Ancient History not Appreciated by Pakistanis?

[Lavosh1]

@Joe Shearer


Well he meant the ancient Pakistan civilization or also known as gandhara civilization

Gandhara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gandhara Civilization | History Pak

heheh idiot ...it was name of Afghanistan area Gandhar(Kandahar) in ancient Hindu Kingdom During Mahabharata and Ancient India . but with foreign invasion Original people got pushed in main land of India and your half male ancestors destroyed Civilization from face of that part....

 

[T90TankGuy]

Why have you restarted a 6 yr old thread?

 

[farhan_9909]

Pakistani Has no ancient History....."Pakistan" Is product of foreign invasion and Barbaric activities did by them..

lol

So far i know indians are more ruled by foriegn than pakistan.could be that you guys are the real product of foreign invasions?

NOTE:by indian i typically here mean only Hindus excluding even the buddhist people

 

[474474]

i think Forum have "Hits..." problem Presence of Members is Reduced , Mod's are trying to attract Indians and Pakistanis with the one of the most popular funny subject "Ancient" Pakistan

look at forum how dull is going ...members are very low Active....

cool story

so your website isnt making anymoney you come ranting here?

 

[farhan_9909]

heheh idiot ...it was name of Afghanistan area Gandhar(Kandahar) in ancient Hindu Kingdom During Mahabharata and Ancient India . but with foreign invasion Original people got pushed in main land of India and your half male ancestors destroyed Civilization from face of that part....

Oh genius.

Than why the main cities of Pakistan civilization or in india known as gandhara civilization were peshawar and taxila?why it was majority in Present Day Pakistan

During partition people that migrated to pakistan are known as mahajir and they are not more than 5millions of total pakistna population today

So Pakistan even before partition.i mean majority of pakistani lived in the same region

which proves that pakistanis are not only the indigenous people of Gandhara civilization(pashtoons and baloch) while the indus civilization as well(Pakistani punjabi and Sindhi)

Both of these civilizations has no far far relation with india..

And this also prove that indians and pakistan were never same peopple.we from start were different race.we share nothing in common..

the language and few similarities clothers and cuisine are because after foriegn invaders we were merge together and living together for some odd 2000 years.

but again this doesnt mean pakistanis has origin in indians or related to indians

both are differnet races from the history point of view

 

[Lavosh1]

lol

So far i know indians are more ruled by foriegn than pakistan.could be that you guys are the real product of foreign invasions?

NOTE:by indian i typically here mean only Hindus excluding even the buddhist people

hehehe......Pakistan area of today have seen most invasion not Main Land India which pushed to migrate original people in main land India , what remained is only Barbaric Activities did by invaders.......

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer


Well he meant the ancient Pakistan civilization or also known as gandhara civilization

Gandhara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gandhara Civilization | History Pak

Hmm. Since you have taken the trouble to look it up, at least in Wikipedia, you deserve a fuller note of explanation.

This so-called ancient Pakistan civilisation was unfortunately no such thing. It was part of a set of kingdoms mentioned in Puranic, that is, post-Vedic times, in Sanskrit scripture. Now please get this on board: This is legend and myth, and NOT history. There is NO historical record of any place called Gandhara, except in Hindu scripture.

Of the two populist quasi-historical sites, neither is worth its weight in toilet paper as an historical record. The Wikipedia article talks briefly about Gandhara being a Mahajanapada, a conglomeration of kingdoms and oligarchies in immediately pre-Buddhist northern India, of which the really prominent members were the most eastern ones. It then makes a preposterous claim about the kingdom of Gandhara lasting from the 1st millennium BC (that is, 1000 BC) to the 11th century AD. This is totally false. There was no continuous kingdom of Gandhara during this period. After the Janapada, again a proto-historical entity, not an historical one, the next record we have is of the mention of Takshashila and Purushapura (tentatively but not definitely associated with modern-day Peshawar. This was as part of the Achaemenid Persian Empire. As part of his mopping up operations, after executing Bessus for the murder of Artaxerxes in Sogdiana, Alexander crossed the Hindu Kush and campaigned briefly in 326 BC in the Punjab and Multan, exiting after his plan to strike out across the Ganges-Yamuna doab was frustrated by the war-weariness of his Macedonians.

