in small batches, despite it's $80 billion overall deal), and secondly, US equipment requires constant upkeep, maintainance, and spare parts which can be a high recurring cost. Even the Americans had to obtain Russian-origin helis to operate in Afghanistan, because US technology didn't work that well in hot/dusty environments.

Mi-28 costs less, but it's performance is no-where near the AH-64. It will *work* in India's hot/dusty environment, though spares won't cost as much, Russia just loves to twist it's customer's arm around by creating artificial supply shortages with spares. India recently had to resort to initiating a global tender, to see which other countries could manufacture and supply spares for it's Russian-origin aircraft, because the Russian strategy tends to entail re-negotiating contracts after the customer is locked in, and squeezing more $$$ out of them.

Additional European-origin options might be better, but Pakistan has also been looking at them since the mid-2000s. The Turks have a pretty high-tech Agusta-Westland A-129 upgrade that India might like to take a look at. We're likely to buy some too(Turkey lists Pakistan as one of the target countries likely to use the heli), and it'd be interesting to see if they'd go for fielding the same helis across the border. Other European options may offer better performance(than the Russians), minus the constant maintainance, upkeep, and meddling(of the US).

Thats not true the Apaches have been proven in Afghanistan and in the deserts of New Mexico


UK Forces in Afghanistan employ the following Rotary Wing Aircraft:

Apache Longbow WAH64D attack helicopter [Picture: Graeme Main, Crown Copyright/MOD 2006]

Apache

The fearsome Apache AH-MK1 attack helicopter is the most sophisticated weapon system currently in service with the British Army.

It is operated by members of the Army Air Corps.

In Afghanistan, the Apache helicopter has three principle roles: escort for other aircraft types, primarily the RAF's Chinooks, which move troops and equipment around theatre; deliberate and pre-planned operations; and reactive assistance to troops coming under fire.

The Apache can operate in all weathers, day or night, and detect, classify and prioritise up to 256 potential targets in a matter of seconds.

It carries a mix of weapons including rockets, Hellfire missiles and a 30mm chain gun that can be slaved to the gunner's helmet-mounted display.


Ministry of Defence | Fact Sheets | Operations in Afghanistan: Rotary Wing Aircraft

 

[Yeti]

 

[Qasibr]

There's a fundamental difference in the way the US manufactures it's military hardware. The end-products can perform better, but they are maintainance-heavy.

If you look at the AH-64, you should research into Britain's helicopter procurement programme of the 1990s. They were all set for the AH-64, but after watching it's dismal performance in the first Gulf war, they issued a wider tender. In the end, they settled for building a custom variant of AH-64 that was meant to minimize some of the problems experienced in the Gulf war. There were many friendly-fire incidents where AH-64's IFF system(Identify Friend/Foe) malfunctioned and targetted friendlies during that war, as well as frequent breakdowns.

And the US was supposed to have learnt lessons from there, they spent billions "rectifying" the problems. But yet again significant problems surfaced during the Kosovo war a decade later, and the US had to refrain from using the heli in combat situations. Even their own media was forced to talk about Apache's failure, even though they did try to belittle it:

Instead, the vaunted helicopters came to symbolize everything wrong with the Army as it enters the 21st century: its inability to move quickly; its resistance to change; its obsession with casualties; its post-Cold War identity crisis

Army's Apache Helicopter Rendered Impotent in Kosovo

So the point I'm making is, AH-64 is definitely a deadly machine, and going for it may be a good decision. But one should go for a solid maintainance deal with the Americans, something that enables you to be free from US meddling, perhaps something that lets you manufacture some spares domestically if they'll allow that. If you buy high-tech stuff from the US, they tend to send alot of personel along to ensure you don't try to figure out how the stuff works, the Turks even discovered espionage equipment embedded after an F-16 crashed, in one of the sealed avionics components they aren't allowed to look into without voiding contracts.

 

[SQ8]

The Mi-28 may be a larger machine, but for all its worth.. its unproven. A test here and there in Chechnya does not equal a End user certificate.

The Ah-64 is used by multiple nations.. and effectively. Considering it is being used in battle conditions it was not designed for.
I wonder though.. as to why the Indians arent looking into the Eurocopter... or perhaps the Roolivak.. although if anything.. the Roolivak's unbelievable 4 hour combat endurance suits Pakistan best.

 

[EastWest]

Ah-64 and Mi-26 for India.!!

 

[SpArK]

The weapons package of Apache is better.

AIM-92 stinger, Hellfire and Hydra gives a definite edge.

 

[Tshering22]

I'd go for the Night Hunter ANYDAY! It looks mean, is armed to the boot and carries the deadly legacy of the Krokodil with it.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

I want to see a Apache lead couple of LCHs.

Pack leader...

 

[ratnas]

This is good.

awesome pic

 

[Tshering22]

awesome pic

Pics look good. We want more substance. Apache is good fighting in American doctrine because they used heavy jets to soften enemy targets before sending dozens of limited armed Apaches. The Night Hunter is heavier, rugged and carried helluva lot more weapons as we'd need in our hostile terrains in borders.

Simply put, Apache is excellent no doubt; but not viable for our conditions since we're already short on fighter jets unlike USA who uses them in large volumes AND in a unified manner unlike our fragmented armed forces branches. So we need Mi-28 NH. Simple as that.

Or even the Ka-50 Black Shark would be awesome. It is the Su-37 of gunships.