Analysis: China vs India — Competition of Civilisations

[roadrunner]

This is a complete over simplified. And its origins is all over India from South to North Northwest.

Nope. India as in Bharat contributed virtually nothing to Mahayana Buddhism.

Mahayana Buddhism flourished in Gandhara. Look this up.

Mahayana Buddhism was formally created during the 4th Buddhist Council by Emperor Kanishka who had nothing (zero) to do with modern India. It was here that Mahayana Buddhism split from Nikaya Buddhism. Look this up.

Emperor Kanishka spoke an Eastern Iranic dialect (hint) which would put him somewhere in Afghanistan/Pakistan.

The 4th Buddhist Council took place in Gandhara which is Afghanistan/Pakistan, not India.

Your references do state that "The philosopher/monk Nagarjuna is sometimes said to be the founder of the Mahayana, along with such early figures as Asanga and Vasubandhu, although each of these figures actually founded sub-schools within the early Mahayana; in reality there is no single founder of the tradition."

Asanaga and Vasubandhu were Gandharan and did not live in India. Probably they were from Peshawar. Nagarjuna is "sometimes" said to be the founder of Mahayana because he is the only connection India has in order to steal Gandhara's history. You will want proof of course. Here it is. Nagarjuna lived around 150CE-250CE. The fourth Buddhist Council in Gandhara was held in 78CE. If you can count, you will know that Nagarjuna could not have been a founder of Mahayana Buddhism. It is simply Indians stealing the history of others because you have none (or nothing of note).

Here is a better link, that you can actually learn something about Mahayana Buddhism from historians. Not from a "top Pakistani envoy in Seoul" like in your link.

Mahayana Buddhism Origins

Mahayana Buddhism Origins, Mahayana Buddhism History, Mahayana Buddhism Beliefs

One of its earliest founders is from Southern India, period.

see above. I look forward to seeing you dispute these irrefutable facts.

 

[roadrunner]

Yes..yes.. they even applied for a Patent long time back (some thousands of years back) on behalf of the Pakistan / Afghanistan government then.

The UN or the Patency registration organisation didnt approve , i guess.

It is widely known fact *though unknown to Indians, that Sanskrit did not originate in India (read bharat here) itself.

 

[Riaz Mohammed]

Self delete

 

[Riaz Mohammed]

It is widely known fact *though unknown to Indians, that Sanskrit did not originate in India (read bharat here) itself.

widely known to who?! Pakistanis?! In which case, it hardly matters. Im fine with you believing whatever you want so long as Google search and university portal searches on Sanskrit identifies India as its origin.

 

[roadrunner]

India is a vague term sometimes used by orientalists to refer to the subcontinent, sometimes used to refer to a nation.

However Sanskrit did not originate in India as in Bharat. This is fact in any neutral research piece.

 

[Riaz Mohammed]

India is a vague term sometimes used by orientalists to refer to the subcontinent, sometimes used to refer to a nation.

However Sanskrit did not originate in India as in Bharat. This is fact in any neutral research piece.

LOL! How many universities across the world actually claim Sanskrit originated in Pakistan?! Pakistani universities don't count. India is India and always have been, India. Direct me to one credible varsity which teaches your POV?! Even your "chinese brothers" teach our point of view when it comes to the subcontinent. Pakistan has no credibility except in Pakistan.

 

[roadrunner]

LOL! How many universities across the world actually claim Sanskrit originated in Pakistan?! Pakistani universities don't count. India is India and always have been, India. Direct me to one credible varsity which teaches your POV?! Even your "chinese brothers" teach our point of view when it comes to the subcontinent. Pakistan has no credibility except in Pakistan.

Panini would be the obvious example to disprove these teachings you allege. And many universities do teach it (not the Indian version).

 

[EjazR]

Bharat is not in rich in culture, Its culture comes from central asian muslim marauders who ruled bhartis for 1000 years. Much of the Hindustani music, language, and culture has Muslim roots. Bharti culture is influenced by Islamic culture.
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Bharat's the one with the Pakistan and Islam/Muslim complex!
It is a schizophrenic state

Bharat is always trying to ape somebody, first Muslims and now Americans
Yet these hindus bigots have audacity to curse their muslim masters who have given so much to Bharat. Just look at these BJP goons (anti muslim terrorists party), they hold immense hatred for muslims yet you will always see (most of them) them in muslim dress (shalwar kamiz)
You should not be praising bharat for all these achievements since muslim are responsible for giving them so much.

Since Pakistan is the successor state to Mughal empire, Pakistan deserves this credit for muslim achievemnts

What a and bull story is this? The core of the Mughal empire was from Delhi to Agra and apart from Lahore, there is no city of the Mughal dynasty in presentday Pakistan.

Infact, the Punjabis alongwith the Afghans regularly went to war against the Mughal empire which was allied with the Rajputs of Rajasthan. Again in the revolt of 1857 when the Mughal emperor was the face of the first war of indepedance against the British. It was the Punjabi and Pathan soldiers from presentday Pakistan that helped the British in finishing of the Mughal empire and crushing the rebellion.

I don't need to mention that Urdu language history is again basically centered around Delhi, Luckhnow and Hyderabad.

