Anna Hazare released from jail after India-wide protests, begins fasting

[toxic_pus]

You mean, you are against the lokpal being independent from government? Or, do you have any other recommendation?

Nothing, I will repeat, NOTHING, can be independent of Parliament. Judiciary is partially independent in the sense that any law passed by the Parliament can be examined by Judiciary for its adherence to the Constitution.

Our Constitution [...] places the supremacy at the hands of the Legislature as much as that is possible within the bounds of a written Constitution. But [...] the balance between Parliamentary Sovereignty and Judicial Review was seriously disturbed, and a drift towards the former was made, by the Constitution (42nd Amendment) Act, 1976, by inserting some new provisions, e.g. Arts 31D, 32A, 131A etc.

Introduction to the Constitution of India, by D.D.Basu, pg-40​

So, in order to meet Anna's demands Constitution would require serious rewriting, whereby an independent body has to be made supreme, well above the Legislature (Parliament). That would be a first in the whole world.

---------- Post added at 12:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 AM ----------

Or it could be that WSJ is trying to mislead people with false information.

Or it could be that Anna's team is trying to do the same.

---------- Post added at 12:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 AM ----------

Government is against live telecast or releasing video/audio of the drafting committe meetings. Why the government is trying hide everything from the people? What are they trying to hide?

That is the correct thing to do. What is important is the content of the draft (along with an annexure explaining the important sections). How it was drafted is irrelevant.

 

[metro]

Govt's version of Lokpal Bill.

http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/archive/00663/Lokpal_Bill_-_Gover_663687a.pdf

Jan Lokpal Bill-

http://www.box.net/shared/tyqqc9d0rl8xgglqxpmj

 

[Paan Singh]

cant wait till tomorrow morning.......i want millions on road tomorrow...

 

[suryakiran]

Nothing, I will repeat, NOTHING, can be independent of Parliament. Judiciary is partially independent in the sense that any law passed by the Parliament can be examined by Judiciary for its adherence to the Constitution.

Our Constitution [...] places the supremacy at the hands of the Legislature as much as that is possible within the bounds of a written Constitution. But [...] the balance between Parliamentary Sovereignty and Judicial Review was seriously disturbed, and a drift towards the former was made, by the Constitution (42nd Amendment) Act, 1976, by inserting some new provisions, e.g. Arts 31D, 32A, 131A etc.

Introduction to the Constitution of India, by D.D.Basu, pg-40​

So, in order to meet Anna's demands Constitution would require serious rewriting, whereby an independent body has to be made supreme, well above the Legislature (Parliament). That would be a first in the whole world.

---------- Post added at 12:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 AM ----------


Or it could be that Anna's team is trying to do the same.

---------- Post added at 12:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 AM ----------


That is the correct thing to do. What is important is the content of the draft (along with an annexure explaining the important sections). How it was drafted is irrelevant.

My friend, keeping it independent of government is not keeping above the legislature.

 

[toxic_pus]

Govt's version of Lokpal Bill.

http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/archive/00663/Lokpal_Bill_-_Gover_663687a.pdf

Can't download. Is it the June 21st one? If it is, throw it in trash.

Jan Lokpal Bill-

Jan_Lokpal_Bill_ver_2.3.pdf - File Shared from Box.net

Yes, the nth version of it.

 

[toxic_pus]

My friend, Parliment is not the ligislature. And, keeping it independent of government is not keeping above the legislature.

Since you probably belong to the generation that derives information from Wiki, here is a wiki source:

Parliament of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (read the very first line)

What Anna is proposing, is tantamount to a super-legislative body.

 

[jbond197]

Guys, though I support Anna hazare's movement against corruption but i have a question for like minded people. We are talking about Lokpal and we right now are thinking that he will be some "Raja Harish Chandra" but what if he turns corrupt. What will be the consequences and how lokpal bill addresses any such eventuality? I am not much aware of it hence the question. please answer if you know better..

 

[suryakiran]

Since you probably belong to the generation that derives information from Wiki, here is a wiki source:

Parliament of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (read the very first line)

What Anna is proposing, is tantamount to a super-legislative body.

Thanks for the info. I have edited my previous post.

 

[Swati Shukla]

Another point, All these law, agencies are controlled by government which is inturn controlled by these corrupt politicians. The Lokpal will be independent from government and out of the influence of politicians in power, so that iw can function better.

For ex, CBI is a powerful agency with lot of resource which can solve even very diffifult cases. But, it is functioning under government which can be severely influenced by politicians. Even if there is ample evidence against someone who is corrupt, CBI must get permission from the corresponding minister to file FIR against a goverment official or any politician. Do you think a minister will allow CBI to file an FIR against somebody in his department so easily?

in jan lokpal cbi's anti corruption wing will come under lokpal and will be independent of govt.

It will prove to be a major step in the fight against corruption cause no one will be safe after thatt..

 

[IndoCarib]

Guys, though I support Anna hazare's movement against corruption but i have a question for like minded people. We are talking about Lokpal and we right now are thinking that he will be some "Raja Harish Chandra" but what if he turns corrupt. What will be the consequences and how lokpal bill addresses any such eventuality? I am not much aware of it hence the question. please answer if you know better..

A look at the salient features of Jan Lokpal Bill:

1. An institution called LOKPAL at the centre and LOKAYUKTA in each state will be set up

2. Like Supreme Court and Election Commission, they will be completely independent of the governments. No minister or bureaucrat will be able to influence their investigations.

3. Cases against corrupt people will not linger on for years anymore: Investigations in any case will have to be completed in one year. Trial should be completed in next one year so that the corrupt politician, officer or judge is sent to jail within two years.

