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Anna Hazare released from jail after India-wide protests, begins fasting

Jan Lokapl Bill


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Yesterday in an interview i saw bhushan saying that the lokpal is accountable to the supreme court.Any person can approach the supreme court to get a member of lokpal removed if he found guilty.so lokpal cant be a dictator like thing.personaly i dont think the lokpal will end corruption.when it comes to making a law we are good but implementing it is our weaker side .......

Cant disagree with this..But the younger generation has given me some hope..Lets make the good laws and let see if they have some impact. Bad implementation should be an excuse for not making a strong law..
 
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Holy ****!!! The gov;t version is not just watered down it SUCKS> What is the reason for not granting whistle blower protection. The states made a big stink about this as well under Bush. Any ideas why?

Yes buddy its basically trying to put up an entity against corruption with no powers whatsoever. I am trying to verify this if it is true or not but if the case against a corrupt official is not proved the person who put up the case will go to jail for 2 years for defamation. Now if a strong Lokpal is not put up it means people who used to come up for good of others will be afraid to do so!!!! Now we know the power of a corrupt official in India for sure don't we??
 
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Your point about blackmailing is not entirely true in this case. Representing popular opinion is not blackmail and if it is Mahatma Gandhi was the world's biggest blackmailer. But I have a simple question. How often has the government buckled to a fast unto death? Remember Ms. Irom Sharmila Chanu who has been on 'fast-unto-death' for the past nine years demanding withdrawal of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act 1958 from Manipur??? She is being force fed through a tube by the govt!!! What stopped the government fromdoing the same to Anna?? The fact that it is undeniably on the wrong side this time around. It cannot talk it's way out of this. The people have spoken.

Dont you see a double standard.can you say irom sharmilla is fighting for a cause less impotant than what anna fighting for?? why irom sharmilla's fast unto death dont making much impact like anna's.Is that the failure of people of india to back her .If whe support her like whe support anna dont you think we can bring this government to its knees........
 
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Well my friend the reason i called you explanation ridiculous was for the same reason i talked of above, the judiciary has already become corrupt along with other institutions. However the serious thing here is at last everybody have to come to the court only for justice and if the judiciary is not under the ambit of Lokpal then these judges will find ways to beat it easily. It can be done even under Lokpal also i agree as man is known for his innovation, but the chances would be slim. May be after 2 to 3 decades wwhen the system is cleansed of bad blood may be then the bill could be revised. But at present it is necessary, Santhosh Hegde might be trying trade points so that atleast some of theirs could be included or may be he as a lawyer feels for others :P

You are the one being silly now. The Lokpal is just a name given to an institution; it has no magical powers that only it can wield. There is going to be a separate institution to deal with the Judges. How on earth does it make any difference if they come under a separate entity & not under Lokpal ? Btw, do you know how are going to be selected as Lokpals? Judges, that's who! (the Anna group wants it to be more open to others but unlikely to happen)
 
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Your point about blackmailing is not entirely true in this case. Representing popular opinion is not blackmail and if it is Mahatma Gandhi was the world's biggest blackmailer. But I have a simple question. How often has the government buckled to a fast unto death? Remember Ms. Irom Sharmila Chanu who has been on 'fast-unto-death' for the past nine years demanding withdrawal of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act 1958 from Manipur??? She is being force fed through a tube by the govt!!! What stopped the government fromdoing the same to Anna?? The fact that it is undeniably on the wrong side this time around. It cannot talk it's way out of this. The people have spoken.

Common misconception. Gandhi never fasted against the British but once. It was almost always directed at his followers to stop them from doing something he didn't approve of.

Have no doubt, if Anna Hazare continues his fast - he will be force fed. No government will do otherwise.
 
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Dont you see a double standard.can you say irom sharmilla is fighting for a cause less impotant than what anna fighting for?? why irom sharmilla's fast unto death dont making much impact like anna's.Is that the failure of people of india to back her .If whe support her like whe support anna dont you think we can bring this government to its knees........

Maybe because her agitation does have so much merit or it does not affect all the Indians cutting across race,color,creed,religion as corruption afflicts us.
 
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The link is here "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Lokpal_Bill" and luckky u can see below .



