Another ‘blasphemy’ case

[Ahmad]

Afghanistan IS a democracy now my dear... has been for the past so many years... read any newspaper in the west... they all call it a democracy... which is obviously something we are not happy with... Who wants a Karzai... lol

alaka, when you debate with people in serious manner then stopping loling.

What we see in Afghanistan is not democracy, but trying to adjust ourselves in this type of systme and get used to it. compare to what we had before, despite all the problems, it is the best we have got forever, at least we went to polling station and wanted to put our ballots to somebody we trust. and if our beloved taliban had allowed the process in the areas of their influence, things would have been better.

and Democracy HAS failed in europe and america... Ask any one of the millions who are jobless despite having tremendous potential for work...

it hasnt failed, despite all the economic problems people are happy with their lives and their system, things will only get better within couple of years, not end of the world.

Do you get out in Cardiff much? Try to volunteer for a homeless organization for a change... or ask the man selling the big issue around Cardiff Castle area, what he thinks of Democracy...

I am deeply involved in this issue of housing and homelessness, i have been accommodation officer for the last 7 years and well aware of problems. when we say homelessness it doesnt mean everybody is sleeping rough, if you dont have job or accommodation, go to the gov and they provide you everything until you get a job.

How do you gauge success and failure?

to have sheltor, food, all the necesities of life, happy with your family, having peace, having a working system, being free with responsibility, nobody bothers or haras you and if you have anything more than that will be a privillage.

 

[GentlemanObserver]

You really are something Mr Paladin... At first you yourself talk numbers... when it is shown to you that the majority does not agree with your ideas, you resort to Statistics are like a Bikini...

admit it... you have been defeated in your own game... and now you are trying to sew a Shalwar for yourself

Have nothing else to say to you dear... Be happy...

Im no Mr...

majority does not agree with your ideas

From 1 poll...

admit it... you have been defeated in your own game

What game would that be, common-sense? Of course you know what they say about common-sense? It ain't common.

and now you are trying to sew a Shalwar for yourself

Cheap... See all you religious types always focus on the "Shalwar" that is what happens when you repress your emotions behind the barrier of religion.

Stop being a coward and accept it, there is more to this world then "your" opinion.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

reading page 24 and before, i read this about sharia, not khilafat:

Most respondents express strong support for expanding the role of Islam in their societies, a view that is consistent with the goals of al Qaeda. Large majorities in most countries—an average of 71 percent (39% strongly)—agree with the goal of requiring “strict application of Shari’a law in every Islamic country.” Pakistanis were the most enthusiastic with 79 percent agreeing. About three in four Moroccans (76%) and Egyptians (74%) also agreed. Indonesians showed the lowest support: 53 % and 40% disagreed.

and i also saw this one:

In all four countries polled, strong majorities (67% overall) said they considered “a democratic political
s about a democratic political system…Would you say it is a very good, fairly good
governing their country. Support for democracy was highest in Egypt, where an overwhelming 82 percent saw it as good and a 52 percent majority called it “very good.” In Indonesia, democracy was endorsed by 65 percent, though with less intensity (only 14 percent said very
g
called democracy a good way of governing their country (28% very good). In Pakistan, 61 percent called democracy a good way to govern (20% very good).

Sorry... its page 15, 21 and 22...

Yes... Democracy as representative... when they talk of democracy they talk election and representation... because this is what they understand of Islam, that Islam allows elections of leaders...

Otherwise you ll have zero support for Shariah... and as you can see... there is a huge support of that

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Im no Mr...



From 1 poll...



What game would that be, common-sense? Of course you know what they say about common-sense? It ain't common.


Cheap... See all you religious types always focus on the "Shalwar" that is what happens when you repress your emotions behind the barrier of religion.

Stop being a coward and accept it, there is more to this world then "your" opinion.

Well be my guest and bring 1 poll in your favor... if you have the guts... Eh

Bachay... maan lay... buri maar kha gya hay tu... hahaha

 

[DaRk WaVe]

and you have got your mind poisoned with excess of whatever it is thats in your head... bhoos?

personal attack

Calling others as delusional... Do you go around speaking to people in this tone in real life... what a joker...

