Analysis: PAF's Fighter Modernization Roadmap (Part-1)

[Quwa]

Thanks for a well written info on future plans of PAF.
PAF in my humble opinion is selling us dreams and fairy tales.They should've gone for J 10s in 2005-06 by know we would be close to 50 plus J10s with option of 2 squadrons available in case of emergency.Good luck PAF in doing the same with F 16s and JF 17s. We could've been taking delivery of 8 units jf 17 block 2 or 3 and 4 to 6 units J 10s per year therefore filling 2 holes and f16s as a bonus. Now with this mindset we would be looking at 70 odd J10s, 70 odd JF 17 block 2/3 and 90 odd F 16s by 2020. With the way things are going i think we will be looking at maybe 100 JF17s and 100 F16ss leaving us short of ateast 3 squadrons of potent war machines. F16s and more f16s and more f16s wow. Are we planning on fighting enemy airforce on our skies?

It'll be 100 F-16s and 150 JF-17s by 2020, with F-7PG and remnant Mirage ROSE.

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

It'll be 100 F-16s and 150 JF-17s by 2020, with F-7PG and remnant Mirage ROSE.

i hope and pray that they can achieve 150 mark without anymore hiccups.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Firstly a nice article was quite enjoyable to read , thank you for the poster for this wonderful find.

Well my humble opinion on the Issue of F16 is as follow

The Addition of 8 New jets is done lets move on

The question is should we expand the fleet from current size of 84 (After arrival of new jets) or should we opt for new F16.

Well purchase of the F16 Block A/B, I suppose is not a bad idea provided we can do a MLU upgrade on these.
The advantage of brand new planes is obviously 10 years guaranteed life. Comparatively the MLU planes perhaps have more wear and tear on them.

The article raised a interesting point , is it true that MLU plane price is same as brand new F16 C/D price?
I would like to assume that is not the case, can someone elaborate ? if its true or not

Next , with JF17 thunder , Block 3 , obviously we will get what ever we need at our own terms. So a great news.

• The EDS is a good program which Pakistan has access to so it a certain plus point same with FMS program. The EDS just do not have any past mention of large stash of F16 normally it is just 1-2 planes at time
  
• Obviously there is no question about it

What do honorable folks at the form feel about idea of buying Brand new vs F16 A/B and then MLU ?

Also when Pakistan buys a Jet plane doe these planes not come with default # of weapons
i.e base # of missiles and bombs etc as part of the plane ?


For EDS program I have not seen many F16 offered in their Data base, most likely our F16 will have to come from New purchase , or from Europe


Having more AMRAM missiles is certainly needed specially for 80-100 planes


For futrue F16 needs we could buy second half 18-36 more from pool of following Falcons

• Valenzuela has 12 F16 (A/B)
• Norway 45 F16 (A)
• Italy 34 F16 A/B
  
• USA 976 , F16 (800 C), (154 D) models

Or we can just buy brand new from Company

• Order 40 planes D model

 

[tarrar]

It is hard to understand that why PAF is so touchy towards F16's, once US impose sanctions then there will be no spare parts & if the rumors of kill switches on F16's are true then that's double problem for PAF. JF17, is becoming a very good aircraft as per the needs of PAF but JF17 is the solution for everything. PAF needs at least one long range air to air fighter but it seems like they are not interested after reading this post.

J10 would had been a good choice for replacing dying F7 & Mirages but J10 apparently is out of the picture. J31 is not ready yet & it will take a lot of time before official induction is announced & then PAF will run trials on it & then we will get to know how good or bad the aircraft really is.

So, I only see problems for PAF.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well I think if we get 30 F16 Block C/D then we can certainly retire more Mirages , upgrading the F16 A/B models is quite lumber some. Just seems better investment to buy brand new.

I am sure there is no issue getting spare for parts from USA (Engines / parts etc)
It is well known fact that we need to retire 200 older mirages

• Thunder Block 3 , will be superb platform upgrade, once we hit Block 3 credentials. That has no doubt what so ever

However the F16 C/D also offer a valid choice for our needs for next 10-15 years

30 New F16 C/D and 25 Block 2 will do just fine to help modernize our Airforce's need

I just don't see why we should go in direction of Block A/B route

Ab John kerry bhala Jhoot kiyon bole ?

Ab siruf F16 C/D mang rahein hain , koi stealth plane to nahi request ker rahe?

30-40 Planes ka order de daina chahiye, takaluf ki koi gunjaish nahi hai


Regardless of F16 , we all know Block III is the future workhorse

BRAND NEW JET SMELL

 

[Tipu7]

For futrue F16 needs we could buy second half 18-36 more from pool of following Falcons

• Valenzuela has 12 F16 (A/B)
• Norway 45 F16 (A)
• Italy 34 F16 A/B
  
• USA 976 , F16 (800 C), (154 D) models

No. Italy no longer have any F16.
United States will also be our source for surplus 2nd hand F16 once F35 program take few major kicks.