And of course I don't need to mention that there is a large leagacy of IndianMuslim culture and more importantly Indian culture on top of it. This is the idea of multiculturalism. The Taj Mahal may have been comissioned by a muslim ruler but all Indian regardless of being Hindu or Muslim are proud of it. And although the Brihadeeswarar Temple in Tamil Nadu was built by a Shivaite Hindu King, all Indians regardless of being Hindu or Muslim can recognize and appreciate its beauty too.

You need to come out of this inferiority complex and realize that the best that can be done is to share the historical legacy with India because after all India is the closest country that Pakistan shares its culture and history with and this stands true even today.

 

[praveen]

most pakistanis don't know the fact that the rajputs were the sword arm of the mughal empire both generals and soldiers .A rajput soldier was cheap ,effective and a deadly warrior

 

[ashokdeiva]

RoadRunner has a lot of hatred for INDIA, that is depicted in each of his post so far. This guy is for sure brainwashed as the PAK media brainwashed its people saying they were winning the 1971 war when actually the PAK forces surrendered to INDIA. I read from a article that some of the PAK educational system teaches very bad things about INDIA, in its history lessons. RoadRunner is one such example, he is ill educated about history and facts.
RoadRunner is also an example for being the odd man out.

 

[zzebie]

RoadRunner has a lot of hatred for INDIA, that is depicted in each of his post so far. This guy is for sure brainwashed as the PAK media brainwashed its people saying they were winning the 1971 war when actually the PAK forces surrendered to INDIA. I read from a article that some of the PAK educational system teaches very bad things about INDIA, in its history lessons. RoadRunner is one such example, he is ill educated about history and facts.
RoadRunner is also an example for being the odd man out.

It is difficult to expect sincerity in explanations or discussions when a bias attitude is involved. It is true for anyone.

One interesting thing i have always seen is people have forgotten Bimbisara, who was the first emperor to actually embrace Buddhism and allow for it to be preached in Magadha, modern day Bihar. This led to the subsequent spreading of Buddhism in different parts of the world including Gandhara. otherwise who knows what course Buddhism might have taken.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

We use hard tactics against minority separatists. This is far nicer than how the US treated blacks and mexicans in the 60's, or how Indian Army treats Kashmiris today. Han protesters are usually granted what they want. The difference between Chinese and Indian protesters is in China the protesters usually win while in India nothing changes.

China yields to protests when stability matters - CNN.com

You dont seem to know much about how we deal with Kashmiris . In our system of governance , we allocate funds & grants for development in Kashmir up and over what we give for many other mainstream states like Bihar , the North East etc ...
Also accountability in Kashmir for police , paramilitary is one of the strongest with the CM himself holding special judicial probes into any suspected wrong doing .

Understand this given the volatile situation there , and terrorist activity against the forces . We operate using bare minimum force . and protests there can turn seriously ugly , with stone pelting , rioting , property burning etc.


This is faaar nicer than what Pakistan is currently doing in FATA and SWAT , and the downside of this approach is that several troopers are seriously injured , paralized or even killed in their attempt to keep things humane .


Its why I am always for any tactic used by any country which is effective in restoring peace , even if it be harsh and strong-arm .


How we treat protestors in diff countries can be seen from many conflicting perspectives , To be fair to us all , they are all fairly effective within our respective forms of govt - be it India or China and thats all that matters really . Hence my point .

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

India is a vague term sometimes used by orientalists to refer to the subcontinent, sometimes used to refer to a nation.

However Sanskrit did not originate in India as in Bharat. This is fact in any neutral research piece.

Should these points be properly debated ...it would run into many pages .

Since you make these "claims " in the first place , why dont you begin by providing "neutral sources" for them ?

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

Panini would be the obvious example to disprove these teachings you allege. And many universities do teach it (not the Indian version).

Just because Panini lived in present day Afghanistan- Pakistan region of Gandhar does not automatically make Sanskrit a language of present day Pakistanis or Afghans . Considering demographic changes , ancient Indian traditions etc etc - It will still remain an integral part of Indian linguistic tradition .

 

[Water Car Engineer]

@Roadrunner

The 4th Buddhist Council took place in Gandhara which is Afghanistan/Pakistan, not India.

Did you at least try to google up "4th Buddhist council" before you said it took place in Gandhara?

It took place in two different places, one in Kashmir or Jalandhar, Punjab the other Sri Lanka not Gandhara.

Mahayana Buddhism was formally created during the 4th Buddhist Council by Emperor Kanishka who had nothing (zero) to do with modern India. It was here that Mahayana Buddhism split from Nikaya Buddhism. Look this up.

Nothing really? Do you know in the 4th council Kanishka gathered 500 monks headed partly by King Vasumitra from eastern India? This was from ALL OVER INDIA. From South to North East to West had a contribution..

Fourth Buddhist council - The Dhamma Encyclopedia


Here read up on the 4th council before you talk about it. And tell me where it says Mahayana Buddhism was created there. Its probably much older.

"The Mahayana tradition based some of its scriptures on (refutations of) the Sarvastivadin Adhidharma texts, which were systematized at this council."

Also tell me where it says it split from Nikaya Buddhism.

What are you talking about?!

If you can count, you will know that Nagarjuna could not have been a founder of Mahayana Buddhism.

You are saying dumb things like how India has nothing to do with this sect of Buddhism, I just named one its EARLIEST founders from the tip of India. You understand?