Delusional is not a abuse, escaping from reality & talking about something which is impractical is certainly delusional.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

alaka, when you debate with people in serious manner then stopping loling.

What we see in Afghanistan is not democracy, but trying to adjust ourselves in this type of systme and get used to it. compare to what we had before, despite all the problems, it is the best we have got forever, at least we went to polling station and wanted to put our ballots to somebody we trust. and if our beloved taliban had allowed the process in the areas of their influence, things would have been better.



it hasnt failed, despite all the economic problems people are happy with their lives and their system, things will only get better within couple of years, not end of the world.



I am deeply involved in this issue of housing and homelessness, i have been accommodation officer for the last 7 years and well aware of problems. when we say homelessness it doesnt mean everybody is sleeping rough, if you dont have job or accommodation, go to the gov and they provide you everything until you get a job.



to have sheltor, food, all the necesities of life, happy with your family, having peace, having a working system, being free with responsibility, nobody bothers or haras you and if you have anything more than that will be a privillage.

You are doing my point huge favor here dude... I am being serious... If the system is not working for a certain minority then in my (and your) opinion it is not delivering... You understand absolutely nothing of economics to state that everything will be hunky dory in a couple of years time... fine... have it your way... If you are serious as you claim to be... you could look up at what the experts on economics are saying about the current situation...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

personal attack



Delusional is not a abuse, escaping from reality & talking about something which is impractical is certainly delusional.

By that definition you are most certainly delusional then...

Since the majority of people want Islam... You seem to think that because your mind tells you that Islam is impractical then this must be the case... You need to get out and meet some people... seriously

 

[GentlemanObserver]

Well be my guest and bring 1 poll in your favor... if you have the guts... Eh

Bachay... maan lay... buri maar kha gya hay tu... hahaha

1. I don't have to provide figures to prove my point. Just look at the number of people "ranting" about calipahte in this thread... Oh wait it's just one... You

2. Guts? Seriously... How old are you...?

3.

Bachay...

I am not your Bachay... I actually might be quite senior to you and secondly i am not Bachay, if your going to be a douche at least adress me properly

maan lay... buri maar kha gya hay tu

How so... The only one here who has been defeated through logic is you and you WET DREAM.

Keep trying, you are your kind are fickle and despite your tempestuous foaming and frothing, you are washed away like sand on the beach by the coming tide...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

1) They are as much of muslims as we are. Havent we heard it before calling them kuffar? and yes thats what pushed them to fight against us, if you are a muslim you would stand by us else if you ask for rights you arent a muslim.

2) Who is basing Islam on their books. But yes history is going to be based on both the accounts and not one.





Bingo, you just said the magic word, GEOGRAPHICAL attachment. Thats what defines nationhood, had baluchistan been located thousands of miles away, islam would not have been enough to keep tem with us.


heard enough of that, Islam is a religion just like judaism and christianity. As a matter of fact we muslims claim that its a continuation of those religions and the followers of those religions were also muslims as were Musa and Isa. So just like them Islam is also a religion.



Aint that funny? for everything bad blame somebody else. Whether its from your past or your future.

History is also a judge to ehat worked and what did not and the history of even khilafat-i-Rashida tells us something. Open another thread and we can discuss why Hazrat Usman was not allowed to be burried in a muslim cemetery and how his body lay in his house for three days. Or we could also discuss other details but this thread is about is caliphate imminent and necessary? You have not provided any sources making it mandatory.


Ask those who have lost loved ones cause of "FIRQA-warana fasadat". Or those who are killed every muharram and the list goes on and on.




are all muslims practicing? Yahya khan was also a muslim ;-)

There is a difference between a muslim country and an Islamic state.


Why would I be?



Well I alongwith many disagree unless you prove otherwise, which you haven't so far.

I can certainly prove otherwise... I have to be mindful that the discussion goes in all sorts of different directions... but there is a certain condition attached to my explaining the institution of the Caliphate and its basis in islam to you...

You ll salute me and accept me as your personal guru... do you accept?

 

[GentlemanObserver]

personal attack



Delusional is not a abuse, escaping from reality & talking about something which is impractical is certainly delusional.

Your talking to a wall with that guy... He is doped up on the stuff...