Alexander used the services of the compliant King Ambhi to support his logistics train, when he attacked the defiant kingdom of Porus, and Porus and Ambhi together were charged with the rearguard as the king himself went down the Indus towards the sea, crushing all opposition in his path as he marched.

The Bactrian Greeks followed. This general region was definitely within their sphere of control, and the term Gandhara sculpture started with their very Hellenistic statues of the Buddha. Note that there was no continuity in any administration between Bactrian Greek times and earlier Macedonian, Persian and the intermediate native principalities, such as Ambhi's Taxila and Puru's little kingdom.

The Kushanas were NOT the next. The next rulers were the Scythians and they were followed by the Parthians, and then by the Tocharians, converted during their years on the steppe into first the Chinese-named Yueh-chi, the Moon Clan, then into the exact Tocharian equivalent, the Kushana. This, as already pointed out, was a tribe of red-headed European language speaking horsemen from the Tarim Basin. There was no connection between them and what was earlier known as Gandhara.

I could go on and on. In sum, there was no continuous political entity called Gandhara.

heheh idiot ...it was name of Afghanistan area Gandhar(Kandahar) in ancient Hindu Kingdom During Mahabharata and Ancient India . but with foreign invasion Original people got pushed in main land of India and your half male ancestors destroyed Civilization from face of that part....

Less of the bad language, please. He took the trouble of looking up the sources and producing them. Let us respect the genuine effort made.

lol

So far i know indians are more ruled by foriegn than pakistan.could be that you guys are the real product of foreign invasions?

NOTE:by indian i typically here mean only Hindus excluding even the buddhist people

Please do not even get me started on dissecting this oddity.

Oh genius.

Than why the main cities of Pakistan civilization or in india known as gandhara civilization were peshawar and taxila?why it was majority in Present Day Pakistan

During partition people that migrated to pakistan are known as mahajir and they are not more than 5millions of total pakistna population today

So Pakistan even before partition.i mean majority of pakistani lived in the same region

which proves that pakistanis are not only the indigenous people of Gandhara civilization(pashtoons and baloch) while the indus civilization as well(Pakistani punjabi and Sindhi)

Both of these civilizations has no far far relation with india..

And this also prove that indians and pakistan were never same peopple.we from start were different race.we share nothing in common..

the language and few similarities clothers and cuisine are because after foriegn invaders we were merge together and living together for some odd 2000 years.

but again this doesnt mean pakistanis has origin in indians or related to indians

both are differnet races from the history point of view

<groan>

Were you trying to establish a record of the number of lunatic assertions made in one single post on PDF? you most probably have succeeded.

 

[Lavosh1]

Oh genius.

Than why the main cities of Pakistan civilization or in india known as gandhara civilization were peshawar and taxila?why it was majority in Present Day Pakistan

During partition people that migrated to pakistan are known as mahajir and they are not more than 5millions of total pakistna population today

So Pakistan even before partition.i mean majority of pakistani lived in the same region

which proves that pakistanis are not only the indigenous people of Gandhara civilization(pashtoons and baloch) while the indus civilization as well(Pakistani punjabi and Sindhi)

Both of these civilizations has no far far relation with india..

And this also prove that indians and pakistan were never same peopple.we from start were different race.we share nothing in common..

the language and few similarities clothers and cuisine are because after foriegn invaders we were merge together and living together for some odd 2000 years.

but again this doesnt mean pakistanis has origin in indians or related to indians

both are differnet races from the history point of view

Word "Gandhar" itself from Hindu scriptures.

hehehe....Gandhara was Kingdom In Afghanistan which had Borders up to "Takshashila" Kingdom not Taxila(which is it today) which was Famous "HINDU" University of ancient times where Hindus and Buddhist used to study .

But Barbarian Muslims / knowledge Enemies destroyed these ancient cities destroyed civilization due invasion huge amount of people migrated in main land India...Many converted/ killed / raped / universities burnt .

King of Hastniapur (delhi) in Mahabharata had Wife which was princess of Gandhar ..... Todays ,Afghan and pak is product of that barbaric invasion which destroyed our culture form that land.

This how base of Pakistan came into existence .......

