Analysis: PAF's Fighter Modernization Roadmap (Part-1)

[The Eagle]

4th Gen jet meet their end before 2030 all the 4 or 4 + and the design of JF-17 doesn't have capacity to go stealth config....new Jet will be build or J-31

Indeed there will be 5th gen plane but I just expressed about JFT in more blocks as stated by retd PAF personnel as well though newer blocks would be evolving as per newly introduced techs e.g F-16s throughout the blocks. IMO

 

[Maarkhoor]

@Quwa @The Eagle
Every jet program was designed to meet needs........................................JF-17 designed to meet goal of fulfilling the gap of retiring 3rd Gen jet a fourth or may be 4 + gen Jet...finished OK...
for next Gen we can't carry out with 4th Gen jet design why we would shy to produce new Gen J.V programs and Jets....

@Irfan Baloch
Can you help me out to make these guys understand....

 

[Maarkhoor]

@Quwa @The Eagle
Ok make it in this way...F-16 the most successful project OK the most....then why not the produce stealthy F-16 for 5th Gen role.....Tell me why....?????
Because whole airframe design is base on the ideology of 4th Gen role....so the JF-17....

 

[The Eagle]

@Quwa @The Eagle
Ok make it in this way...F-16 the most successful project OK the most....then why not the produce stealthy F-16 for 5th Gen role.....Tell me why....?????
Because whole airframe design is base on the ideology of 4th Gen role....so the JF-17....

Let me rephrase but in a detail here. (I am online through cellphone).

As you stated about F-16 so the same history I quoted as look how F-16 grown through it's block journey like from 1 to recent 60 a b c d v and still continue so with the same track it would be the case for JFT but I did not ever mention that JFT will be a 5th gen. Indeed FC-31 is eyed by PAF for 5th gen. For the ease, the growth track of JFT further blocks could be as F-16s lived. JFT will grow and blocks will evolve as per tech as available so the max would be like today's F-16 V is going to give a realtime pain to 4.5 gen IMO which is not a twin engines but EW, radar, BVR more advanced engine with acceleration and fuel consumption for range etc almost put it in the same class or a little less. This is how the JFT will grow so also will give us a baseline for further research and help participation in likes FC-31 as 5th gen In'sha'ALLAH or whatever is the best for Pakistan. The quote with respect to newer blocks of JFT was not stated as it would be 5th Gen but the blocks will come out as F-16 story.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Let me rephrase but in a detail here. (I am online through cellphone).

As you stated about F-16 so the same history I quoted as look how F-16 grown through it's block journey like from 1 to recent 60 a b c d v and still continue so with the same track it would be the case for JFT but I did not ever mention that JFT will be a 5th gen. Indeed FC-31 is eyed by PAF for 5th gen. For the ease, the growth track of JFT further blocks could be as F-16s lived. JFT will grow and blocks will evolve as per tech as available so the max would be like today's F-16 V is going to give a realtime pain to 4.5 gen IMO which is not a twin engines but EW, radar, BVR more advanced engine with acceleration and fuel consumption for range etc almost put it in the same class or a little less. This is how the JFT will grow so also will give us a baseline for further research and help participation in likes FC-31 as 5th gen In'sha'ALLAH or whatever is the best for Pakistan. The quote with respect to newer blocks of JFT was not stated as it would be 5th Gen but the blocks will come out as F-16 story.

In short .....just in short.....of al this....................................by the time JF-17 evolve to THAT level.......there will be no role left for F-16 ++++++++++++++++= version or the JF17's block 4............
from my side THE END.....
carry u r dreams...................
from me.....Khoon se likh kr deta houn.....no block after III and III dual seater ..............

regards,

 

[rockstar08]

As per your saying I can guess what you are assuming Sir

Just want to ask is that you who play with Photoshop....

Sir as I mentioned they will go for another indigenously produced 4.5 + or 5th Gen jet based on the experienced gained from JF-17 project..
Regards,


4th Gen jet meet their end before 2030 all the 4 or 4 + and the design of JF-17 doesn't have capacity to go stealth config....new Jet will be build or J-31

@Quwa what do you make out from the above Photoshop picture of Possible JF ?
is it possible to transform JF's Current Air frame in to something like that ?

 

[The Eagle]

In short .....just in short.....of al this....................................by the time JF-17 evolve to THAT level.......there will be no role left for F-16 ++++++++++++++++= version or the JF17's block 4............
from my side THE END.....
carry u r dreams...................
from me.....Khoon se likh kr deta houn.....no block after III and III dual seater ..............

regards,

Well JFT blocks up-to III are yet finalised so no doubt though the estimates about further blocks are only set to share the capability and flexibility of the air frame and all of JFT. If JFT wouldn't be introduced with any further blocks after III then I will have no issue or major concerns as top brass professionals knows better whether there should be or not. It is all about future so the best option is to wait for.

Baki khoon wala scene theek nahi bhai aap ne likha dia yahi kafi ha.

 

[Quwa]

@Quwa @The Eagle
Ok make it in this way...F-16 the most successful project OK the most....then why not the produce stealthy F-16 for 5th Gen role.....Tell me why....?????
Because whole airframe design is base on the ideology of 4th Gen role....so the JF-17....