4. The loss that a corrupt person caused to the government will be recovered at the time of conviction.

5. How will it help a common citizen: If any work of any citizen is not done in prescribed time in any government office, Lokpal will impose financial penalty on guilty officers, which will be given as compensation to the complainant.

6. So, you could approach Lokpal if your ration card or passport or voter card is not being made or if police is not registering your case or any other work is not being done in prescribed time. Lokpal will have to get it done in a month's time. You could also report any case of corruption to Lokpal like ration being siphoned off, poor quality roads been constructed or panchayat funds being siphoned off. Lokpal will have to complete its investigations in a year, trial will be over in next one year and the guilty will go to jail within two years.

7. But won't the government appoint corrupt and weak people as Lokpal members? That won't be possible because its members will be selected by judges, citizens and constitutional authorities and not by politicians, through a completely transparent and participatory process.

8. What if some officer in Lokpal becomes corrupt? The entire functioning of Lokpal/ Lokayukta will be completely transparent. Any complaint against any officer of Lokpal shall be investigated and the officer dismissed within two months.

9. What will happen to existing anti-corruption agencies? CVC, departmental vigilance and anti-corruption branch of CBI will be merged into Lokpal. Lokpal will have complete powers and machinery to independently investigate and prosecute any officer, judge or politician.

10. It will be the duty of the Lokpal to provide protection to those who are being victimized for raising their voice against corruption.



Read more at: What is the Jan Lokpal Bill, why it's important

 

[hunter_hunted]

Ahh my dear thats what Capitalism is all about, and will keep happening until it falls on its own feet

 

[fd24]

Ahh my dear thats what Capitalism is all about, and will keep happening until it falls on its own feet

Capitalism has failed. what they have now is not a recession it is systemiuc failure. In capatilism they should not be rescuing banks they should let them go to the wall that why they are desparate at the moment.

 

[Swati Shukla]

Again, it is not about just PM. According to government Lokpal bill, state and central ministers, MLA's, MP's, local body office bearers (including panchayath/municipality/corporation councilors), B, C and D grade state and central government officials, Judges, highways department, education department, environment department, public works department, judiciary..(the list is very big my friend) are all excluded from the jurisdiction of Lokpal.

So, who else is included in the Lokpal bill? Can you tell me somebody who is not falling under the above mentioned categories?

quite true. govt. wants to control cbi and use it as its puppet. govt. representatives are in majority in lokpal selection panel so lokpal will be govt.s loyalist. lacks of govt. employes are out of the scope of this bill so this bill won't affect common people's life. They will still have to suffer.

This bill is corruption friendly. The corrupt person will get three chances to state his defence before any action can b initiated against him. So, he will get enough time to desroy the evidences.

Govt. will pay the charges for the lawyer of the corrupt official but the one who does complain will have to pay from his pocket.
if proven guilty(which is highly unlikely as he would have destroyed the evidnces till then) the former will get a jail for min. 6months, but if proven wrong(very likely) the latter will get minimum punishment of 2 years!!!

CAN ANY POOR MAN DARE TO RAISE HIS VOICE AGAINST CORRUPTION UNDER THIS SARKARI JOKEPAL BILL?


ACTUALLY THIS CORRUPT GOVT. HAS DESIGNED THIS BILL TO BE SUCH THAT IT WILL ONLY ENCOURAGE THE CORRUPT TO INDULGE IN MORE AND MORE CORRUPTION.


SHAME ON YOU CONgress..

Down with corruption, India wants Jan Lokpal Bill.

 

[suryakiran]

in jan lokpal cbi's anti corruption wing will come under lokpal and will be independent of govt.

It will prove to be a major step in the fight against corruption cause no one will be safe after thatt..

Exactly. And presently, even if there are enough evidance for corruption charges against any judge, CBI or any government agency must obtain permission from Chief Justice of India to file an FIR aginst the judge. And in the whole 60 years of our history, permission had been granted only two times that too because of the media exposure againse those judges. Judges are also human and they are not above law. And we cannot say all the judges in this country are 100% clean. Any corruption in the judiciary must be investigated too.

Why are we keeping the judges above law? Why shouldn't they also be exposed to this anti-corruption body?

 

[Paan Singh]

quite true. govt. wants to control cbi and use it as its puppet. govt. representatives are in majority in lokpal selection panel so lokpal will be govt.s loyalist. lacks of govt. employes are out of the scope of this bill so this bill won't affect common people's life. They will still have to suffer.

This bill is corruption friendly. The corrupt person will get three chances to state his defence before any action can b initiated against him. So, he will get enough time to desroy the evidences.

Govt. will pay the charges for the lawyer of the corrupt official but the one who does complain will have to pay from his pocket.
if proven guilty(which is highly unlikely as he would have destroyed the evidnces till then) the former will get a jail for min. 6months, but if proven wrong(very likely) the latter will get minimum punishment of 2 years!!!

CAN ANY POOR MAN DARE TO RAISE HIS VOICE AGAINST CORRUPTION UNDER THIS SARKARI JOKEPAL BILL?


ACTUALLY THIS CORRUPT GOVT. HAS DESIGNED THIS BILL TO BE SUCH THAT IT WILL ONLY ENCOURAGE THE CORRUPT TO INDULGE IN MORE AND MORE CORRUPTION.


SHAME ON YOU CONgress..

Down with corruption, India wants Jan Lokpal Bill.

shukla ji..aa gaye ho...

ab to congress gayi...

jai hind