 

[Lavosh1]

but again this doesnt mean pakistanis has origin in indians or related to indians

both are differnet races from the history point of view

self delete.........

 

[MadDog]

Another professor of history.

What Ghandara are you talking about? There were Bactrian Greek kingdoms who started the sculpture now known as the Gandhara school: Greek, not Pakistani, nobody had dreamt of the name then.

Kushuns? If you want to filch others' history, at least get your details correct. The 'Kushun', as you call them, were Tocharians of European kinship, speaking a language closer to European languages than to Indo-Iranian languages, and red-headed, trouser-wearing horsemen who were driven out of their desert oases and cities by the Hiung Nu. These were from the Tarim Basin, nothing to do with Pakistan.

The Mughals had nothing to do with the present territory of Pakistan to begin with. They were princes of Samarkand, who were dispossessed by Shaibani Khan and his Uzbeg, and made a home for themselves in Kabul. It was from Kabul that they attacked Delhi, defeated Ibrahim Lodi, and became rulers of north India, ranging down to the east up to present day Faizabad. Not to the west, but equally to east and west.

It is painful to read these half-digested bits of history from these half-digested scholars.

Dude what you are saying is absolutely wrong....Gandhara civilization was absolutely a 5000 year old native civilization of Norther Punjab, Khyber Pukhtunkhwa and Eastern Afghanistan....it was a Buddhist Civilization..how on earth was it Greek...and the Kushans, Parthians...even Aryans might be invaders at that time but they settled and are the ancestors of present day people of Indus.

As far as the Mughals are concerned I agree they were foreigners..but had a significant cultural impact on this region.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Dude what you are saying is absolutely wrong....Gandhara civilization was absolutely a 5000 year old native civilization of Norther Punjab, Khyber Pukhtunkhwa and Eastern Afghanistan....it was a Buddhist Civilization..how on earth was it Greek...and the Kushans, Parthians...even Aryans might be invaders at that time but they settled and are the ancestors of present day people of Indus.

As far as the Mughals are concerned I agree they were foreigners..but had a significant cultural impact on this region.

Don"t call me Dude.

There was no separate civilisation in Gandhara 5,000 years old; only Neolithic settlements. The civilisation that flourished between 3500 BC and 1300 BC, that's between 5,500 and 3,500 years ago, was the Indus Valley Civilisation, not the Gandhara. It disappeared without a trace sometime around 1300 BC, and was re-discovered accidentally in the 20th century.

The Buddha was preaching some time around 600 BC; there was no Buddhist civilisation before that, or later; there was Indian civilisation which followed the Buddhist religion, parallel to the Puranic Hinduism of the times.

Since you are evidently not familiar with the period, read The Greeks in Bactria and India, by W. W. Tarn. It was the Greeks who first influenced the depiction of the Buddha as a human figure. That is why early Gandhara sculpture, in fact, Gandhara School sculpture so closely resembles Greek (Hellenistic) statuary.

The point about the Kushanas, the Parthians before them, the Scythians and Aryans before them, was that there was NO continuous Gandhara entity. The name itself dates back to sometime around 900 BC, long after the Indus Valley Civilisation, which was finished by around 1500 or latest by 1300 BC, and long before the Scythians' incursion. The name is from one of the sixteen mahajanapadas which constituted north India, and ended with Vanga and Anga in the east.

This is what your closest source, Auntie Wiki, says about Gandhara:

[edit]Gandhara

Main article: Gandhara
The wool of the Gandharis is referred to in the Rigveda. Panjab. The Gandharas and their king figure prominently as strong allies of the Kurus against the Pandavas in the Mahabharata war. The Gandharas were a furious people, well-trained in the art of war. According to Puranic traditions, this Janapada was founded by Gandhara, son of Aruddha, a descendant of Yayati. The princes of this country are said to have come from the line of Druhyu who was a famous king of the Rigvedic period. The river Indus watered the lands of Gandhara. Taksashila and Pushkalavati, the two cities of this Mahajanapada, are said to have been named after Taksa and Pushkara, the two sons of Bharata, a prince of Ayodhya. According to Vayu Purana (II.36.107), the Gandharas were destroyed by Pramiti (aka Kalika) at the end of Kaliyuga. P&#257;&#7751;ini mentioned both the Vedic form Gandhari as well as the later form Gandhara in his Ashtadhyayi. The Gandhara kingdom sometimes also included Kashmira.[16] Hecataeus of Miletus (549-468) refers to Kaspapyros (Kasyapura i.e. Kashmira) as Gandharic city. According to Gandhara Jataka, at one time, Gandhara formed a part of the kingdom of Kashmir. The Jataka also gives another name Chandahara for Gandhara. Gandhara Mahajanapada of Buddhist traditions included territories of east Afghanistan, and north-west of the Panjab (modern districts of Peshawar (Purushapura) and Rawalpindi). Its capital was Takshasila (Prakrit Taxila). The Taxila University was a renowned center of learning in ancient times, where scholars from all over the world came to seek higher education. P&#257;&#7751;ini, the Indian genius of grammar and Kautiliya are the world renowned products of Taxila University. King Pukkusati or Pushkarasarin of Gandhara in the middle of the sixth century BC was the contemporary of king Bimbisara of Magadha. Gandhara was located on the grand northern high road (Uttarapatha) and was a centre of international commercial activities. It was an important channel of communication with ancient Iran and Central Asia. According to one school of scholars, the Gandharas and Kambojas were cognate people.[17][18][19] It is also contended that the Kurus, Kambojas, Gandharas and Bahlikas were cognate people and all had Iranian affinities.[20] According to Dr T. L. Shah, the Gandhara and Kamboja were nothing but two provinces of one empire and were located coterminously, hence influencing each other's language.[21] Naturally, they may have once been a cognate people.[22][23][24][25] Gandhara was often linked politically with the neighboring regions of Kashmir and Kamboja.[26]

More lessons after the 28th. I have a day job. And Webbie doesn't pay for these notes.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@MadDog, just a quick word: nothing personal or minatory about saying, "Don't call me Dude". I'm from a generation that doesn't handle these instant familiarities very well. Slightly rigid and stiff-necked, if you get what I mean.

On the other hand, there's a handle to my jug: use it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

A note to all the Pakistanis reading this: the good, the bad and those who look like me.

Pakistan exists from 1947. No need to justify it historically. So long as people are willing and happy to live in that nation, fly the flag, sing the anthem, work for it and its growth, and for the upliftment of fellow-citizens, there is nothing left to justify. No justification is needed. So it's a comparatively new nation. So what?

As far as the people living in there are concerned, there are all sorts: Baloch, Sindhi, Multani, Punjabi, Pashto, Mohajir, Mirpuris - the lot. Each of these have their own history, as a people speaking the same language. Some of them have states which flourished in the same areas, same geographical locations. All that heritage remains intact.

The people of Pakistan are also curators and guardians of an ancient civilisation, whose descendants are not clearly known. That is irrelevant; as long as Pakistan is willing to preserve and maintain these treasures which belong to Mankind, it's theirs. They don't have to show lineal descent, they don't have to show a civilisational connect, they don't have to do a thing. If somebody else claims it, let him (or her). To see the ruins, they have to buy a ticket. From Pakistan.

These "we are the descendants of" threads are so utterly boring.

P.S. Almost as boring as the "you are not the descendants of" threads. Equally false and unfounded. Waste of good drinking time.

 

[ANPP]

Dude what you are saying is absolutely wrong....Gandhara civilization was absolutely a 5000 year old native civilization of Norther Punjab, Khyber Pukhtunkhwa and Eastern Afghanistan....it was a Buddhist Civilization..how on earth was it Greek...and the Kushans, Parthians...even Aryans might be invaders at that time but they settled and are the ancestors of present day people of Indus.

As far as the Mughals are concerned I agree they were foreigners..but had a significant cultural impact on this region.

Really dude, upto my knowledge Boddhism is only 2500 year old AND there is only one religion which is 5000 years old that is Arya(Hindu) dhrame.

 

[MadDog]

@MadDog, just a quick word: nothing personal or minatory about saying, "Don't call me Dude". I'm from a generation that doesn't handle these instant familiarities very well. Slightly rigid and stiff-necked, if you get what I mean.

On the other hand, there's a handle to my jug: use it.

Ok no worries...my bad..apologies..if you didn't like it.