Take the Super Hornet and Gripen NG as good examples of what can be possible for JF-17.

The PAF can enlarge and lighten the airframe, so it can house more powerful electronics inside and more weapons outside. It can also carry out some RCS reduction in the front-fuselage and nose, much like the Su-34 did relative to the Su-27/30. Besides that, the airframe can incorporate the latest in on-board electronics, such as a more powerful AESA radar, more built-in EW/ECM, etc.

Just because it isn't "stealth" doesn't mean the fighter is irrelevant, it can certainly be equipped to detect and neutralize stealth, it could even continue being a dense jamming platform, making it difficult for enemies to use radar-guided AAMs.

@Quwa what do you make out from the above Photoshop picture of Possible JF ?
is it possible to transform JF's Current Air frame in to something like that ?

I don't think that will happen. If you look at the Super Hornet and Gripen NG, you'll notice the fundamental design elements haven't changed. So a "future Thunder" would still mostly look like today's Thunder, but there will be obvious changes, e.g. a larger and lighter airframe, CFTs, etc.

 

[Quwa]

retired Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Group Captain Sultan Hali, offered a number of interesting insights into the PAF’s apparent modernization roadmap, particularly with regards to its fighter fleet. This analysis will touch upon a few key points raised in the episode (which also included retired Air Marshals Shahid Lateef and Yousuf Chaudhry), especially in regards to the PAF’s rationale for pursuing the F-16 as well as its reluctance to induct a comparable alternative, such as the Chengdu FC-20 (i.e. J-10).

A very long artical with nothing new in it as usual paf future plans jf17 and f16 f16 f16
The author says j10 brings extra capbility to paf better radar avionics pay load range etc etc but its not significant whats is significant sir then?an aircraft firing laser beams ?
The reason is simple paf mindset thinks anything anerican is better than anything chineese its as simple is that

This was explained in the article.

The reasoning is quite simple. If the PAF were to procure the J-10, it would simply be acquiring another medium-weight fighter. In other words, its inclusion does not necessarily add to the PAF’s existing capabilities, at least in a significant enough way to warrant the induction of an entirely new platform. Yes, the J-10 would offer additional range, payload, and capability boosts (e.g. radar output) compared to the JF-17, but are these advantages significant enough to warrant the costs of introducing a completely new maintenance channel, especially for what will inevitably be a relatively small number of aircraft (i.e. two squadrons)? It will not.

To the PAF adding J-10 would basically be like adding Chinese-built F-16s, but for a higher cost than just buying used American F-16s. And for what? An F-16-type plane?

The PAF is basically deciding to spend a comparatively less amount of money on a handful of new F-16s and some more used F-16s, with the rest going into JF-17.

 

[GoldenRatio1618]

After reading article it looks like PAF is spending its saving on some secret futuristic fighter project with China or turkey and they will reveal it in between 2020 to 2025 with stealthy design front line fighting machine..

 

[Quwa]

After reading article it looks like PAF is spending its saving on some secret futuristic fighter project with China or turkey and they will reveal it in between 2020 to 2025 with stealthy design front line fighting machine..

Not necessarily 'secret.' The PAF could just be saving its money for joining the FC-31 program with AVIC/SAC. If successful, the FC-31 could very well replace the F-16s. Twin-engine, internal weapons bay, tight sensor fusion with active and passive systems, stealth or low-observable design, potentially TVC and supercruise...

 

[SQ8]

but we can make our chaddar a little bigger , as we are now stretching our legs in terms of Economy ..
and hope we do, cause we maybe need it

How much?
Considering that we have massive international debt servicing to do, have massive internal circular debt to try and stave off for a while.. then have the current regular payments for the loans of JF-17. ZDK, Erieye, and so on.

 

[Paksanity]

How much?
Considering that we have massive international debt servicing to do, have massive internal circular debt to try and stave off for a while.. then have the current regular payments for the loans of JF-17. ZDK, Erieye, and so on.

And not to mention dropping exports, increasing import - export imbalance, increasing debts, shrinking industrial production and shutting down of industrial units. Did I mention sink holes PIA, railways, steel mill and NEPRA?

 

[Blue Marlin]

And not to mention dropping exports, increasing import - export imbalance, increasing debts, shrinking industrial production and shutting down of industrial units. Did I mention sink holes PIA, railways, steel mill and NEPRA?

well yes it does make sense, the gap of not buying anything would be used to payoff the debts. i read the zd3's were not needed as the erieye was more capable, but were purchased as musharaf wanted to further improve ties with china?
$275 million down the drain.
also what you said about falling export and climbing debts and imports. not to forget expensive qatari lng.

 

[SQ8]

well yes it does make sense, the gap of not buying anything would be used to payoff the debts. i read the zd3's were not needed as the erieye was more capable, but were purchased as musharaf wanted to further improve ties with china?
$275 million down the drain.
also what you said about falling export and climbing debts and imports. not to forget expensive qatari lng.

For once though, the general's self interests did pay certain dividends as the ZDK has turned out be actually more capable than the Erieye(in service with the PAF) in certain environments and definitely in range.