The Jan Lokpal Bill [13]
Government's Lokpal Bill [14]

Prime Minister
Can be investigated with permission of seven member Lokpal bench.[11]
PM cannot be investigate by Lokpal.[15]
i agree with govt stand ,PMO should be immune to any investigation , as it affect it's fuctioning

Judiciary
Can be investigated, though high level members may be investigated only with permission of a seven member Lokpal bench.[11]
Judiciary is exempt and will be covered by a separate "judicial accountability bill".[12]
i agree with govt stand that Judiciary should remain free ..

MPs
Can be investigated with permission of seven member Lokpal bench.[11]
Can be investigated, but their conduct within Pariliament, such as voting, cannot be investigated.[12]
i agree with govt stand ,every person has a right on his vote , why lolpal or anyone alse need to investigate on voting

Lower bureaucracy
All public servants would be included.[12]
Only Group A officers will be covered.[12]
i agree with govt stand , presently compaints against Lower officers can be filled at locla authorities , ...
it will be brudern on lokpak office to see every single compaint...


CBI
The CBI will be merged into the Lokpal.[12]
The CBI will remain a separate agency.[11]
i agree with govt stand ,every case need a investigating agency depends upon the level of indepth investigation required and there are different agencies for it CID , CBI , CVC etc

Removal of Lokpal members and Chair
Any person can bring a complaint to the Supreme Court, who can then recommend removal of any member to the President.[11]
Any "aggrieved party" can raise a complaint to the President, who will refer the matter to the CJI.[11]
i don't see any point of difference in both versions..

Removal of Lokpal staff and officers
Complaints against Lokpal staff will be handled by independent boards set-up in each state, composed of retired bureaucrats, judges, and civil society members.[11]
Lokpal will conduct inquiries into its own behavior.[11]
i disagree with both ,how to ensure that these retired bureaucrats, judges, and civil society members are not corrupte and how a person can inquiries into its own behavior , in my view matter should be reffer to concer investigating agency

Lokayukta
Lokakyukta and other local/state anti-corruption agency would remain in place.[12]
All state anti-corruption agencies would be closed and responsibilities taken over by centralized Lokpal.[12]
i agree with an lokpal , it will be a burden for one lokpal to see the cases spead across country in every states , also it's better to diversify the power then to centerlize it


Whistleblower protection
Whistleblowers are protected law.[11]
No protection granted to whistleblowers.[11]
dis agree with both ,if whistleblowers seck protection , they can go to polic there are already law for it.


Punishment for corruption
Lokpal can either directly impose penalties, or refer the matter to the courts. Penalties can include removal from office, imprisonment, and recovery of assets from those who benefited from the corruption.[11]
Lokpal can only refer matters to the courts, not take any direct punitive actions. Penalties remain equivalent to those in current law.[11]
what jan lokpal saying that court systems should be abolished and only lokpal will decide on every case verdict, i agree with govt version that matter be reffered to the court

Investigatory powers
Lokpal can obtain wiretaps, issue rogatory letters, and recruit investigating officers. Cannot issue contempt orders.[11]
Lokpal can issue contempt orders, and has the ability to punish those in contempt. No authority to obtain wiretaps, issue rogatory letters, or recruit investigating officers.[11]
dis agree with both , lokpal shouldn't take the job of the court

False, frivolous and vexatious complaints
Lokpal can issue fines for frivolous complaints (including frivolous complaints against Lokpal itself), with a maximum penalty of 1 lakh.[11].
Court system will handle matters of frivolous complaints. Courts can issue fines of Rs25,000 to 2 lakh.[11]
disagree with both , if the investigating agencies can't find the proper evidence to validate a compaint , is it the foult of a compainie

Scope
All corruption can be investigated.[12]
Only high-level corruption can be investigated.[12]
agree with govt , lower level corruption should be handled at local level , different agencies should investigate different case base on the level of experties required

The first point outlines the popular stand and the second Governments
 
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It is not the protest which will cause the problem for India story, it is the cynical media that is hurting. The way they report that only can be classified as lie. They talk about Arab spring, Tahir Sqaure, police crack down, mulling of democratic voice etc.

But forget to remember that they can do their business with no string attached. Govt. even did not use any force to quell the strike but these TRP thirsty business houses are misinforming the world about the country.

They ruined the tourist inflow during CWG, there by hurting brand India. They showed all the wrong things, but never showed the positive of one of the best ever CWG. That is the media. if we have such media, then there is no need of an enemy country.
 