Can you gentlemen kindly tell me that what is the role of FC-31 and if PAF inducts it(IN SAH ALLAH) then for what purpose will PAF use it for.
@Horus @Quwa @Bratva @araz @HRK @WebMaster @Tipu7 @The Eagle @hussain0216

Depends in which direction FC31 take steps.
If it become a Joint Production aircraft like jf31 then Pakistan will update this aircraft with European/South African avionics and weapon packages. Most probably it will be used for Deep Strike Role.

 

[mingle]

aray yarr ...... koi kehta kun nahi m2k ai ga ......

And what do you suggest we replace them with, Air tractors?

well UAE using air tractors in yemen .How long more yemen thing will continue ?

It'll be 100 F-16s and 150 JF-17s by 2020, with F-7PG and remnant Mirage ROSE.

Cant catch up numbers total requirement according to AC yousaf ch is around 400 aircrafts .

It is hard to understand that why PAF is so touchy towards F16's, once US impose sanctions then there will be no spare parts & if the rumors of kill switches on F16's are true then that's double problem for PAF. JF17, is becoming a very good aircraft as per the needs of PAF but JF17 is the solution for everything. PAF needs at least one long range air to air fighter but it seems like they are not interested after reading this post.

J10 would had been a good choice for replacing dying F7 & Mirages but J10 apparently is out of the picture. J31 is not ready yet & it will take a lot of time before official induction is announced & then PAF will run trials on it & then we will get to know how good or bad the aircraft really is.

So, I only see problems for PAF.

J 10 induction gonna cast money its better to continue F16 cycle very economical .

No. Italy no longer have any F16.
United States will also be our source for surplus 2nd hand F16 once F35 program take few major kicks.




Depends in which direction FC31 take steps.
If it become a Joint Production aircraft like jf31 then Pakistan will update this aircraft with European/South African avionics and weapon packages. Most probably it will be used for Deep Strike Role.

Italy never had F16s it were US f 16 s stationed there operated by US airforce paid by italy .

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The mirages I am afraid beyond 2018 won't offer much apart from ground based bombardment role , the technological gap , would be visible with Mirage vs the 4.5 generation planes. In a battle they would only be providing support role to Thunders / F16's

F16 C/D + Block 3 : Thunders , offer a valuable addition to Pakistan Air force.

• Considering we have 150 Mirages
• Considering we have 150 F7P

Just too many planes that have reached their age

Either we need a third production line for JF17 thunder or

We really need a Third platform , that can give a Technological advancement to our fleet

I would like to imagine that a 3rd Production line for JF17 Thunder would be wise choice due to the need to replace almost 300 planes in our inventory

 

[fatman17]

Only F16s and JF17s in the near to medium term. Rest is mere speculation.

 

[barbarosa]

I think PAF is waiting for miracles.

 

[The Eagle]

Can you gentlemen kindly tell me that what is the role of FC-31 and if PAF inducts it(IN SAH ALLAH) then for what purpose will PAF use it for.
@Horus @Quwa @Bratva @araz @HRK @WebMaster @Tipu7 @The Eagle @hussain0216

In my short knowledge, as the FC-31 is still under development so the specifications are to be as estimated. To me it has to be more like deep strike being low observable especially as Naval strike aircraft or for comparison by role (not by specs and tech) it is going to be multi-role fighter as F-35 but all depends how PAF want it to be if interested. However, as other senior members have also quoted somewhere in PDF that avionics of J-20 could be adopted as well as western but it is all about future.

 

[Wolf]

F16 aspirants only mention what if usa impose sanctions?

 

[barbarosa]

F16 aspirants only mention what if usa impose sanctions?

Then we will watching toward China, ummah and brothers.

 

[salman-1]

Unless prototype 2 of FC-31 flies and succeeds thier is no true picture But it was announced by chinese that all experience earned from J-20 will be utilized on FC-31 to make it more successful for export. To date up till 15-20 prototypes have been built of J-20 once the final approach is made on a conclusive experience and technology same tech will be used on a scale down level for FC-31, Like KLJ-10 scale down is KLJ-7 for JF-17's. Although progress is on the way but chinese never reveal it on the way. They display it when completed, Prototype 2 might be their for testing nobody knows

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Still, it will take some time to add new 5th generation technology as only available option F 31/J 31 is in trial phase.

PAF is not waiting for miracles but trying to adopt self reliance policy that is really good thing.We must focus on block 3 to make JF 17 a real opponent against adversary fighter class plane such as Rafael.

Meanwhile, adding more F16 and some SU 35 would be nice progress.