Just like this:

 

[Ahmad]

You are doing my point huge favor here dude... I am being serious... If the system is not working for a certain minority then in my (and your) opinion it is not delivering... You understand absolutely nothing of economics to state that everything will be hunky dory in a couple of years time... fine... have it your way... If you are serious as you claim to be... you could look up at what the experts on economics are saying about the current situation...

which minority you mean? the jobless ones? hope you havent forgotten that people are getting lazy and dont do work, some people are even busy doing work in black market while receiving benefit from the gov. i never said i am an economist, but if you think the western model of economics in the west have failed then back it up, please dont post somebody's opinion as that doest count.

 

[Parashuram1]

Mr Para... Who has been in power and government in Afghanistan for the last 8 to 9 years? Taliban?

Yeah... lets keep blaming them anyway... helps everyone stay in line...

Power through the rule of gun is not power but tyranny. If you refuse to give democracy a chance in Afghanistan, how will it show whether it is a force of good or evil? Whether American sponsored or not, when has democracy destroyed a country the way Taliban's self-righteous form of ruling has to Afghanistan?

Do you see South Korea, Japan, Singapore etc in the same light as that of Afghanistan? Certainly you cannot say yes to this!

Taliban's handiwork is quite visible to rest of the world. And I am amused that you of all the people living here in West, a free society, is so vehemently supportive of a radical and barbaric agency as Taliban.

As amusing as it may seem, most proponents of Taliban on this forum are those who live in free democratic societies, enjoy its liberties and yell about how wonderful Taliban is, using democratic freedoms of speech and expression to mention this opinion of theirs.

I ask you this:

Would you be willing to live under Taliban regime where there is no computers, internet, education, healthcare, benefits, social security, material entertainment, freedoms to express and speak or virtually breathe without the regime's whim at all?

I await your reply to my question.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

1. I don't have to provide figures to prove my point. Just look at the number of people "ranting" about calipahte in this thread... Oh wait it's just one... You

2. Guts? Seriously... How old are you...?

3.
I am not your Bachay... I actually might be quite senior to you and secondly i am not Bachay, if your going to be a douche at least adress me properly


How so... The only one here who has been defeated through logic is you and you WET DREAM.

Keep trying, you are your kind are fickle and despite your tempestuous foaming and frothing, you are washed away like sand on the beach by the coming tide...

So this thread is representative of the Muslim world... interesting observation... You should have gone to specsavors... lol

I think part of the reason why people who support Islam/Caliphate etc dont engage in a forum such as this is because you get all these whining kids talking bollocks here (prime example being yourself)... You certainly may be a lot older than me but your mental age is that of a child... 12 maybe 13 years old...

 

[Ahmad]

You are doing my point huge favor here dude... I am being serious... If the system is not working for a certain minority then in my (and your) opinion it is not delivering... You understand absolutely nothing of economics to state that everything will be hunky dory in a couple of years time... fine... have it your way... If you are serious as you claim to be... you could look up at what the experts on economics are saying about the current situation...

which minority you mean? the jobless ones? hope you havent forgotten that people are getting lazy and dont do work, some people are even busy doing work in black market while receiving benefit from the gov. i never said i am an economist, but if you think the western model of economics in the west have failed then back it up, please dont post somebody's opinion as that doest count.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

which minority you mean? the jobless ones? hope you havent forgotten that people are getting lazy and dont do work, some people are even busy doing work in black market while receiving benefit from the gov. i never said i am an economist, but if you think the western model of economics in the west have failed then back it up, please dont post somebody's opinion as that doest count.

I can back it up Ahmad... You should know by now that I dont discuss without evidence...

Firstly however, will you accept that Unity between Muslims as endorsed by the Caliphate is an idea that has widespread appeal in the Muslim world... 71 percent in that poll (there are other polls also btw)... Do you accept that you were wrong in your assertion that Pakistanis dont desire Muslim Unity as embodied by the idea of merger of Muslim lands into one state?

It is important because I only work with goals in mind... If I see that you are willing to accept your misconceptions and correct your ideas, only then will I work with you... otherwise might just take a look at Paladin's nice photograph that he has posted for all of us to see on this thread... (I dont know what the relevance of that on this thread is but he is certainly drooling from the mouth)... and we can flame each other some other time also...