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MPs
Can be investigated with permission of seven member Lokpal bench.[11]
Can be investigated, but their conduct within Pariliament, such as voting, cannot be investigated.[12]
i agree with govt stand ,every person has a right on his vote , why lolpal or anyone alse need to investigate on voting

Nope..Voting in parliament is much more consequential than an individual voting in elections.
We have several instances in the past when bribes were used to purchase MPs..(Incidently everytime it was congress who was the culprit )..Lokpal must have the authority to investigate the conduct of MPs in Parlament..

Prime Minister
Can be investigated with permission of seven member Lokpal bench.[11]
PM cannot be investigate by Lokpal.[15]
i agree with govt stand ,PMO should be immune to any investigation , as it affect it's fuctioning

If PMO has nothing to hide then its functioning will not be affected ..But If PMO itself is engaged in damaging activities then who is there to investigate ..?

The CBI will be merged into the Lokpal.[12]
The CBI will remain a separate agency.[11]
i agree with govt stand ,every case need a investigating agency depends upon the level of indepth investigation required and there are different agencies for it CID , CBI , CVC etc

Govt. stance basically means that CBI will remain in its grip..while Janlokpal bill wants every investigative agency to be free from any govt. intervention..
Cant see the problem with JanLokpal..
 
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Better late then never.

Calculate the damage this corruption has done before counting how much we could have earned.

Liberal economy, good anti corruption laws will sustain our economy for long.

Ask India's enemies how they would like to see a rich India burning all its resources to highest spike and then shattering down because of corupt and poor governence unable to self sustain.
 
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It is not the protest which will cause the problem for India story, it is the cynical media that is hurting. The way they report that only can be classified as lie. They talk about Arab spring, Tahir Sqaure, police crack down, mulling of democratic voice etc.

But forget to remember that they can do their business with no string attached. Govt. even did not use any force to quell the strike but these TRP thirsty business houses are misinforming the world about the country.

They ruined the tourist inflow during CWG, there by hurting brand India. They showed all the wrong things, but never showed the positive of one of the best ever CWG. That is the media. if we have such media, then there is no need of an enemy country.

I am yet to see any media report or TV channels stating that there has been any police actions against Anna and the protesters.

Where did you hear/ see such reports?

Are you suggesting that we should condone corruption so that we project India Shining to the world?

What is so great about the Commonwealth Games? Not only have the Indian organisers and the Delhi Govt looted India, but also the foreigners who were hand in glove, including the foreign umbrella organisations of the Commonwealth Games.
 
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Nope..Voting in parliament is much more consequential than an individual voting in elections.
We have several instances in the past when bribes were used to purchase MPs..(Incidently everytime it was congress who was the culprit )..Lokpal must have the authority to investigate the conduct of MPs in Parlament..

Your position is surely the more popular one but it must be remembered that Parliament has its own set of privileges under the constitution which we must deal with great deal of circumspection. The procedure presently available to deal with member's actions within parliament, i.e. speaker & chairman dealing with the issue may not be working well but crossing limits set in the constitution is something that should be done with the utmost caution. I think a better procedure needs to be drawn up to deal with issues in parliament rather than just treat every institution with contempt.
 
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You are the one being silly now. The Lokpal is just a name given to an institution; it has no magical powers that only it can wield. There is going to be a separate institution to deal with the Judges. How on earth does it make any difference if they come under a separate entity & not under Lokpal ? Btw, do you know how are going to be selected as Lokpals? Judges, that's who! (the Anna group wants it to be more open to others but unlikely to happen)

May be i am being silly, but i think that if Judiciary is kept aside then it could be a problem in future. This is my stand and i have given my reason for this too, i accept that Lokpal isn't a omnipotent org, but it can definitely bring more accountability in its present proposed structure and any change can be dilution of it. I think Judiciary of all should be under Lokpal.
 
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If PMO has nothing to hide then its functioning will not be affected ..But If PMO itself is engaged in damaging activities then who is there to investigate ..?

PMO has everything to hide which should be remain hide in national intrest ..
 
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In short term yes but in long term no.

My view about this Lokbal bill movement: Govt's Lokpal bill is a joke. Jan lokpal bill proposed by Hazare is giving too much power to the Lokpal which is not good for our country specially democracy.

So i think we need modified Jan Lokpal bill with reduced power to Lokpal. PM, military and judiciary should be out of Lokpal. But I doubt this Lokpal bill will ever passed in the parliament. Here BJP, Congress or Lefts all are on the same side.



One good thing about the Jan Lokpal bill is wholesale patriotism. Tricolor flying all over India. :)
 
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